Debates of October 26, 2004 (day 28)

Mr. Speaker, this afternoon, I would like to announce to the House that I have proclaimed today, Tuesday, October 26, 2004, as National Students Against Impaired Driving Day.

---Applause

This will be the sixth annual National Students Against Impaired Driving Day in which student organizations at more than 400 schools from every province and territory will participate. This national day of action aims to raise awareness of, and to prevent, impaired driving. In making this proclamation, the Government of the Northwest Territories conveys its support for community-minded youth groups that want to draw attention to the needless tragedies caused by impaired driving.

On Wednesday, October 6, 2004, the Great Hall of this Legislative Assembly witnessed the kickoff of the Department of Transportation’s Strategy to Reduce Impaired Driving initiative, STRID. It should be noted that Yellowknife’s St. Patrick High School Students Against Drinking and Driving, SADD, under the leadership of teacher/liaison Ms. Michelle Thoms, contributed to the legislative changes that will come into force December 1, 2004.

I would like to especially thank these students in addition to all the students in the NWT. Through their participation in SADD chapters, young adults of the North spread the important message to make the right choice not to drink and drive. I am encouraged by the longevity of the St. Patrick High School SADD chapter which will be celebrating the 10th anniversary in November during National Addictions Awareness Week. I would like to encourage all high schools in the Northwest Territories to be part of the SADD initiative.

Mr. Speaker, Tuesday, October 26, 2004, is a very important day. Today I would like to take the opportunity to ask every resident of the Northwest Territories to stand behind the commitment of the SADD students and their promise to educate their peers about this very important issue. These students will persuade drivers of every age

that drinking and driving is a bad idea. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to take a few minutes to recognize and honour those in our neighbourhoods and communities who are victims of sexual abuse and who are suffering silently. I would especially like to honour the stories of those who are victimized as children and let them know we, as a society, demand and accept nothing less than zero tolerance against any kind of violence, especially when it comes to sexual violence or violence of any kind against our young and innocent children.

Mr. Speaker, I don’t believe there is any task more important for people who sit around this room and for leaders in our communities than protecting our young children. When we fail in this regard, we, as adults and as public persons, all have to take our share of collective responsibility for that.

On this day I want to, in a very public way, send a private message to each and every one of the victims out there and say to them that it is never your fault when adults around you and adults you trust violate you physically, sexually, mentally, or in any way that makes you feel inadequate or makes you feel less than the perfect little person that you are. It is the adults who are to blame. I want to also say to them very loudly and clearly, Mr. Speaker, that we understand profoundly that it takes enormous strength and courage for any victim of child abuse and child sexual abuse to speak out about what was done to them. I want to tell them that they have the right to find their own time and place to tell their stories in ways that feel right to them whenever and however they are ready. We honour them for that.

Mr. Speaker, I want to further tell them that when they do speak up, we, as a society, will listen to them and that we will have laws and other mechanisms in place that will confirm, once again, that we, as a society, believe, practice and enforce the principle of zero tolerance against any violence, especially against our children. Even if, along the way, we find disappointments in telling their stories and having their stories taken seriously, and even when, at times, it is just too painful to keep speaking out, I want to tell them, please don’t be discouraged and please don’t stop because if you believe and we believe, you will eventually have your say and justice will be done because there are many adults who are here to help you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. In 1989, the Public Service Alliance of Canada filed an equal pay or work of equal value complaint against the Government of the Northwest Territories. The complaint alleged that the government had broken the Canadian Human Rights Act by paying men more than women in similar jobs. In June of 2002, three years later, this government, the Public Service Alliance of Canada, and the Canadian Human Rights Commission agreed on a deal for GNWT unionized employees regarding equal pay for work of equal value; an historic settlement, Mr. Speaker. It recognized that both former and current workers, regardless of gender, deserved the same pay for the jobs they performed.

The settlement recognized our obligation as an employer to compensate employees between 1989 and 1998, and resulted in a government-wide re-assessment of the value of many jobs our civil service performs. The settlement applies to both casual part-time, as well as full-time employees. An estimated $50 million was set aside for the total settlement. Some $23 million of that was distributed by the time of the settlement in June of 2002.

Mr. Speaker, a deadline of December 31st of this year, two months from now, was set for application for those who had not received their compensation. Our government undertook to contact those who had not applied and, understandably, some employees were not captured in the search process. The chance for them to find out if they are eligible runs out in two months. I am told there are still hundreds of names on the casual employee list who could be eligible.

Mr. Speaker, tremendous effort and expense went into this historic settlement. It seems many who should get their rightful share of the $50 million allocation have yet to file. I will be asking the Minister about our progress to date and what is being done to make a final call for the workers at the appropriate time today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House today to talk about the financial assistance First Nations students receive for their post-secondary education.

Mr. Speaker, starting in the year 2007, the Canadian Revenue Agency will be issuing the first T4-A tax forms to First Nations students who have received money from their bands for their college and university education. By doing this, the federal government is treating post-secondary student financial assistance as a taxable income and is demonstrating a lack of regard to First Nations treaty rights.

Mr. Speaker, this is a treaty right, despite the view of the Government of Canada that the post-secondary education assistance program is a social policy concern. This is evident from the precedent cases heard by the Supreme Court of Canada which supports the inclusion of student financial assistance for treaty Indians as a non-taxable income, which is the intent of treaties 1 through 11.

Mr. Speaker, the federal government is taxing the educational funding which struggling students have accessed, which include tuition fees, book allowance and living allowance, scholarships, bursaries and travel dollars that will result in well-rounded and well-educated people upon the completion of their studies, ultimately for the benefit of the country but especially for the benefit of the treaty aboriginals themselves and the people that they represent.

Mr. Speaker, I would like to reiterate that a responsible federal government looks after the regular people they are serving that make up this vast country. It is the responsibility of this government to lobby the federal government to not treat post-secondary education assistance programs for treaty Indians as a taxable income, and to remind them to recognize and respect this right that has already been established when the first treaty was signed and has already been proven in our Canadian justice system and perhaps focus their attention on taxing the faceless corporate giants who are always overlooked when federal taxation proponents rear their ugly heads as persons receiving what I consider negligible benefits given the conditions that they had to endure to be considered eligible for such a benefit. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am going to speak today about student financial assistance and some of the problems that constituents of mine and many others are having with the way in which policies and rules are enforced.

I have a constituent who ventured south to attend college for the first time last fall, after attending school here from kindergarten to Grade 12. This person was enrolled in six courses in the first semester. When they realized six courses were too much for them to handle, it was too late to withdraw. This young person gave it their best attempt and passed three of the six courses. They then went on and passed all of their courses in the second semester. This individual came back to Yellowknife for the summer to find employment and to earn some money to go back to school. What they found when they returned home was a letter from Education, Culture and Employment advising them that: a, they are on suspension for one year; and, b, they would have to pay back the money that was given to them from the previous year. Talk about a low blow for a student that is planning on going back to school.

Mr. Speaker, this young person who, as I said, has gone to school their entire career, kindergarten to Grade 12, in the North, is trying to get an education to come back to the North to be a productive citizen here. They can accept the fact that they are on suspension for SFA; that is one thing. Mr. Speaker, what they can’t accept is the fact that they are being ordered to repay these loans while still at school.

Mr. Speaker, I find it unacceptable that students are being asked to repay loans when they are still at school. This is unfair to these students who are really only trying to better themselves with an education. It is quite a nice gesture by the Government of the Northwest Territories to waive interest charges for the first year. However, a $5,500 bill to a student is too much for most to handle or for most to cope with. There has to be a better way to address concerns like the one I have mentioned, and other colleagues before me have spoken about the same concern. It is not a new problem. The appeals process goes by the book. I am suggesting that the department not be so rigid, Mr. Speaker, and show some flexibility and show some compassion to the students who find themselves in this unfortunate type of situation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today I would like to address an issue that has recently come to my attention through one of my constituents. This concern is related to medical travel benefits and coverage of these students while attending school outside of the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, for instance, say a student is studying in the south at a college or university recognized by NWT Student Financial Assistance as a qualifying educational institution. Assuming this student has submitted a signed temporary leave of absence form and has done everything necessary to remain insured with NWT health coverage, this student would receive basic insured benefits. Now, assume that this student finds it necessary to travel to a larger centre for medical treatment while attending school. Would they be covered under medical travel? The answer is no. A student does not receive medical travel benefits because the travel is not considered as originating inside the Northwest Territories.

Students are not travelling on vacation or just visiting outside the Territories for a week or two. A student is still a resident of the NWT. They retain their northern residence as their primary address and continue to use their NWT driver’s licence. Most students return to their home community for spring break, reading week, as well as Christmas vacation and the four months during summer and fall semester breaks.

In addition to all this, we also anticipate that a number of these students will return to the North to seek permanent employment. Most students rely on student financial assistance, part-time employment and, if they are fortunate enough, their parents are able to help them financially. But they are most likely not in a position to afford costly medical travel insurance. The burden of an unexpected medical trip could financially end their studies for that particular year or longer. Students who are able to attend one of our northern post-secondary facilities are not faced with this expense and I believe that all students deserve the government’s support, as they further their education, in the fair way.

I urge the Minister to review this portion of the medical travel policy with a view to granting medical travel protection to all NWT students while on temporary leave of absence from the Northwest Territories to attend school. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Hear! Hear!

---Applause

(English not provided)

Mr. Speaker, I wish to congratulate three long-term employees of Enbridge Pipelines NWT Ltd. It gives me great pleasure to recognize them publicly for 20 years of service. These individuals are Mr. Mark Gerlock, Mr. Steven Vandell, and Mr. Frank Villeneuve of Fort Simpson, NWT; gentlemen all.

Hear! Hear!

I had the great honour of working with these individuals for 17 years during my career with Enbridge Pipelines and they have offered much volunteerism to the communities in which they have worked. For that I honour them and thank them on behalf of the people and the communities that I represent. Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Honourable Charles Dent, Minister of Justice, was interviewed on CBC Radio on Monday, October 25, 2004, and spoke of changes to the way the legal aid services in the Beaufort-Delta would be delivered in Justice of the Peace Court. A local justice of the peace in Inuvik had expressed concern that the legal aid lawyers would no longer represent people in JP court.

Mr. Speaker, the Minister did say that the court workers would be available for clients at proceedings in Justice of the Peace Court. Now, I realize that proceedings in Justice of the Peace Court are usually not serious, but I am concerned that there may be circumstances where it would be appropriate for a person to be represented by a legal aid lawyer. For example, bail hearings can be conducted in JP court and I would think that this would be a circumstance where it would be appropriate to be represented by a lawyer. The question then becomes whether the court worker is able to recognize this need and arrange for proper representation.

I am also aware, Mr. Speaker, that some communities do not have a resident justice of the peace or court worker. In these cases, I would assume that a court worker would accompany a justice of the peace and would be available to help persons appearing before the court. The Minister also made it clear in his interview that the Legal Aid office in Inuvik was the only place in the NWT where a lawyer attended a JP court. I cannot understand the Minister’s reluctance to continue a practice in one region that is not offered to the rest of the residents in the NWT.

In closing, Mr. Speaker, I will have questions for the Minister of Justice at the appropriate time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today to talk about the waiting times in the emergency rooms and our clinics in Yellowknife. Mr. Speaker, I’ve heard that you can wait three to four days if you’re absolutely lucky to get into an appointment at a clinic. You’re lucky to find a spot. Normally you have to wait two, three, and even sometimes four weeks to get an appointment with the doctor in one of those clinics. That’s, of course, again, if you’re lucky enough to have a family doctor. Mr. Speaker, at this time, clinics offer you suggestions, if it’s a high priority, to march on down to the emergency room, which people do. But, Mr. Speaker, I know even from my own experience, but my constituents are complaining that the emergency room is more like an endurance contest to be able to survive waiting hours on end.

So I can say this from personal experience. But do you know what, Mr. Speaker? There are many people who talk about sitting there for six and eight hours and more just to receive basic care. I’ve even heard, through my own research, that in Vancouver you can probably get faster service through the emergency room than we do in the NWT. Mr. Speaker, one of the sad things is that we sometimes forget that the waiting in the emergency room just doesn’t end there. You’re waiting in the waiting room, then you get moved into the examining room and wait even longer.

Mr. Speaker, the problem as I see it is that you could get 100 nursing staff there and that would not solve the problem. The problem is the shortage of doctors in that emergency room making this happen. Mr. Speaker, the way our system is designed, a doctor needs to diagnose your ailment before they can allow the nurses to go ahead and do the treatment. That’s the real problem. People are waiting there in dire circumstances for hours on end to be seen. Mr. Speaker, some of those chairs -- and I can speak from personal experience -- feel more like milk crates as you’re sitting on them and I’d like to see a supplementary appropriation someday for lazyboys for the amount of time we’re making people wait there. Six and eight hours is truly unfair and unreasonable, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. Speaker, the real emergency is we don’t have enough doctors in that emergency room. What would the cost be to offer that service? Mr. Speaker, I have no doubt in my mind that two to three people waiting there hours on end is equivalent to the cost of the service of having a doctor there in real dollars. So I guess I ask, what is the cost of not having more doctors in that emergency room?

Mr. Speaker, may I seek unanimous consent at this time to finish my Member’s statement?

The Member is seeking unanimous consent to conclude his statement. Are there any nays? There are no nays. Mr. Hawkins, you may conclude your statement.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think it’s a real crisis because real people mean real money and they are just sitting there. That’s real time lost to both our government, as well as to our world out there. Mr. Speaker, if someone gets tired of waiting after three, four, five hours…I mean, there are priorities and people understand that, but you have to sign a waiver to leave the hospital now. So people do get exhausted and are taking their kids home because they just cannot sit there.

Mr. Speaker, I will have questions later for the Minister, but there are just some points I want to raise in closing. This should be a high priority, not a low priority. What do we need to happen for those low priority people who sit out there for six hours? Do we have to wait until they become a low priority moving to a high priority? Then it won’t be a news story, it will be a real emergency. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, gone are the days of the government bringing professionals into our smaller communities, putting them in housing units, pay for their living and working in the North by flying them out on vacation trips and rewarding them for long-time service by keeping them in the communities for a number of years. Mr. Speaker, in Tulita and Sahtu, housing is a crisis for our communities. Schools are losing about 50 percent or more teachers every year. Mr. Speaker, to be a veteran teacher in the school in the Sahtu or the Northwest Territories, all you have to do is stay up to about three years. You see, Mr. Speaker, finding new teachers is not the problem, it’s the lack of consistency with teachers who don’t know where they will be next or where they will be living next year. It’s been said, Mr. Speaker, that trust building, bonding and respect are the building blocks of any type of educational environment and this is not happening in the Sahtu or in the Tulita school.

Mr. Speaker, for example we have three teachers presently living in our local hotel in Tulita. It’s good for our economy for the hotel yet, Mr. Speaker, we have teachers who have no place to live and we expect them to provide quality education classes for our children.

Mr. Speaker, this is unacceptable for people in the Sahtu and Tulita. Mr. Speaker, some of our teachers are sharing houses, the cost of living is very high in the Sahtu, and another thing is the high cost of taxes. For example, Mr. Speaker, in Nunavut, the Nunavut government has gone to bat and they have subsidized the teachers' housing in that jurisdiction. When will this government stand up and admit that maybe it was a mistake to get out of the housing business and stop this process in the Sahtu? Give our students, our people, the best educational opportunity of their lives, by supporting people who, at ground level, have some level of comfort for teaching. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Item 3, Members’ statements. I would like to commend the Members on their obedience to the rules regarding Members’ statements today.

---Laughter

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It is a privilege and a pleasure to recognize family, as always. Today I am pleased to recognize in the House my mother, Esther Braden, and another honoured senior within our community, Mr. Ed Jeske. Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question this afternoon is for Mr. Dent in his capacity as Government House Leader and it follows on my statement about the equal pay settlement that our government signed more than two years ago now. The settlement, Mr. Speaker, set out a deadline of the end of December this year for application by employees who feel they may be eligible. Among its many provisions, the settlement recognized affected unionized employees and obliged this government to try to contact them. I would like to ask the Government House Leader how successful has the government been in concluding arrangements with the affected employees between the years 1989 and 1998? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I understand that the equal pay unit has made payments to approximately 80 to 85 percent of the estimated 4,300 former and current unionized employees who would be eligible for these payments. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, Mr. Minister, for the answer. The settlement also recognized that casual workers who where employed by this government between that period were also included as being eligible. What efforts have been made to contact these casual workers and how successful has that part of the agreement been? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In terms of trying to contact people, since February through August of this year there was one person whose primary function in the office was to try and locate eligible employees who had not yet been located, and of approximately 900 people for whom contact had not been established, they were successful in reaching 135.

Mr. Speaker, the plans are to run some more advertisements in the very near future to remind people that the deadline for applying is December 31st. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m told that there was one distinct category that had to be created in which to, if you will, park the files of employees whose new positions had not yet been reclassified. This category went by, apparently the number 7777. Employees who may have found their position put into this category, I’m told, may have been overlooked in the settlement process and consequently in the search process, and would not show up on any eligibility lists. Could the Minister confirm that this category indeed was used for this purpose, and what efforts are being made to ensure that those employees are not forgotten by the December deadline? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Equal Pay Settlement Agreement outlines which groups of jobs are to receive compensation under the settlement, and this agreement is a legal binding document and is sanctioned by the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal. Because the settlement agreement does not contain provisions for any payments to employees who are in class code 7777, therefore, the government cannot make any payments to those individual employees. So there is no effort being made to try and provide payments to those individuals because it is outside the scope of what the order is from the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final supplementary, Mr. Braden.

Supplementary To Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Despite the fact they may or may not have been included in the articles of the settlement, does that mean that they should still be eligible under at least the spirit and intent of the agreement? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Braden. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 303-15(3): Status Of Pay Equity Settlement

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as a result of the order from the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal and their findings, this government has been directed as to how it shall resolve the complaint. That direction is prescriptive and we have to follow what is set out in that approach as it as agreed to by the three parties -- the Public Services Alliance of Canada, this government and the tribunal -- so there is no legal way for this government to even look at going around that and we have not.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Health and Social Services and it is with respect to the medical travel policy that is overseen by his department. Mr. Speaker, I would like to pose a few questions to the Minister just so that this creates public awareness about this and, also, obviously to find out if there is anything that can be changed to fix this discrepancy for our students.

Mr. Speaker, if a student was home during a school break, saw a doctor in their home community who had then referred them for medical treatment which turned out to be scheduled after they had returned to school, would this be considered as being instigated from inside the territory or would it be covered by medical travel? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Mr. Miltenberger.

Return To Question 304-15(3): GNWT Medical Travel Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that seems very clearly to me like a hypothetical question.

Ohhhh. Shame.

But…Hearing silence from the Speaker I will carry on.

---Laughter

Mr. Speaker, if a student is at home and they are sick and they have to be referred south, if I understood the question, that would be medical travel as far as I am aware. Thank you.