Debates of February 9, 2005 (day 32)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My Member’s statement today was about the importance of internal audits and the lack thereof in the sense of human resource capital to do those important jobs. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board tell me exactly how many positions are currently vacant in the Audit Bureau and the average vacancy rates for the past five years? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board, Mr. Roland.

Return To Question 348-15(3): Vacancy Rates In The Audit Bureau

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this year we have approximately four positions vacant in the Audit Bureau. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 348-15(3): Vacancy Rates In The Audit Bureau

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Minister didn’t mention or he left out, probably accidentally, of course, the rate that we have absent for the last five years. How many employees have not been in that position for five years? What is the constant rate of absence in that section? What does the Minister plan to do to staff these positions in the Audit Bureau immediately? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 348-15(3): Vacancy Rates In The Audit Bureau

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, first of all, let me correct my initial response. We have three positions vacant in the year right now, in 2004-05. It has averaged from three to five, so we are about in the area of four percent average over five years' vacancy rate. Not four percent, but four positions average over the five-year period. We continue to try to attract people to those positions. It has been very difficult. I think if we were to survey those in the private sector, we would find that they are having just as much difficulty in getting that type of professional to come north or to take up that side of the ledger, so to speak, Mr. Speaker. We are continuing to recruit and offering our positions out there, so if there are people listening and have the qualifications, please send in your resumes. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 348-15(3): Vacancy Rates In The Audit Bureau

Apparently that public service announcement has been brought to you by the Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board. Mr. Speaker, I have the rates here back to the year 2000. So for the 2000-01 budget, we had six absences. In 2001-02, there were four absences. In 2003-04, we had five absences. The Minister was correct; we had three absences for this past 2004-05 year. Mr. Speaker, I can understand that there is probably little latitude and movement about offering people more pay and whatnot to attract people. I appreciate his little plug there to look for recruitment, but I want to emphasize that I understand equal pay issues will play a role in this, but, Mr. Speaker, we have 25 percent of that area not being staffed. We have one budget year where we are missing six people. That is almost 50 percent of the audit function missing. Mr. Speaker, do we have to wait for something tragic to happen before we start addressing this issue? Will the Minister address this by hiring consultants to conduct these operational value-for-money audits before something goes wrong? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 348-15(3): Vacancy Rates In The Audit Bureau

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member referenced 2000-01; so looking at the year we are in now, I think we have done significantly better in attracting people to those positions. Where required, and if it is of urgent nature that we have to deal with. We will look outside of our systems, but, again, we have to remind ourselves that we are in a fiscal situation. We have to be careful with how we spend our money, and we are doing the best with what we have available to us. From time to time, if required, we will look at hiring outside of the government service. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 348-15(3): Vacancy Rates In The Audit Bureau

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, Minister Roland, for your good answer. Mr. Speaker, the Minister talked about the fiscal nature. Typically, in the budget, we staff these positions at 100 percent even though we know there are absences in those positions. So the fiscal nature doesn’t apply to this because we resource that area to the fullest of the budget potential of those staffing positions. Twenty-five percent of that job is not being done. That is of urgent nature. So I am not sure what he refers to when he says if it is of an urgent nature, something could be done. They don’t just check for missing money, but they check on accounting processes, they make sure things are going out in a proper ethical way. So I can’t just stand here in good conscience as an elected official watching public funds not being monitored, watching public funds not being put through the normal process of checks and balances. I would like to see the Minister roll up his sleeves right now and say we are going to solve this problem, we are going to make this problem go away. Roll up your sleeves, Mr. Speaker, and get this man into the job he is here to do. I know he can. Thank you.