Debates of May 26, 2005 (day 2)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise on the heels of my Member’s statement with questions to the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation. Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned in my Member’s statement, $72,000 was given to one person and as far as I see it, we could have given three people $24,000 for a down payment and that would have been considered reasonable. Could the Minister explain to me in somewhat reasonable detail, obviously without giving out the name of the person who we gave it to, why there was such a variance between one down payment of $6,500 and another down payment of $72,000? That I just don’t think is right. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

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Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, Mr. Krutko.

Return To Question 17-15(4): Expanded Downpayment Assistance Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it may seem that the numbers are screwy with regard to how you look at it, but I think the Member has to realize that this program is developed throughout the whole Northwest Territories. We have communities who have just as much need for assistance as they do here in Yellowknife. You also have to realize that this program is not only for high income clients. It’s also there to assist people who are trying to move from income support, clients who are in social housing, to get them out of social housing and into home ownership. There is no set guideline in regard to maximums. There is a maximum amount in regard to the subsidy of 40 percent of the value of the home. That applies mostly to outlying communities because of the high cost to those clients, but also in order to meet those goals we are able to work with people in both sectors. This is a universal program. It’s not just for people in high incomes. We are there to assist people who have large families, whose threshold is over 30 percent with regard to core need and are paying the high rents in social housing and assisting them to move out. That’s why you have some clients who have these high incomes.

I think, Mr. Speaker, more importantly we’ve assisted 570 people to get into home ownership and it’s put almost $70 million into the Northwest Territories economy. So if that’s a bad news program, I’d like to ask the Member exactly what is wrong with this program that we were able to assist 570 people and put $67 million into our economy. Maybe the Member could elaborate a little more on exactly what he’s really pointing at with regard to his argument. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 17-15(4): Expanded Downpayment Assistance Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Minister has been here long enough to realize that he’s not supposed to ask Regular Members questions. I was kind of hoping maybe a point of order on that, but I’ll answer the question. I’m very proud that we’re putting people into housing and I’m proud to hear this government puts in housing, but you know what? The bottom line is I’m mad to find out that we’re putting $72,000 into one house. We could have done a lot better than that and it seems unreasonable. All I asked for was for you to explain the details of why one person received $72,000 when we could have helped a lot of people with that. We could have given three people $24,000; we could have given 10 people $6,500. Explain the one scenario. That’s all I’ve asked for. I’m not breaking your legs over nothing. Explain the details. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 17-15(4): Expanded Downpayment Assistance Program

Mr. Speaker, I’ll try to be clear for the Member so he understands. There is a maximum subsidy that is given. I said 40 percent based on the value of the home. But again, it’s based on the client’s ability to pay. The affordability question comes in with regard to being able to pay the operational maintenance costs of the home and also ensure that their expenditure does not exceed the 40 percent that anyone should be able to pay for shelter. So because of those restrictions, those individuals who are in that area of more need, because of their income, receive more subsidy. So hopefully that can assist the Member. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 17-15(4): Expanded Downpayment Assistance Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that didn’t explain anything, I’m sorry to say. It just said there’s a sliding scale that goes up to 40 percent. Mr. Speaker, we have a situation of $72,000. Explain the scenario. Tell me they came from low income housing and they were paying $200 a month and this government was darn well going to make sure that they paid a mortgage at $200 a month regardless of how expensive this house is. Explain the scenario. Show some transparency on this program. Would the Minister do that? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 17-15(4): Expanded Downpayment Assistance Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, again, it’s based on household income and the size of the family. If you have a family with six people or seven people, it’s based on the ability of that family to maintain themselves, but also maintain a mortgage. So there are also things that are looked at with regard to how you determine the evaluation. Also, regarding the income support system, it again is based on where these units are being put in place. A lot of communities, where you’re putting $300,000 into a community, your threshold numbers are somewhere in the range of $50,000 or $60,000. In order for that family to maintain a mortgage, they have to be able to meet the minimums which are based on the 30 percent expenditures with regard to household core need. If the Member would like, I have provided him with information and if he would like more information, I can get it to him.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.

Supplementary To Question 17-15(4): Expanded Downpayment Assistance Program

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can see we’re slowly getting somewhere, like an iceberg here moving along the great divide. But, Mr. Speaker, let me put $72,000 into real dollars. Mr. Speaker, if I took home $72,000 in a pay cheque, that means I would have made over $105,000 that year. This is grantable money of $72,000. That’s a lot of money that’s tax free, straight across. As far as I’m concerned, we still haven’t heard the details and we have five more days of this session to go. I’m sure we’ll hear it by the end of it. Mr. Speaker, what were the exact details of this? What did they have for rental income? How many were in this family? Justify $72,000 for one family. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Mr. Krutko.

Further Return To Question 17-15(4): Expanded Downpayment Assistance Program

Mr. Speaker, the Member is getting down to a pretty detailed answer so I’ll take that as notice and get the information back to the Member if he wants to.