Debates of August 22, 2007 (day 15)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions again are for the Minister responsible for Human Resources. We look back over the past 10 years of this government and the government before it and the government before that have spent over $8 million in the area of PeopleSoft and the software there for human resources. Just last year, we spent another $450,000 on a Hackett report to go over business processes at HR. Just recently in the supp, there is another $523,000 to deal with PeopleSoft. It seems to me, Mr. Speaker, that it is a black hole of public funds that is going into a product that basically does not deliver the value for the money that the government is putting into it. I would like to ask the Minister what the plan is going forward to deal with the inadequacies of that software, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister responsible for Human Resources, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 184-15(6): GNWT Human Resources Information System

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The issue of the cost of the PeopleSoft program shouldn’t be a surprise to the Member. If you look at the Grant Thornton report which was done in the year 2000, it predicted that the annual cost for PeopleSoft would be about $1.8 million including licensing, software support, hardware acquisition and so on. So there is an ongoing cost to having any program that the government runs, because it has to continually update that and pay for its support and licensing.

Mr. Speaker, it is also important for me to state that the programs, all of the modules that are used right now, are working as expected. So there is one module which would have been a new module over and above what the government had in place before that is not working, but everything else is working as expected. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 184-15(6): GNWT Human Resources Information System

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. What I’d like to get at is we are spending all this money in the area of PeopleSoft and it’s because the program itself was cut up over the years or bastardized, if I could. I want to find out who is responsible for making these decisions where that program that we’ve spent millions of dollars gets cut up to suit our needs of the day and it doesn’t look long term on what the future needs of the Government of the Northwest Territories are and we end up having to pay more money. I’d like to ask the Minister who is responsible for making decisions in regard to PeopleSoft when it comes to cutting that program up and causing us to spend more money in the future, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 184-15(6): GNWT Human Resources Information System

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, that was a decision that was made by previous governments, so it’s not one I can specifically say that was a previous Premier or Minister responsible for HR because that department is new. However, it was done prior to this government coming into place in 2003. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 184-15(6): GNWT Human Resources Information System

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to know if anybody that was responsible for making decisions that are affecting us today is still working for the government and, if they are, I really do believe, Mr. Speaker, that somebody somewhere has to be held accountable and has to be responsible for the decisions that were made with PeopleSoft. If it’s not the Minister, it’s not the Premier, it’s not this government -- they want to wash their hands of it -- who is it? Who can we say is responsible for the situation we find ourselves in today, Mr. Speaker?

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 184-15(6): GNWT Human Resources Information System

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again, because that relates to a previous government, I can’t answer that question. As the Member is quite aware, in our system of government it is the Minister that is responsible for decisions that are made by their departments. Therefore, the Minister, if the question had come up in this House at the time, then that Minister could have been held responsible. But we have a situation where…It’s like in Ottawa when we have the Liberals in power, they blame the party that was there first; when the Conservatives come in, they blame the Liberals. Well, it’s the same situation in here in that we’re not able to go back and say that such and such should have happened. At the time that some of these decisions were made, I certainly wasn’t on Cabinet. It’s a situation where it’s a ministerial responsibility and the person who is responsible may not ever be found. Sorry.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 184-15(6): GNWT Human Resources Information System

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, given the incidents that I’ve pointed to today such as the security breach that happened last winter, the recent module failing, all of the concerns of the employees, the client concerns, those hundreds of people who didn’t receive a paycheque after July 3rd when the system crashed, I’d like to ask the Minister is there going to be any disciplinary action taken on staff at Human Resources for causing us these problems, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 184-15(6): GNWT Human Resources Information System

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In fact, everybody did get a paycheque so there isn’t a situation where people haven’t been paid. In fact, everybody got a paycheque by the next banking day. That happened because of the work that people put in at the Department of Human Resources. I’m quite proud of the fact that people worked 23, 24 hours straight in order to ensure that the paycheques went out. Mr. Speaker, as I have said before, in our opinion, the reason that there was a problem stems back to the contractor. This government does not have the expertise to buy a program off the shelf and install it; that’s why that was done through a contractor. We had a contract for a program to be delivered. In our opinion, it wasn’t delivered in a working fashion. Thank you.