Debates of May 11, 2007 (day 5)

Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions today are for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, the honourable Minister Dent, on our income security reform, or income support reform that the department is going to be going through. I just wanted to talk about the recent payout of IBA to some income support clients in Fort Resolution that have been clawed back through their income support assistance for the month. I just want to ask the Minister in relation to the request for an exemption on the Hook Lake Bison Recovery Program and the compensation settlement on that. Will he direct the income security office in Fort Resolution to continue to treat these IBA settlement payments similar to this compensation settlement as excluded income? Will the Minister do that? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Dent.

Return To Question 59-15(6): Income Support Program Treatment Of Impact Benefit Compensation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and good morning. Mr. Speaker, the government’s position is that IBA payments are not compensation; they are a contractual arrangement between a band and between a company; they are a private contract. So in this circumstance they aren’t treated the same way as a compensation payment. So the answer to the Member's question is no, that would not be the direction provided.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 59-15(6): Income Support Program Treatment Of Impact Benefit Compensation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Okay, well, let’s just get on the topic of compensation here and section 20 of the Income Assistance Program policies, Mr. Speaker. You know, we’re treating the Japanese Canadian Redress Agreement and the Merchant Navy Agreement as compensation and as exempt. I don’t know who thought that up, but any stuff like the Indian treaty money received is also exempt. It says here the beneficiary will not…your calculation of net monthly income. We receive treaty money once a year, Mr. Speaker. It’s $5 a year. They’ve got it in here. That’s an insult for the treaty money that we do receive. I would like to receive compensation included as IBA here. It says the Inuvialuit Final Agreement is treated as exempt. They receive up to $1,000 a year in compensation on this part and that is treated as exempt. Why can’t we treat IBAs the same, because it is compensation for loss of property, which is the land that the aboriginals use. Why isn’t it treated equally? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

---Applause

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 59-15(6): Income Support Program Treatment Of Impact Benefit Compensation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In fact, when we have court awards of compensation, for instance, in the residential school settlements, those are clearly exempt from our income support or consideration as income under our income support policies. Our legal opinions from Justice indicate that IBAs are contractual arrangements and are, therefore, not treated the same as compensation and that is the position of the government.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 59-15(6): Income Support Program Treatment Of Impact Benefit Compensation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know that through the RC distribution payment being considered exempt, they did take the government to court and the court did decide it should be exempt as income, as unearned income or exempt from clawback on your monthly income.

Mr. Speaker, if we are going to see residential school settlements being included as exempt in the new income support reform, then why can’t we include IBA dollars? A lot of claimant groups only get this money based on…It’s not guaranteed every year. They could have used the money for something else and they could have distributed it differently and in different circumstances. So why can’t we include that as an exemption in income because it’s not…

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. I will allow the Minister to answer that. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 59-15(6): Income Support Program Treatment Of Impact Benefit Compensation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are a lot of things that may happen only once. For instance, gifts that people are given that are considered as income. The exclusions we offer now through the program are those that are provided for as compensation for some purpose like the wrongdoing that happened at residential schools. IBAs are not considered the same way. It’s a contractual arrangement. It’s not seen by our government as compensation. So on that difference of opinion, that’s where we stand between the Member and the government.

Thank you, Mr. Dent. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 59-15(6): Income Support Program Treatment Of Impact Benefit Compensation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Okay, well let me ask the Minister this, if he can explain to me what the difference is between the Inuvialuit regional claim distribution payments and IBAs. I don’t see any difference in it, Mr. Speaker. I would like the Minister to tell me what that difference is. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Dent.

Further Return To Question 59-15(6): Income Support Program Treatment Of Impact Benefit Compensation

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. One flows from a modern treaty -- the settlement of a land claim -- and the other flows from something that is not part of a treaty, but is in fact a separate contractual arrangement. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.