Debates of June 1, 2006 (day 3)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions again today are for the Honourable Floyd Roland, Minister responsible for the public service in the Northwest Territories. I guess I'll start off by just saying numbers do not lie. If you looked around the country and his Human Resources department went out and did a comparison of rates of persons with disabilities that are employed in various public services across this country, the Northwest Territories would rank absolutely at the bottom of that list, Mr. Speaker, and I think that is an absolute shame. I'd like to ask the Minister exactly, and he is the Minister for Human Resources, also the Minister for FMBS, and I'd like to ask him, given the size of our public service relative to our population, it's huge. It's 4,200 employees, 42,000 residents, 13 percent of our population have a disability. Why is it that the Minister who's responsible for FMBS and Human Resources does not have one single person with a disability working in his two departments? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Honourable Minister responsible for FMBS, Mr. Roland.

Disability. He's got a disability himself.

Return To Question 22-15(5): Under-representation Of Disabled Persons In Government Workforce

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm aware that we do in fact, within HR, have an individual. In a number of departments we have individuals who are disabled. But I'm not going to stand here and highlight who, where and what position. We have individuals working with disabilities. The issue at hand is, as the Member stated, there are numbers and then there's statistics. He's used the fact that 13 percent of people are identified as disabled within the Northwest Territories. The question should more appropriately be, I guess, I look at it is how many of those are in the area of looking for work, how many are seniors, how many are younger individuals in the North? And then how many of them, the result, how many are applying for positions with the Government of the Northwest Territories?

As stated, we recognize, and the trend has been a long time, that we have not pulled the numbers up in regards to disabled individuals working for the Government of the Northwest Territories. I stated that we are reworking our policies around our hiring practices to bring it more into line around affirmative action and our hiring policies for the Government of the Northwest Territories, and I hope to have that paper to my Cabinet colleagues before the end of the summer, and then to the Members of this House for review before we get to the fall sitting. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 22-15(5): Under-representation Of Disabled Persons In Government Workforce

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, given the fact that now I have armed with some real numbers and statistics, I guess yesterday was a different story the Minister gave me, was the fact that in the Northwest Territories maybe people don't self identify disabilities. But in fact, in other jurisdictions across this country the self-identification process is at play. So I believe it's a fair comparison to compare the amount of disabled persons working for the Northwest Territories government with other jurisdictions; absolutely a fair comparison. I'd like to ask the Minister, aside from this employment equity policy paper that is somewhere in the Human Resources department and might see the light of day by the end of the year, when will he take some concrete and some sincere measures to improve these abysmal numbers that we have in employing persons with disabilities here in the Northwest Territories? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 22-15(5): Under-representation Of Disabled Persons In Government Workforce

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the fact is, and we've agreed that there needs to be work done around our hiring practices within the Government of the Northwest Territories. We've committed to doing that and bringing a paper forward for this Assembly to review, the Members and our government, to improve on a number of areas. As the Member's well aware, we've just done the human resources amalgamation, and getting those processes, our normal processes, in working order so that we can do an effective job with our staff today. We haven't had the opportunity to deal with these issues the Member's bringing up in a way that would show some positive results. So we are bringing that paper forward and we'll be reviewing it, and hopefully we can actually implement it before the end of our term and actually show that we are taking concrete steps to change the way our hiring practices are used. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 22-15(5): Under-representation Of Disabled Persons In Government Workforce

Yes, thank you, Mr. Speaker. Boy, am I ever looking forward to that paper coming to see the light of day and see the work that the $450,000 that went to an American company to study the human resources problems come to light. I'd like to see it and I'd like to see it soon, because again, Mr. Speaker, the majority of concerns I hear from constituents today come from pay and benefits and issues dealing with our Human Resources department. Bar none, it's the most. I'd like to again ask the Minister why he would continue to treat arguably the most disadvantaged and underrepresented group, which they are, worse and more suspiciously than other groups that are currently in the affirmative action policy that the government trumpets every day. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 22-15(5): Under-representation Of Disabled Persons In Government Workforce

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member says I treat disabled people differently than I do other individuals, or the government treats them differently. The fact is when we put a job description or a competition out there, we have criteria for those jobs. Those people that apply can identify whether they fall under our affirmative action policy if they have criteria that we have to take into consideration as we fill those positions. Ultimately, though, Mr. Speaker, it's going to be the qualifications of the individual that will apply to whether they get that job or not. We're not going to fill positions just on a percentage basis because that target is there. We need to put people in place that can do the job. I don't personally treat those individuals differently than I would any other individual. It's circumstance by circumstance, competition by competition, and we are working to try to improve that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.

Supplementary To Question 22-15(5): Under-representation Of Disabled Persons In Government Workforce

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do take issue with what the Minister is saying because the affirmative action policy and direct appointments fly right in the face of what the Minister just said, because appointments are made and this government has made many of them that really don't have much merit. You can go and talk to a lot of different people and they'll tell you the exact same thing. The Minister said yesterday in the House that affirmative action didn't come into play with direct appointments. I beg to differ. They're trying to get the numbers up in one category and ignoring another category, and that's exactly what's happening, Mr. Speaker. So I'd like to ask the Minister, perhaps I'd like from the Minister a definition of how direct appointments are used and why direct appointments are used only when they deem them necessary to use them. They're not used for persons with disabilities, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. There's two questions there. The Minister may answer one or both.

Further Return To Question 22-15(5): Under-representation Of Disabled Persons In Government Workforce

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Member has an amazing ability to be able to rewrite what's been said in this House, or responses. Yesterday, in response to his questions, I stated quite clearly that as direct appointments, a tool that we do have available to us, they're outside of the affirmative action policy. But the affirmative action policy is used in the ranking of a decision that is made. It is a tool. Direct appointments are a tool that we have and the government has, as past governments have, made priorities of people we will hire within the government: graduates from our Nursing Program, Social Work Program, Teacher Education Program, and those that do interns with the government where we've invested money in them. It makes sense to keep them in the system instead of going out and retraining somebody further to that. So that's the areas that we would use that in, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.