Debates of March 8, 2005 (day 51)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is to the Minister responsible for the FMBS, the Honourable Floyd Roland, with regard to the affirmative action policy that the new human resource amalgamation is planning on eliminating, I guess, out of the new human resource plan. I just wanted to ask the Minister a question about the establishment of the Affirmative Action Advisory Committee when the affirmative action policy was put into place in the early ‘90s. I just want to ask the Minister, if this committee still exists, what input into this new human resource organization is this Affirmative Action Advisory Committee going to have? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. The honourable Minister responsible for the Financial Management Board Secretariat, Mr. Roland.

Return To Question 568-15(3): Affirmative Action Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the affirmative action policy will not be eliminated. What we are doing is looking at its structure and incorporating it into the new organization and how we would carry on business as the Government of the Northwest Territories. Just to be clear and on the record, affirmative action is still an issue that we’re dealing with and looking at how we can carry it forward. If it has the same title or a different title, that’s something to be decided.

On the committee the Member spoke about, that has not been in operation for quite some time, so the work we’re doing is going to be from in-house and then going to Members initially. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 568-15(3): Affirmative Action Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess just with respect to the committee that hasn’t been in operation for some time, I guess, that could be one of the reasons leading up to the demise of the whole affirmative action policy in the government. I think it’s because this committee hasn’t been established, it hasn’t had any input, it hasn’t had any feedback, and it was set up as a monitoring system for the affirmative action policy and that hasn’t happened and it hasn’t panned out to what people have expected it to pan out to be. I guess the new name the Minister was referring to with the new affirmative action policy and the new human resource amalgamation would be to something along the lines of a succession planning program, which, to me, is the same as the MAP that this government has and is currently lacking in a lot of indigenous aboriginals that are participating in that program; one in nine employees to be precise, Mr. Speaker. I just want to ask the Minister if the affirmative action policy wasn’t part of the criteria for the MAP and that education is paramount in anybody advancing in the government in their employment status. That I agree with to some degree, but how much weight can somebody put on their experience in government? Some people have 20 years and they’ve trained people for three years…

What is your question, Mr. Villeneuve?

…and the MAP, one of the criteria is that you…

Do you have a question, Mr. Villeneuve?

I just want to ask the Minister what reassurances can he give aboriginal government employees that their experience, and in some cases lack of education, is not going to be the only determining factor in their advancement in management positions? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 568-15(3): Affirmative Action Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we should be clear again that the affirmative action policy is not dead. This government is still committed to it. It is still part of our hiring practices. The specific area of succession planning and so on, they are pieces of what we’re going to put together and improve on as the Government of the Northwest Territories through our corporate human resource service centres. With the ability, once we have the staff together, working together and having the support of their colleagues, and with the same interpretation of the rules that we operate by, we will be able to improve on the way we deliver human resource services to our employees.

On the specifics of the MAP program, there is some concern there. We’re working to try to improve that area. Initially people can nominate themselves, put themselves forward for it, and it can be from all sectors, from communities, regions, headquarters staff. As well, they can be nominated by someone else from within the government and put their name forward. Once their names are in, they go through a process and an assessment. That assessment goes on your ability to get the job done. So whether it’s a formal education or an informal education, your experience all comes into play. It’s an assessment of where you are in your work history. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Short supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 568-15(3): Affirmative Action Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess with the MAP program, the lack of aboriginal participation in that program, I know that people are nominated and they can nominate themselves, but a lot of people are putting forward their names, but they’re just not getting fair consideration, as far as they’re concerned, Mr. Speaker. On a few occasions people have applied twice. I notice they’re on the second round of the program implementation, and still they’re being turned down. These people are long-term government employees with lots of experience. They know in their own mind they can do the management position duties and responsibilities that are asked of them, but the people who are doing the assessment on them are the same people who aren’t really big advocates of this whole affirmative action policy, Mr. Speaker. So you’re kind of caught between a rock and hard place because human resources is the judge, jury and executioner…

What is your question? Do you have a question, Mr. Villeneuve?

I want to ask the Minister, when people are applying for this MAP, how can he be sure that they are going to get a fair assessment and a fair hearing and a fair interview with the people that are carrying out the program? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 568-15(3): Affirmative Action Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I’d have to take exception with the Member stating that we have employees out there who are not committed to the policies that we have in place. If there are examples of that, if there’s proof of that besides accusations of employees not following the rules, then definitely bring them forward to me and I will work to address them. We have a policy in place. We need to follow those policies. We know there are some problems with the one management program that we have in place. In fact, we’re trying to, as we go forward, incorporate it into the work around affirmative action and see how we can in fact bring people up from the communities and regions. Right now it’s sort of targeted towards headquarters. People from the regions can apply, but one of their considerations is they’d have to move to headquarters. So we’re looking to try to expand it so that there’s a regional component of that. Once they move up in that system and move up in their ability to get that job done then they can move on to the next stage. There are bits and pieces. We understand there’s a problem; we recognize that and we’re going to work to change and fix that. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Short supplementary, Mr. Villeneuve.

Supplementary To Question 568-15(3): Affirmative Action Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I thank the Minister for acknowledging that they do recognize that there is a problem with that policy and there’s a problem with implementation of the policy and that’s been happening for the last 10 years that this policy has been in place. I guess I just wanted to -- going back to the people in the MAP-- this MAP is a Management Assignment Program and management in this government…

Mr. Villeneuve, do you have a final question?

…people in management positions. With this upcoming MAP, one…

Mr. Villeneuve, do you have a question?

How is this MAP supposed to improve the aboriginal representation in management when there are no aboriginals in it?

Thank you, Mr. Villeneuve. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 568-15(3): Affirmative Action Policy

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the Management Assignment Program that’s in place, or MAP as we call it, was developed to try to move from within the existing workforce of the Government of the Northwest Territories; people who would have the ability to move up and take on the higher level positions and hopefully, with a succession plan, a person can come all the way up and take over a deputy minister position. That’s sort of the long term of things. When it was put in place, it was again there for everybody in the Government of the Northwest Territories. It wasn’t specifically designed for aboriginal people. It was for the whole of the government workforce. It’s something that’s been there. We recognize that we’ve got a problem when you look at the numbers, the statistics at headquarters and the managerial positions. We recognize that’s an area and we’re going to have to work on improving that. Thank you.