Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are addressed to the Minister of Justice. I have questions for him in regards to the concerns of a constituent of mine and some concerns which were recently brought to my attention. A complaint was laid against my constituent. She’s a member of a self-regulating professional body, and an independent investigator was fired by that body and the investigation took place. The resulting decision, unfortunately, compromised my constituent’s ability to practice. The problem is that the individual feels that the investigative process was flawed and unfair and that it should be reviewed. I would like to ask the Minister what recourse for Justice exist for someone in these circumstances. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The honourable Minister of Justice, Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. The particular investigation, of course, is under the RCMP “G” Division. At the same time, there are avenues that individuals can pursue. One of the avenues that is always open is the Public Complaints Commission. That is an avenue that we encourage people to apply if they are not satisfied with the outcome, whether it be an investigation at the local level, at the district level or even at the headquarter level. But those are just the avenues that we usually send them to first at the local level and then, if they are not satisfied, then the Public Complaints Commission is always open for them. Mahsi.
Unfortunately, the Minister did not understand the nature of this situation. This is a member of a self-regulating professional body. It has nothing to do with the RCMP. This individual had a complaint laid against them. It was investigated by the NWT body. The individual feels that the whole process was unfair and that it wasn’t valid and that it should be reviewed. Again, what recourse exists for my constituent? Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, we need to be aware of what kind of investigation it was. We don’t have any background in this area. If the Member can share that information, I can have my department look at it even closer, what kind of investigation was undertaken by whom and what kind of processes are available to that individual. We need that additional information before I speak to it. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.
I am afraid I have to disagree with the Minister. I don’t think that the details of this particular situation are relevant at all. This is an example that I feel goes extremely… It is a very pointed example relative to the need for an ombudsman. This is an investigation that was done under the regulations of an NWT professional organization. There is nothing within that organization which allows for any kind of an appeal. The only avenue of appeal is then presumably through the courts, which is something that this person does not want to do. Other than the courts, can the Minister tell me if there is anything for someone who is a member of a professional body, has been investigated by them, feels that it is unfair? What can they do?
Mr. Speaker, there again, I need to look at the file. There are processes within our GNWT system, within Justice, but we need to know what happened along the process. What kind of options are available through our department to assist those individuals? Of course, there is the court avenue that the Member has alluded to. That might be an option, but they can be dealt with in a manner that satisfies both parties, those are options that we need to look at. We need to look at the case file. I am not aware of this case file, but if the data can be shared with us, we can certainly look into it further.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Final supplementary, Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thanks to the Minister. I reiterate, I don’t think the details of the file should impact. The Minister mentioned there are things available, but he didn’t go into the detail of what things he is referencing when he says there are things available that can be done. Could he itemize for me the things that are available for such an individual as he mentioned in his previous answer?
The process I can certainly share with the Member in writing about the process itself, what kind of assistance is available to this individual. Due to the nature of the incident, we need to clarify that as well. Providing options of where this individual can certainly look at when it comes to options, I will commit to providing that information to the Member.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to continue questions with the Minister of Health and Social Services on the area of medical travel and services provided to our constituents. Part of the issue here is that we go to great pains to provide medical services to people who self-inflict particular issues to themselves, whether it’s through alcoholism or drugs. We have people with weight-loss problems and diabetes problems. who the Minister is saying are exempt from the policy. I think that’s wrong, because people are burdened with an unfair chance and we don’t provide them the support.
I’m trying to get the Minister to go back and review these files, because I’m talking about people who were previously approved and even recently approved, as far back as last fall, to go to Edmonton for specialized services. Would the Minister go back and review these files to see if we can make sure these people can get back in the queue and get services for medical treatment?
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.
As I’ve already indicated, we have very good medical and health care coverage. The weight loss reduction procedure is not a health care program that’s covered anywhere. We have discovered that some of them were approved by mistake and we are not going to approve that. We are working on developing a program that can help these clients in the North, because we have in fact discovered that some of the programs they were getting down south were in private clinics and something that we could look into doing here. We do need to do more here.
With respect to paying clinic files, those are private clinic treatments and the only thing we’re asking is that they make contact with their physicians to make sure that the physician supervises their files. I don’t think that’s asking for much. Our program is still very good and we need to respect the integrity of our programs.
I appreciate the Minister’s answer but it’s lacking a particular element that even recently, this last fall, that this constituent went for medical advice, they got a recommendation from the doctor, the doctor processed the papers through the normal channels, the normal channels approved them, and they went to Edmonton to start their treatment. Then, of course, when they tried to do their follow-up, all of a sudden the policy doesn’t apply. So one day it applies and the next day it applies. That same type of treatment was successful on another family member and they used the same travel policy to get services. Would the Minister review this file and take a serious look at this and say, wait a minute, why are we doing this to people? Why are we supporting them?
I’m not sure what files he’s talking about and we can’t talk about private files here. I do want to say that our Medical Travel Policy, I don’t think he’s talking about the Medical Travel Policy because medical travel comes when our residents are approved for a procedure outside of the NWT and we cover for that. It comes from what the original procedure is that they were approved and our policy is sound. We found out that the policy was not applied properly and we made sure that whoever was approving those procedures was informed about the fact that those procedures they were approving are not allowable within our guidelines. So we’re following the procedure.
I continue to get further disappointed, if it’s possible, on this particular case. We have a system that has approved people to travel. We have a system now that says, well, I’m sorry, our system doesn’t like this particular case, we’re not going to allow you to travel down for needed medical care. This is doctor prescribed care. This is not sort of somebody saying, hey, you should do this. This is needed care. It’s quite demoralizing when one day you go down for treatment and the next day you’re told, sorry, you don’t qualify. I’m asking for some empathy in this particular question. Could the Minister show some compassion to these particular files? I brought three recently to her particular attention. Would she be willing to review them and see if there’s a way to make this work?
The Member knows that a lot of situations and files come to my desk. We review them to make sure the policy is applied. If the physicians order procedures that are not eligible for coverage under our program, they would be advised, which is the situation that happened with the weight loss reduction procedures. All the doctors have been given clinical guidelines to make sure that they understand this. We have lots of doctors coming and going in the Territories and they need to always be getting these messages. So I’ll be happy to look at any file that the Member is asking, but we would always make sure that our policy is being adhered to.
Thank you, Ms. Lee. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wanted to follow up with some more questions to the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. I wasn’t really satisfied with the responses that I got from the Minister on the fact that we are treating folks who go out for training for apprenticeship training differently than we are treating college students. I’m just wondering, according to the Minister’s logic, why the Government of the Northwest Territories, because we have infrastructure on the ground for post-secondary studies here and programs running in the Northwest Territories, why do we fund students to attend southern institutions in the area of nursing or teaching, for example. Can the Minister explain that to me?
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. We do fund all students as best we can; the 1,400 post-secondary students that are out there and the apprenticeship students that are out there. I think we have to keep that in mind that this particular campus that we’re talking about, it’s also geared towards apprenticeship because, as I stated, we’ve invested so much already and we continue to invest in upgrading our facility so it’s one of the top of the line courses that is being offered. At the same time, other students are taking those post-secondary programs as well at Smith campus and Inuvik campus or Yellowknife campus. We do sponsor all the students, but there are at times courses that the students want to take outside and then it’s their choice to do so.
Again I’m just having trouble understanding the Minister’s logic because, yes, we have an investment in Fort Smith, but the same could be true for the Aurora Campus here in Yellowknife at Northern United Place where we as a government have contributed a tremendous amount of money into the Northern Nursing Program that’s now affiliated with the University of Victoria. So why doesn’t the Minister go out, round up all the students we have in southern Canada and put them here in Yellowknife so that they can get educated here in the Northwest Territories? His argument makes no sense. I want to know why apprentices are treated differently than college students. Why are they made to go to Fort Smith?
I think there’s also a cost factor to keep in mind where we have students who are going to NAIT or other southern institutions that we pay well over $5,000 for one student. If you add let’s say 100 students in the Apprenticeship Program, that’s $580,000 going outside the Northwest Territories where that can be spent to our campuses in the Northwest Territories. We say we have 1,400 students going south. I’m sure it doesn’t cost us $5,800 for one student. There is a fee that we pay at the NAIT campuses, because they have their own NAIT institution act that they follow that we have to pay for a seat. Those are some of the differentiations in how the cost factors are in play. But it is $580,000 that we are looking at.
I think we should treat everybody fairly and equally. That includes apprentices and anybody wanting to further their education. If that’s in southern Canada, then it’s in southern Canada. Either we’re going to support people or we’re not. Apprentices should not be treated any differently than anybody else. I’d like to ask the Minister if he has any flexibility whatsoever when it comes to this policy so that when somebody is caught in a predicament where they can go to a third year and get it done while they’re already there, which makes absolute sense, is there any flexibility that the Minister has to make sure that this can happen. What’s right should happen.
Yes, there is flexibility where if a program is not being offered at our campuses, we send students down south such as we did with this individual on his second year. So we continue to promote that. But we do have to keep in mind that we do have campuses here in the Northwest Territories that we need to sponsor and support. It’s our true northern campuses.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.
I think the Minister is missing my point. The point is that this individual can start his third year almost immediately. He can be concluded that third year prior to April 7th when the program starts in Fort Smith, which would enable him to come back home to Yellowknife and pursue his further apprenticeship. I would like to ask the Minister, has there been allowances under the policy in the past that saw individuals allowed to attend back-to-back years at NAIT or SAIT?
The intake, again, is for March at NAIT and three weeks later it’s at Fort Smith campus. So there is not much time difference. At the same time we’re not just talking about one student. We’re talking about other students that will be lining up at our door saying, pay for our institution down south. We don’t want to close down our facility in Fort Smith, Inuvik, or Yellowknife campus. That should be our first priority, supporting our campuses in the Northwest Territories.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.
Would the Minister provide the following details specific to inclusive schooling funding particular detailing each community and school districts over the past three years including the projected trends for the next two school years:
How many students are categorized as inclusive students that require one-to-one support that would not otherwise be able to attend school safely?
How many students are categorized as special needs students that require special assistance with modified school plans?
How much funding is provided to each community and district school board for each question as highlighted and categorized above?
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have two documents I would like to table today. One identifies the contents of the Christmas present that was given to the Legislative Assembly yesterday by the Anti-Poverty Strategy supporters. The second is a listing of the Anti-Poverty Strategy supporters.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
WHEREAS every person has the right to a standard of living adequate to the well-being of their families and themselves;
AND WHEREAS approximately 10 percent of Canadians, or 2.9 million people, lived in poverty in 2007;
AND WHEREAS in some NWT communities, up to 50 percent of households have a total income of less than $30,000;
AND WHEREAS 40 percent of NWT households with a senior have incomes below $40,000;
AND WHEREAS health indicators, educational achievement, child apprehension rates and family violence can be directly related to poverty;
AND WHEREAS poverty is human-made and can be overcome;
AND WHEREAS the GNWT currently has no official definition of poverty and no clear and integrated strategy to combat poverty;
AND WHEREAS it should be a priority goal of the GNWT to eradicate poverty in the Northwest Territories;
AND WHEREAS eradicating poverty will significantly contribute to the achievement of all of the Legislative Assembly’s goals and priorities;
NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Weledeh, that the government develop an Anti-Poverty Strategy for the Northwest Territories;
AND FURTHER, that the Premier initiate discussions towards this strategy in partnership with business, organizations and those living in poverty;
AND FURTHER, that the government and partners start by developing a definition of poverty;
AND FURTHER, that the Anti-Poverty Strategy identify specific, measurable targets, with clear cross-departmental mechanisms for coordination and integration of actions;
AND FURTHERMORE, that the government provide a comprehensive response to this motion within 120 days.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The motion is on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I brought this motion to the floor of the House because I believe poverty is a huge issue in the NWT and I believe this government can do better in our efforts to eradicate poverty. We already have a number of programs and services in place, programs and services whose goal it is to assist those residents of ours who are marginalized, to reduce the level and amount of poverty in our Territory. But these many activities are not coordinated across our government system and they are not coordinated with the activities and non-government organizations and local governments.
Currently there are gaps in the services that are available to our residents. There are holes in the poverty safety net. By working together, we can close those gaps, mend those holes and accomplish so much more. A comprehensive targeted strategy to address poverty in the NWT is what is needed.
The preamble to the motion mentions some poverty statistics. About 10 percent of Canadians live in poverty. In the NWT’s smaller communities, up to 50 percent of our households have a total income of less than $30,000 per year. Too many of our people either live in poverty or very close to the edge of it, Mr. Speaker.
Right now, I think everybody should agree that poverty has an impact on our systems and on our residents. The causes and effects are well documented. Again, I quote from the motion’s preamble, “health indicators, educational achievements, child apprehension rates and family violence can be directly related to poverty.”
For the GNWT, these effects of poverty on our residents puts added stress and strain on our health system, our social service system, our justice system and our education system. If we work together to eliminate or even reduce poverty experienced by our people, the results will be positive, both by a financial perspective and a human one. But in order to achieve those results, we need a comprehensive targeted strategy to address poverty in the NWT.
There is no need to reinvent the wheel, either, Mr. Speaker. Six Canadian provinces have adopted anti-poverty strategies and two more are in the throes of doing so. There are several provincial strategies which we can use as a template for our own NWT one. I am advised that the Newfoundland and Labrador strategy in particular is one that we should look at with the view of using it as a foundation or base document for the development of our own strategy.
This motion calls for the Premier to initiate discussions to develop an NWT Anti-Poverty Strategy. But it emphasizes that any development must be done in partnership, in conjunction with business, organizations and those living in poverty. The development of a strategy without the involvement of these groups is a strategy destined to fail. So let’s not do that, please.
The motion also calls for the development of a definition of poverty, a definition that applies to the NWT. It’s something which does not exist at the moment and we can hardly initiate an attack on poverty if we don’t have a clear definition of the target of the attack.
The other element that must be part of any discussion is the identification of a tool to adequately measure poverty. Several measures exist throughout Canada but none applies particularly well to the NWT and there’s no agreed on measure of poverty that is used consistently throughout the government.
Mr. Speaker, every NWT person has the right to live well. The goals and the priorities of this 16th Legislative Assembly speak to healthy, educated people. We need to add to these goals. We need to make the eradication of poverty in the NWT a priority goal. This motion will get us started on that road, Mr. Speaker. I urge all Members of this House to support this motion which can only benefit our residents. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. I’ll go to the seconder to the motion, the honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to stress the comments, many of the comments of my colleague Ms. Bisaro. She’s laid it out quite thoroughly there.
Basically we are at the point where we need to define in order to measure and then go out and measure poverty. I think somebody said at one of our get-togethers that if we don’t measure something, we don’t care about it. I am afraid that encapsulates some of the aspects of the issue we are dealing with through this to get an Anti-Poverty Strategy in the books.
The historical patterns and the development of poverty, of course, are familiar to many. It involves colonization, cultural upheaval, residential schools and so on. We know that many of our communities have suppressed economies. We need healthy, vigorous economies. That’s one of the aspects of dealing with poverty.
Some of these events have been portrayed in the last couple of days and can lead to a downward spiral into poverty unless we have a comprehensive strategy in place to catch those things when they happen. This government, I believe, is developing a lot of experience in that itself.
The boom/bust development scenarios that we have experienced and seem to persist on seeking often creates the devise of those that have and those that don’t. That tends to exacerbate poverty in our communities. Those in poverty face many barriers: access to child care, which we’ve heard much about recently; housing; fuel and food costs; addictions and mental health issues and the linkages that work between those. Income security, we have a lot of good things in place, but they are not linked together in ways which capture things, so there are big gaps in between. Income security does not keep pace, for example, with rising costs. We do adjust it from time to time, but it’s not very sensitive and we know there is an extremely high cost of living today.
Developing a poverty eradication plan must be based on a foundation that ensures a more equitable distribution of benefits through the vision of socially, environmentally and economically sustainable development. We are also talking a lot about that these days.
So I see the opportunities here, Mr. Speaker, as huge. I don’t see this being a huge budget item because I think we are spending a lot, but because we don’t have a comprehensive and integrated approach, we have gaps, a lot of our folks are falling through that. If we start measuring the incidents of poverty, so we actually know how we are doing and evaluating the work that we’re doing and thus learning and using an adaptive management approach to this, we can do a lot of catch up.
So, Mr. Speaker, I obviously will be supporting this motion and I urge all Members to do so. Mahsi
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just wanted to say I will be voting in favour of this particular motion. I support any efforts to move this issue forward. Poverty is certainly a demeaning situation where people are struggling everyday to get out of it and we have to find ways to assist in the breaking of the cycle that is meaningful and productive. Mr. Speaker, I don’t think anybody in an impoverished situation dreams that dream. This is something this government needs to commit to with a focus of saying how can we help people to break the cycle, get up on their own two feet, and celebrate the opportunities that lay before this land of the Northwest Territories.
In closing, I just want to emphasize that I do support this and I think that if we can help break that tailspin that people are in, I hope very dearly that we can provide them every opportunity that all these families deserve who are stuck in this cycle.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.
