Mr. Daniels.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The early childhood framework that we work with is we work closely with the Department of Health and Social Services, who does a lot of the work in that area. The role that we provide is more on the child development area and the provision of funding for programs that support language and development in the language nest programs, for example, as well as supporting the start-up and operating costs for early childhood programs, as well as the training of early childhood care workers. Then we also conduct the monitoring and evaluation functions of licensed facilities to ensure they’re complying with the Child Day Care Act.
Early childhood development is a very important issue within the riding and certainly with myself. I just want to make sure that we’re providing the right type of support. I often hear concerns about not receiving enough funding support when it comes to being able to address issues such as speech and language as well as behaviour, which I would think falls directly on the Department of Education when you’re funding these organizations. Does the department provide that type of service? I know the deputy minister had alluded, or I should say quite directly pointed out that they provide language nest programming, which is a little bit different. I’m just wondering, specific to things like speech language and behaviour, do they support some of the early childhood development programming in that regard.
There are different programming supports through our funding arrangements that we contribute to the operators. We do make adjustments in our formula that take into account any special needs that students might have or young children might have that are part of these facilities, so that the facilities can help provide increased levels of support for students who might have special needs.
With that said, can the department provide some examples and certainly attach some dollar amounts that they provide in meeting those supports that they’ve highlighted?
Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi. We’ll provide that information. We don’t have it here with us.
I look forward to that. Thank you for that commitment. On that same vein, does the Department of Education, Culture and Employment, through the early childhood development programming -- and I would like to boldly call it initiative because it’s very important that we stand behind these things -- supply or help fund resources that look at physiotherapy, speech and language pathology, things along those types of lines? Now, they’re slightly different when I referred to it earlier. I’m getting sort of into the nuts and bolts of actual accredited organizations. Sorry, accredited skills. My apologies. On top of that, what type of training services does the department provide the people who would run an early childhood development centre? What type of training and support for resources do they supply?
Mr. Daniels.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We do have a Healthy Children Initiative Fund that’s part of our early childhood mix of programming that people can apply for to support different initiatives. I forget the exact dollar figure right off hand, but I think it’s around $2 million or in that neighbourhood that different organizations can apply for for different supports that children in different centres might require support for.
Would the department be willing or would they commit to giving me a breakdown of the examples of how they’ve spent that in the last budget year and how they anticipate spending that particular money or targeting that money in this budget year?
Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. We can provide that information to the Members, the breakdown of what we have within our department, the expenditure that he’s referring to.
I want to thank the department for that. Just moving lastly to one particular area and hopefully I’ll have time to get into another one. On this particular area of early childhood development programming there’s at least a number of centres. Mainly I’m thinking of one in the downtown of Yellowknife and they work through one of the education boards. One of the things, of course, is the funding seems to be sort of stalled. How does the department meet those initiatives where the increased funding demand is there but it appears that the funding committed to the overall program remains at a standstill? How are they meeting the challenges of helping them through the funding resources and the funding agreements?
Mr. Daniels.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have a different mix of programming. The pots of funding that support early childhood. We do try to make sure that people are aware of the different pots of funding that they can apply for. Some of the funding is formula based, so it really depends on how many children might be in a centre. That would be a factor in the amount of money, as well as the age, because different staffing ratios kick in depending on the age of the children in these different centres. Sometimes the formula might put a cap on a particular operation depending on the size of the facility.
Recognizing the clock, I’ll just wrap up the next subject quite quickly in a sort of a brief overview. Under inclusive schooling, can I request that the Minister give me a breakdown on how dollars are spent per school per community and how the expenditure is based, whether it’s on base funding then per capita, to get an understanding on the type of programming and how the dollars are attributed to that? Perhaps I’ll just leave that as my last particular question at this time.
Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. We can clearly provide breakdowns that we provide to the schools. We don’t have that specific detailed information with us here today but we’ll provide that to the Members.
Just to remind Members to keep your sidebars down so that we can hear the questions. Next I have Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, it was a little difficult to hear you. I have a couple of questions here. The first one has to do with the numbers on page 10-17 for education operations and development. That’s gone down considerably, from about $3.5 million to $2.6 million or so. Can I get an explanation as to why?
Mr. Daniels.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That’s part of the shift. We’re moving the responsibility for the coordination of the Aboriginal Student Achievement Initiative from the education operations development side part of the department into our early childhood and school services part of the department.
I guess I should use my earpiece, but I didn’t quite hear the answer. It’s to early childhood and student services area? Could I get that clarified?
It’s to the early childhood and school services side of the department.
That’s great. Thanks for the response and the clarification. I would like to ask some questions, as well, on early childhood and the funding of early childhood programs. I raised an issue a number of sessions ago, a while ago, as to how daycares and early childhood centres are funded. At the time, I got the impression from the Minister that there was going to be some change to the way that daycares are funded. I just would like to know a couple of things. The first thing is: what is the current method of funding for daycares that ECE provides?
I don’t have the full details here with me, but basically it’s a formula-based approach. We have a formula that provides support for the start-up of a child care centre. Then there’s also a formula that applies for the ongoing operations and maintenance of the child care centres. That formula is really determined partly by the number of children that might be in the centre as well as by the ages of the children that are in the centre, because there are different requirements in terms of supervision depending on the age of students. Another factor that influences it is if there are any children with special needs, then the formula gets adjusted again to provide some additional support for any children in there that might require some additional supports.
I appreciate the answer. When I raised the concern, the major concern of daycares was that they were not funded on a per student basis in the way that we fund our schools but they were funded basically according to the formula that Mr. Daniels just explained. Their very real concern was when a child was not present in the daycare, they didn’t get funding. It had several ramifications. They have to keep fairly onerous notes and attendance records and submit them in order to get their funding, and the other problem is they don’t know from one week or one month to the next what their funding is going to be. So I’d like to know from the Minister, at the time that I raised the issue I understood that he was going to perhaps look at funding daycares on a per student or per client basis similar to the way we fund schools. Was that looked at and what were the results if it was looked at?
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. That specific area I did make a commitment in the House that we need to follow through with it. We did explore areas and my understanding is that this is part of the Early Childhood Development Framework review that’s currently in the first phase and going on into the second phase. We’re going to change the programming and there will be opportunity and time to do that. This is an area that’s been brought to our attention. It is in the works with the review that’s been undertaken.
I’m encouraged to hear that it’s going to be looked at. I’m a little disappointed that it hasn’t been looked at already, but something is better than nothing. I guess I want to impress upon the department how important it is that there be a stable source of funding for our daycares. That we’re doing an early childhood framework is a good thing. I think I mentioned that earlier. I’d like to know from the Minister -- either I have a poor memory or it hasn’t been mentioned yet -- when can we expect the results of the review of early childhood that is going to be happening or is happening now.
The first phase, I guess, we’ll be discussing around the end of June. The second phase we’ll be moving on to another date that I don’t really have a date on right now. I can get back to the Members on that and the process that we’re going to follow.
One last comment I want to make and I would hope that the department is considering this already. Since we are looking at an early childhood framework I would hope that there’s going to be a great deal of consultation with daycares, with child care centres. They vary from certified in-home daycares as well as ones that are in a separate building. I would certainly hope that the department is going to utilize the expertise within these various businesses and consult with them, I would hope, copiously. Thanks.
Thanks, Ms. Bisaro. Just a comment there. Minister Lafferty.
Mr. Chair, I agree with the Member; I think that this is a given that we need to consult with those organizations that are involved. Definitely, we will be consulting with them as well. Mahsi.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the particular issues I’d like to continue on the early childhood education matter, and Ms. Bisaro was wading into the particular area of concern that I share as well, which is the stabilized funding. Has the department put a lot of resources in the sense of attention and identification as to why certain early childhood centres or, certainly, programming doesn’t succeed?
One of the constant complaints I hear, of course, is stabilized funding. I often wonder has the department taken an initiative to analyze the actual cost of what some of these centres would cost the government to run and realize what a break we’re getting by them running it for us. I mean, this is the constant observation made by NGOs, that if the government paid the true cost of the services provided. But, yet, as I think was just mentioned and as we all know, one of the problems these facilities has is if a few kids are sick, then all of a sudden their funding erodes quite quickly. A lot of them, their funding is based on, quite literally and figuratively, 90 or 100 percent attendance, and once that starts to erode or become unstabilized, the whole program becomes unstabilized, and then it trickles down that slippery slope, which basically means they get behind on being able to pay staff, their power bills, and then they make the tough choices they need to make just to stay open. In the end, they get into a lot of trouble.
We’ve had a couple of facilities that have run into trouble and I will say, to the department’s credit, they have worked very hard, from a diligent manner, to keep those doors open. I think the department certainly needs a good pat on the back for that, which they don’t get enough recognition for what they do from a departmental point of view. But that said, the real problem, I believe, comes down to what the core cost of running these programs is and the fact that the government has fortunately escaped those true costs. The burden on these facilities, as I’ve pointed out, and these programs is the fact that stabilized funding tends to be a significant focus that is being overlooked.
Has the department looked at just funding them from what I would safely call as an example of an 80 percent of cost when it comes to costs of heating, lighting, whether it’s the rent or mortgage costs, and their staffing costs, and allow that per student fund to, sort of, be the extra gravy that puts them over the top as opposed to relying on such a high capacity of attendance? Because as I pointed out earlier, and it’s no surprise to the Minister or the staff here, that once you start missing a few students and you start losing funding, that is a big problem. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. This is an area that we did explore. We may not have covered all establishments, because as I outlined earlier, there are over 2,000 different facilities that we sponsor. We are doing what we can to find out what’s happening with the facilities, the cost factors and so forth. We are, at the current stage, exploring those areas. We have started and we will continue to do that. Again, there is a review that has been undertaken, so that could fall in that, the first phase and also the second phase. Mr. Chair, yes, we have started that. Mahsi.
Mr. Chairman, I wouldn’t want to impress on the Minister that we should become the sole funding source of every one of those organizations. When you wrap it up that way, you get day homes and everything, which probably isn’t quite reasonable and which is way beyond our means. My focus, really, is ensuring that early childhood development programs are established from a contextual circumstance of not somebody who just turns the light on on their doorstep and all of a sudden they call it a learning centre. But, I mean, we have some real organized, dedicated people and committees and core groups that develop learning centre programming here and they have a difficulty. That’s the type of agency I’m more focusing in on.
Perhaps what it really relies upon is a clear definition of that type of programming, because I can tell you that we have many here in Yellowknife and I have no doubt that there are many in the communities and regions that people need that extra edge, and by and large, that’s ultimately my issue. When we have an organized system, and I want to stay away from the word daycare at this second, but when you have an organized childhood development program that parents are committed to, I mean, we need to make sure the doors are open. I just want to emphasize that that is my particular area of concern at this time. Thank you.
I would also take that into serious consideration, because we have to deal with early childhood matters. The programming that we currently deliver, as you know, there are always changes that occur in different programming and different policies. As I stated, there is a review undertaken so we’ll closely monitor that, and if we need to make changes as we listen to the Members’ concerns, it will reflect on that as well. Mahsi.
Thank you, Minister Lafferty. I’m going to beg the patience of Mr. Beaulieu one more time here and ask Mr. Krutko, who has not spoken yet. Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. My question to the Minister is around exclusive schooling but it’s more in line with the Member’s statement, the Member for Nunakput, in regard to students that have to go away from their home communities in which they have to attend a school in regional centres and are basically put in a situation that they have to go to home boarding. I know there was a hostel previously in Inuvik. But again, the whole idea of inclusive schooling was to have K to 12 in all the communities in the Northwest Territories.
I think the problem that we’re having with the system is based on the way that we allocate funding to the communities. I know that the divisional boards are responsible for allocating funding based on student-pupil ratios. Again, it does not work in small communities where you might have enrolment of, say, 60 students or 50 students, because the way the formula is set up it doesn’t really benefit the high school students. Basically, they’re put in a situation that they want to stay at home, they want the education at home, but because they can’t, under the formula we have, allow students to have that opportunity for exclusive schooling in the communities such as Sachs Harbour or Tsiigehtchic.
I’d like to ask the Minister: have you looked at or considered the way the formula is being allocated so that communities that need those extra teachers in the community which is over and above the student-pupil ratio is going to require extra assistance so that they can find a new teacher or an additional teacher to deal with the high school students, but more importantly, because you don’t have the enrolment numbers you may not be able to meet the criteria that we use now? Is there a possibility of looking at that as an area that we can work with to assist communities that have the problem of having to send their students away to attend high school elsewhere? Is that something the department can look at?
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. This is an area that has been brought to our attention and to this House as well. As you know, the money has been allocated to the school boards, but at the same time I am listening to what the Members are saying, the concerns that have been brought to our attention. We may have to look at those areas. At the same time, we do provide grade extensions as well. Based on the number of students, we can provide funding so they can kick-start grade extensions in their home community. Again, it all depends on the students, if they want to pursue, whether it be Inuvik or a bigger, larger centre, it will be their choice to do that. The money would flow with them, meaning the school board would lose money but the bigger centres will gain funding based on the number of students. Mr. Chair, this is an area that has been brought up before. I need to look at this and see where we can go with it. Mahsi.
Mr. Chairman, also, hopefully the Minister can look at finding ways through technology such as taking courses on-line, also getting tutors in the schools. We have adult education programs in our communities. Tsiigehtchic is getting a new facility being built right now. Hopefully it will be operational pretty quickly. Again, it is right next to the schools. I think if you can facilitate the Adult Education Program with the high school students, keep them in the communities, maybe consider on-line courses, there are ways you can get around this problem.
It is a stressful situation that I go through every fall with the parents of the community of Tsiigehtchic having to send their students away and finding out they are dropping out before Christmas. They go back home and basically that is the end of their education career. I don’t think we want that. Can the Minister seriously look at this issue? I think that we can’t simply say we will give the money to the education boards and it is up to them. I don’t think it is up to them; I think it is up to us. We are the ones that are approving the budget here. Those are the types of things we have to find ways of ensuring that we can actually meet the goals that were set in previous Assemblies to try and have K to 12 in all schools. We know it is not going to be a perfect model everywhere, but at least let’s make an effort to try and accomplish that one way or the other.
I would just like to have the Minister consider on-line programs, and more importantly take advantage of the adult education programs that we have in the communities in the facilities that are there and maybe do a joint effort between adult education, high school, on-line and any other means of providing that additional support to keep our students in our home communities. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, I agree that we need to work together on this as well. There is a community learning centre that is coming up in Tsiigehtchic, as the Member indicated. It is next to the school. There can be shared resources. This has been also brought up through the college venue. The president has indicated that they are willing to work with our department and also the communities that have community learning centres that we can share with high schools. It is in the works.
I totally agree with the Member on the courses on-line. We need to promote more of that. I do believe there is a press release by Mr. Miltenberger on this broadband. We are exploring various areas, but the message here... The tutoring is another area that is under Literacy Strategy 2008-2018. We have highlighted that as well. I have been pressuring my department to have more tutoring into the small, isolated communities because I know there is a struggle there at times, because we can’t deliver in class on Biology 30 or Physics 30. It has to be on-line. So we are fully aware of that. It has been brought up with the Aboriginal Student Achievement Initiative as well. Those are areas that we will continue to explore. I am glad the Member is raising that issue again. We will continue to work with that, Mr. Chairman. Mahsi.
Mr. Chairman, I would just like to echo concerns of the Member for Nahendeh in regard to the languages report that was put forward to your department to a whole bunch of recommendations looking at the area of declining Aboriginal languages, especially the ones that are finding themselves in pretty near threatened languages, such as the Gwich’in and Inuvialuktun. Again, I think sometimes we may have to take some drastic measures.
I applaud the French in regards to the court case, because it seems like they have a ton of attention, a lot of resources going into that. I think we have to realize that we have languages that are threatened. They deserve just as much attention as the French, in regard to the court case. I think that, for myself, we do have to look at the recommendations of the special committee that was put forward and recommendations tabled in this House and moving on some of those recommendations and the urgency of it and also working with the local language organizations in regards to cultural societies and whatnot, because I know that they have concerns that they haven’t really seen an increase over the years. But they are also trying to do their part to revive as many languages as they can, and working with the limited resources and basically asking for an increase so that they can take on the challenge but putting the resources forward. I would just like to put that out there to the Minister. I think that is something that we have to be cognizant of and not lose sight that there are threatened languages out there. I think we have to do whatever we can to revive those languages, but more importantly, get them into being more working languages in our communities, bring them back to the stature that they had in the past and make sure those languages are not only symbolic but also working languages that are functioning in our communities.
Again, I would like to leave that with the Minister and see if we can move on some of these recommendations, but more importantly, make more investments into the Aboriginal language area. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, this is a very important area for our department. It is one of the priorities to revitalize our official languages more specifically on the Aboriginal languages. We have nine Aboriginal languages in the Northwest Territories. That is the very reason why we have initiated this Aboriginal Languages Strategy. The session that we’ve had last year, March and April, the whole purpose was to capture and also revitalize our Aboriginal languages. I totally agree with the Member; there are recommendations brought to our attention and tabled in the House here. We are currently working on some of those recommendations from within our department to expenditure and planning for next year’s budget as well. Mr. Chairman, it is in the works that we will continue with that to revitalize our Aboriginal languages. That is the key aspect within our department. Mahsi, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Next I have Mr. Bromley.
