Mr. Chairman, I appreciate those comments. Of course, the reason we have those fees is because there is a high cost of living in the North and I am sure it is not a surprise when people hear that it is not just aboriginal people that can rely on wild game for their main protein source. I think the intent was to keep that accessible. That is just a comment, Mr. Chairman. I will throw that out for consideration when we think about raising licence fees. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. We are on page 13-9, Environment and Natural Resources, revenue summary, information item. Are there any questions?
Agreed.
We are moving on to page 13-10, again, information item, Environment and Natural Resources, active position summary. Are there any questions? Mr. Yakeleya.
Just on the increase of active positions from 187 to 194. Could the Minister elaborate a little bit on the increase?
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Minister.
Mr. Chairman, I have a list of all of the new positions in the regions in headquarters. I would be happy to share those and seasonal positions. I could read them for the record if you like or I can just agree to share it with the committee.
Thank you, Mr. Minister, for providing that information. We could circulate it. Mr. Yakeleya, do you have any other questions?
No, thank you.
Okay, we are on page 13-10, active position summary, information item. Are there any questions?
Agreed.
We are moving on to page 13-13, Environment and Natural Resources, activity summary, corporate management, operations expenditure summary, $14.366 million. Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to talk to the issue here, the first one being the land and water management, more specific to the water management with the transboundary agreements that are being discussed with the governments and other governments here and the amount of I call it in our language, poison, this fluid coming down the south part of this Territory in the Slave River into the Slave Lake and down the Mackenzie River. I think I want to ask if there are any types of strong monitoring and provisions in place that we could monitor the effects of the chemicals coming down. I want to ask the Minister in terms of how we are dealing with this issue here.
We may not see too much of the issue here, but the people down the Mackenzie Valley here, the region I represent, rely a lot on this river here. We are very concerned, especially when I heard on the radio, CBC, that Fort Good Hope had a fish study. It looks pretty scary, the water and the fish and that. I think this should be deemed as an emergency measure in terms of putting in some strong mechanisms and tell the B.C. government to put their garbage somewhere else, not down the Mackenzie River. What is this in terms of giving strength to this Minister here, the government here, to put a strong mechanism in place to say you are no longer allowed to dump your garbage in the Mackenzie River? There are people out here that survive on this as we survive on caribou. This is something that is very important to us. If there is no good water, how are we going to live?
We have to follow what our elders are talking about this water here. That is one question I want to ask the Minister. This is really important to me and my people, good water even down to the Beaufort Sea. Our people’s lives are depending on this. I’m fed up with the Alberta government, B.C. government dumping their garbage in our system here. What can we do in terms of protest or put a good strong stance to this Alberta tar sands and other stuff that say divert your rear somewhere else. I don’t want them to stick a handle on this issue because poison is poison, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Minister.
Mr. Chairman, this is a very important issue which is why collectively we agreed to spend the money we have and the time and resources. We are very close to the final phases of signing off our draft Water Strategy which will no longer be draft. It will be our policy base and then we also have money in the budget to look at implementing throughout the whole Mackenzie River basin.
The issue of adequate monitoring is a very significant issue, not only the amount of monitoring but are we monitoring for the right things. Dr. Schindler just completed a fairly extensive downstream assessment of water and aquatic ecosystems below and flowing north into the Slave and raised significant red flags. Our challenge now is to work with the territorial government, the federal government, and other interested parties. There are universities, there are NGOs that are interested in putting money into proper monitoring, increasing our capacity and we want to look at doing that.
We also have money in the budget to initiate our negotiation process now that we completed our Water Strategy, come up with the next plan which is to be able to move to the table with Alberta and B.C. and Saskatchewan to look at negotiating a bilateral agreement as a requirement of the Mackenzie River Basin Transboundary Agreement.
We also recognize, as well, that there is a growing number of issues in the Peel watershed. While we have a bilateral agreement there, it is somewhat dated and we are going to be looking at that to see if it is as effective, as we think it should be given all that we now know about water and the interest and concern about water.
Those are some of the plans for the future. We also have money in the budget within communities as well to continue to work through MACA and Public Works as well as ENR to make sure that, from the tap to the headwaters, we have the safest water possible. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, I am from the old school of learning in terms of the traditional law that is being spoken to us by people in the communities, the elders. You start to see reports back that what I did in Fort Good Hope in terms of the fish and the affects of the chemicals coming into the water here, I do look forward to seeing when we have a final document in terms of the transboundary agreements with the provinces. It still doesn’t answer my question in terms of the debris that is coming down into the Athabasca into the Slave into the Great Slave Lake which will eventually flow into the Mackenzie River which would flow right out to the Beaufort Sea. What are we going to do in terms of strong monitoring effect, studies that we have in the water?
We are going to have no people in the Mackenzie here. The Minister is giving a good outline as to what possibly could happen. However, I want something that is solid, concrete and would say, yes, this is what we are going to do. We are going to affect the quality of our water. Take water out of the Mackenzie now. In one year or two years down the road, it will be the same quality of water. You won’t see the increase of chemicals that are being infected into the Mackenzie River water. That is what I am looking for.
Mr. Chairman, two things to be more specific, within the Northwest Territories there is an extensive amount of water monitoring done but it is fragmented across very many departments and different levels of government. One of the plans is within the Territory to come up with a comprehensive water monitoring strategy that will identify all the resources, how do we better link them and identify the gaps of what needs to be better monitored. The other critical piece is going to be the negotiations on the bilateral agreement with Alberta and B.C. where we are going to be coming to the table with the questions, those types of questions about water quality and making sure that the right type of testing is done. It is not just a matter of checking to see how much Javex you need in your water anymore. We are now looking at exotic chemicals, naphthenic acids, aromatic polycyclic, aromatic carbons, things floating down from the sky, so things that we never contemplated, could hardly even spell a couple of years ago. It now rolls off our tongue because we are concerned about them. Those are the things we are looking at trying to work with Alberta in our bilateral. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, the other issue I want to look at is with the land use planning in terms of the draft and the Sahtu is going through their process of the land use plans and they are looking forward to seeing a finalized and signed document so that oil companies and oil and gas companies, mining companies and other potential developers could have a plan we can all follow. People in the region are looking forward to it. How soon can we see a land use plan from the Sahtu region being finished? Do any other regions also have land use plans that are looking forward to being completed? When can we have a document that is the completed land use plan for the Northwest Territories?
Mr. Chairman, the intent of the government’s land use framework is to help us as a government get our thinking clear when we go to the tables with the regions and the aboriginal governments so that we can be a constructive proactive partner at the table. That document and that work is coming to the stage where I think we are almost ready to see the draft. We are working with Gwich’in, the Sahtu, the Deh Cho, as we speak, the Inuvialuit, on their land use plans. Maybe the deputy minister could speak to where we are with the Sahtu land use plans. Thank you.
Deputy minister.
Mr. Chairman, we have been working with the Sahtu and the other regions that are working on land use planning. Our understanding is that we are several months away from having a final Sahtu land use plan. Part of it is because of the incorporation of the Great Bear plan around for Deline and with the broader Sahtu land use plan. As soon as we bring some of that together, we are going to be looking forward to seeing a completion of the Sahtu land use plan, Mr. Chairman.
We are on page 13-13, corporate management, operations expenditure summary, activity summary, $14.366 million.
Agreed.
We are moving on to page 13-14, Environment and Natural Resources, activity summary, corporate management, grants and contributions, contributions, total grants, $175,000. Mr. Yakeleya.
On the question of the interim resource management systems program agreement, we don’t show that we are going to have resources. Is this due to the limited funding of this or just the agreement ran out here? I say it because the description shows the importance of aboriginal communities on settled land claim areas and participating in land and resource management process affecting their surrounding land use areas. I know that we have been dealing with the caribou issue here. This is kind of an important issue. I don’t see any funding towards this. I just want to ask the Minister for an explanation as to why we are not throwing any dollars to this item here.
Mr. Minister.
Mr. Chairman, that money will be reflected in the revised estimates once the agreements are signed. At this point, they haven’t been signed but the funding will be reflected. There is money there. We are just with the federal government. We are just concluding that process.
Okay. I will try this again. Contributions, total grants, $175,000.
Agreed.
Total grants and contributions, $175,000.
Agreed.
We are moving on to page 13-15. Information item, corporate management, active positions.
Agreed.
Page 13-17. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My first question here is on the energy efficiency technologies and alternative energy sources. I believe we have a number of rebate programs that enable consumers to get some help replacing less energy efficient appliances with better efficiency items. I am wondering what the uptake is on that program, if those dollars that are available in those programs are fully subscribed from year to year. Thank you.
Deputy Minister Bohnet.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Not all of the programs have seen the uptake they have in previous years. It has slowly been declining but the example, the EEIP, Energy Efficient Incentive Program, 763 rebates for a total of $262,000 and $137,000 for residential heating or hot water rebates. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, if there are areas that our uptake is declining, is there a formula or a mechanism in place to ensure that those funds get put into an area where there is more interest in or perhaps a new area that we haven’t assisted on?
Minister of Environment.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, we are monitoring it to make sure that we look at the gaps for where there’s a need. If there’s a declining need, we’re going to move the funds to where they’re most needed.
I wonder if the Minister could provide us with a sheet updating us if there is a trend that’s evident now what that trend is looking like. If there are things that have been added to the things that we’re subsidizing through the rebate program recently, it would be good to see that. Something that lets us know what the uptake is and the trend. That would be great. Maybe I’ll wait for a response on that before moving on here.
We’ll provide that list of all the subsidy programs to committee.
It will be good to see the pattern of updates there. On the biomass side of things, I believe that’s in this section. I believe the department is developing a Biomass Strategy. I have questions about that. Where are we at with our capacity for implementing such a strategy and is that something that’s appropriately talked about in this division? I’ll just start with that.
I would take your direction, but this is the area where biomass would be covered. We’re looking at tabling in this House, I believe Thursday, the Biomass Strategy. We have a range of capacity for implementation. Public Works, when we do their department, will show that the renovations and retrofits they have done have been very successful. We’re still working with communities to conclude the community energy plans and the other thing we have to make a decision on this year is the whole issue of picking a technology to go into communities. We’re interested in biomass for heat, eventually biomass for electricity. We’re looking at expanded projects up north where we can do a better job, improved job on waste recovery. Those projects we now are far enough along that we have to make some decisions on actually doing it and not just planning about it.
The Minister touched on some of my other questions. Really it’s land access that’s recognized to be a real issue here. Perhaps the strategy will deal with that again. My understanding is that will take the involvement of other departments as well, and maybe the participation of aboriginal governments. While I’m at it, the sustainable harvest levels, I think we had a lot of research to be done through our forestry group and perhaps we can touch on that when we get there. Any comments on those things would be appreciated.
Just in terms of implementation capacity for the Biomass Strategy, I’m wondering if we’ve assessed whether we have the people in place to ensure rapid and effective progress on that strategy. What does it take to get pellet manufacturing in place and so on? Whatever the strategy calls for.
This year we intend to do very specific things. For example, the Arctic Energy Alliance is going to be going into the communities to set up workshops for training and certification programs for wood burning appliance installers and inspectors, as well as looking at how to facilitate the delivery and supply of wood pellets to remote communities. We’re going to work with the forest management division to conduct woodlot planning and inventory activities to assist once again with the firewood and wood pellet production business development.
We want to work with communities once again, through the environment division, to prepare business plans for electrical power and heat distribution cogeneration systems biomass supply. I think we’ve put almost a million dollars into this area to try to move forward on this.
The capacity issue is twofold. There is the capacity issue of the government to get the planning in place and get the support in place, but the other capacity issue is communities. Once you have more detailed and thorough discussions about biomass, the recognition that it’s going to require a significant commitment if you’re going to move to biomass. For example, in Jean Marie River the chief was telling us the difficulty of, the enthusiasm, some people have moved. Those that were keen aren’t necessarily around. The concern is to commit to that type of change of infrastructure also requires a significant community commitment. And there are capacity issues there as well. So those are two areas we have to work on as we move forward.
I appreciate the Minister’s remarks. The Minister did list quite a number of important steps that are going to be required. I know there are more that he’s aware of. That is an issue. I think the potential for big gains here in community energy systems is huge, but it’s going to take quite a bit of education and support to enjoy the realization of those opportunities. Obviously a cross-departmental approach again with ITI and other departments. I’m glad the Minister is thinking about that I look forward to perhaps a briefing on the Biomass Strategy and next steps there.
More of a comment. We’re on page 13-17. Mr. Yakeleya.
Mr. Chairman, the one issue... Actually, there are two. The one I want to talk to the Minister about is the contaminated hazardous sites and solid hazardous waste management. I did send a note over to the Minister a couple days ago about the issue of old vehicles in our communities and if there’s a possibility of this department looking at a plan for how to get rid of these old vehicles. I know they have some type of machine that can eat up these old vehicles and put them into scrap metal and take them out on barges. I know this was an issue with the community of Deline. They asked if I would ask the Minister, as this is an issue that they want to look at as something that this government could do in terms of sharing. One community would have this and then it would go to the next community and so forth. I want to ask the Minister on his efforts to look at recyclables, such as the things he has done before which are really good, if this is something he might look at on a larger scale for the smaller communities. I’m not sure what the cost would be to have this type of operation. However, these landfill sites are pretty well full of other vehicles that have been there since the ‘50s and ‘60s. Is that something he would consider to move forward on this initiative of a clean environment in our communities and in the North?
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Miltenberger.
