Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Lafferty.
I can definitely give you a good response, Mr. Chair. This is part of the plan for the Aboriginal Student Achievement Initiative. There is also the Aboriginal Languages Strategy that has been before this House. Implementing those is part of the discussions we are having, and elders in schools. This money that has been allocated, $148 million, that’s for the school boards. They have to set their priorities, but there are other initiatives on the way and it does highlight the elders that the Member is referring to. Mahsi.
Would we then see the elders in our schools this fall? Thank you.
We are still working on the ASA forum to wrap up by May. So more than likely, we may not see it this fall because we still have to work with the budget process. The working group is from last summer and the fall. Definitely that’s one of the targets that we’ve been discussing at the regional forums. The Member has raised that issue with us and it is part of the discussion in the regions. Almost all regions have raised elders in schools, so definitely that will come out in the package, I’m sure. Mahsi.
The issue with the elders, it looks like it’s going to be another year longer. We’ve been talking for a couple of years on this. It seems so simple, yet we make it so complicated to put elders into our schools. We talk about our culture; we talk about tradition, supporting seniors or elders. Somehow when it’s in our government system it makes it very difficult, because there are so many rules and regulations that prevent an elder from coming into our school to teach, to get them in the system. Certainly this system shows me that it doesn’t really support our elders. We say it’s nice, we say it’s good, but we certainly don’t do it. That’s my point here. A lot of these elders, we want them in our schools. They come in voluntarily, but then the federal government hits them because if they earn pay, they get a reduction in their pension cheques. The elders also complain to us that the teachers are there, they get paid, so we should also get paid for passing on the information, knowledge. Not like the old days. A lot of these elders also pass away. We say we wish we had them in there.
I like what the Minister is saying, but not too much because it’s next year, the year after. So I’m going to have to wait, I guess, until the new government comes. I sure hope these words that he’s saying can be put in strongly by his department so the elders can actually go in the school. Why it takes so long, I don’t understand. Put them in the school. You want our kids to stay in school and help? We have it right there, but we’re not doing it.
So I sure hope the Minister can sit with his officials again and figure out a way to do something, because they certainly work fast on other issues. The system supports them. But not for our elders. That’s a shame of this government here, this department. That, I truly can say. We can’t say much. It’s like beating a dead horse in terms of trying to put elders into our school. I’ve been up here how many times? Next year it’s this, it’s this. Still can’t see them in our school system.
I’m passionate about it because a lot of good elders passed away in our communities that should have taught in our schools. I do support the Minister to work as much as he can to make this a reality. I thought for sure we were going to do it within this government, within this Assembly, but that’s not the case. So again, I’ll just say to the Minister you’re the man, make it happen. You’ve got the power. People are going to support you. It’s our education. It’s our culture. You can do it. But it seems that we have to wait longer again.
I want to thank you for listening to my frustration. Hopefully we can do something.
Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. I guess this is also my passion. I’d love to have those elders in the school. We have to work with it with the school boards. We have asked for different options on how we can work around the system where their pensions are not clawed back. I don’t have control over the federal pension. We have to pay these elders if they want to work or else they’re not going to work. Of course, they’re penalized for that. We’ve been trying to work around the system of how we can work with them so they’re not penalized. We talk about possibly a gift to them at the end of the school year. Those are areas. Also going through maybe the local band for us to contribute to them and they can pay the elders.
I know Members addressed this to us on a number of occasions. This is not an easy process. It is taking some time. We are not giving up on this. I know Nunavut has also initiated this process but they’re still struggling with the same dilemma that we’re faced with. It’s not just us, it’s other jurisdictions as well. We are still exploring those options of how we can get around from penalizing those elders.
We want them in the schools very badly. As the Member alluded, we are losing our elders. We need to fully utilize their services and their expertise, their experience. We want to do that. That is our commitment as the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. We’ll continue to push that.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. We’ve been discussing Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, education and culture, grants and contributions, pages 10-18, 10-19 and 10-20, for the sum of $164.926 million. Let’s just agree page by page here. Page 10-18, agreed?
Agreed.
Page 10-19, agreed?
Agreed.
Page 10-20, agreed?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Page 10-21, Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, information item, education and culture, active positions.
Agreed.
Page 10-23, Education, Culture and Employment. Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to ask the Minister if there was a greater demand for apprenticeship and occupations. I notice that there’s a slight increase in the budget from 2010-2011 to 2011-2012. I’m wondering if the demand would have required a greater increase had the department met the demand of all of the other departments and agencies where an apprenticeship, even private business, I guess, everywhere where apprentice could be placed.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Daniels.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The slight increase on that budget line reflects more of forced growth because of collective bargaining increases. We have had some increased investments in the Apprenticeship Program in recent years to help pay for the increased uptake of apprentices. We have the highest number of apprentices now than we’ve had in any year prior. We’ve also had some increases added to the budget to help pay for the increased costs associated with the training. The school fees, for example.
Does the department refuse any requests from private business or other departments to bring apprentices on? For example, the local housing organizations.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. I’m sure that the information that the Member is sharing, we’re not aware of if any individuals have been declined.
I was asking if the department has declined any other department or private company from a request to take on an apprentice. Like I said, I used an example of an LHO. Right now we have a dire need for tradespeople in the small communities and we have tradespeople that are getting to the age where they could potentially be retiring within a four-year period. We need to bring apprentices on in order to accommodate the future needs of tradespeople in the small communities. My request is if the housing associations and authorities were to request tradesmen right across the board, I believe there’s 19 housing associations or authorities, maybe 21, but each of them have tradespeople and I’m wondering if every tradesperson that is a carpenter, oil burner mechanic, or plumber that even works for the government, as an example we could start there, have an apprentice attached to them.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Daniels.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It would be hard to say but I don’t believe that every tradesperson that works in the different organizations would necessarily have an apprentice attached to that tradesperson.
Just shifting gears a bit into the career and employment development. I noticed a fairly substantial increase. I think that’s very positive. Maybe a 30 percent increase in the budget here. I’m pleased to hear that. Is that increase due to employment programs in the small communities or is this increase something else?
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. That category would be due to the new initiative, the Small Community Employment Support Program.
I’m very pleased to hear that. I have a question for the Minister on the same area, employment development. I’m wondering if the Minister or the department has an employment development strategy for each of the small communities like… That’s good for now. I’ll ask that question now.
We don’t have the specifics in place yet but we are developing a framework to work on that within our department to work with the small communities.
Does the department, in looking at working this area of career and employment development, use the NWT Vital Statistics to determine where greater amounts of effort have to be put? I’ll give you an example: if we have communities with employment rates of approximately 70 to 80 percent, I’m suggesting that there doesn’t really need to be a strategy or anything, and obviously the economic wheel is moving fine on its own and the process is getting through without any difficulty. With employment rates in the 30 and 40 percent, as is common in the small communities, I’m wondering if the department is using those stats and making decisions that affect this budget area.
The stats that we use could be part of the tools to determine the funding for these small community employment support initiatives. Then other information that we also gather and collect determines the funding as well. As I stated, we are developing a plan for the small community employment support programming.
I’m wondering if the department has done any work with other departments in the sense that... Let’s use the Department of Environment and Natural Resources. Maybe a more common one could be the Housing Corporation or possibly Public Works and Services or any of those works departments. I’m wondering if the Department of Education, Culture and Employment works with any of those departments in the creation, using, like, I guess I use the term sort of like a critical mass I suppose, to use the various things that have to happen in the small communities and around the small communities. An example, if the Housing Corporation is trying to fix 10 homeownership units and is attempting to put $50,000 or $60,000 into these units, then would this department work with them to ensure that they could develop an employment program out of something like that that could be not just one summer job but rather a long-term job? Because there’s lots of work in all the areas if you’re going to clean up all the waste sites around Tu Nedhe. Environment, as an example, there would be lots of work for operators and whatnot. I’m wondering if the department discussed these employment items with other departments.
Again the framework that we are working on would consist of industries, Aboriginal governments, and it could also include the departments as well. Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is sufficient in this area for now. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Next on my list I have Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have similar questions to Mr. Beaulieu. We seem to have the same challenges in our ridings, especially where we are seeing high pockets of unemployment in excess of 45 percent. Yet investment in regards to training and apprenticeship positions and allocations of those programs and where they seem to be expending a lot of those dollars are at the large regional centres where you look at where the people are being certified and whatnot. In most cases the larger centres, where you basically have people that are getting into the trades, people that work with different employers and whatnot and also large projects by way of capital infrastructure are in the larger centres, but yet, Mr. Chairman, I think that we also have to re-profile the dollar expenditures on where there is highest need, such as the high needs by way of unemployment statistics.
I think that something that sort of shocked me is that government employees, regardless if they are P1, P2 or P3, are paid less than the different levels from, say, $60,000 for a P1 to basically $85,000 for a P2. A $20,000 difference simply because the class that you have been hired under and the reason for that is probably because of the education levels are different from a P1 individual that is, say, somebody that is basically P2 or P3.
Again, I think it is important that we have to ensure that we invest these advanced education dollars to ensure that we have capacity in our communities. I think, also, that you have to reflect on the employment, full-time job opportunities and the in-migration and out-migration, and in-migration by way of this different staffing you are talking teachers, you are talking settlement administrative officer are basically trained professions where we still have a high dependence of importing a lot of that workforce.
Again, we have to invest in the communities to ensure that we have the capacity to take on those positions. More importantly, offer the residents in our communities those opportunities and take advantage of those opportunities by ensuring that we are investing in career and employment development and investing those dollars correctly in regards to the $45 million.
I would just like to ask the Minister exactly what are we doing to basically re-profile these dollars on where we see high unemployment levels and where we basically can invest those dollars to ensure people are getting the adequate training and support they need to take advantage of the northern economy and job opportunities in the Northwest Territories.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. This particular area has been brought to our attention and it is part of the reason why we have initiated the framework to identify where it is highly needed, apprenticeship training and employment in small communities, and it consists of industries, Aboriginal governments and corporations, bands and also the departments. We need to identify those needs in collaboration amongst the groups and identify the highest needs in certain areas. We have heard that so we are developing the framework to respond to what the Members are saying. Mahsi.
In regards to the area of adult post-secondary education, we have adult education teachers in our communities, but in Fort McPherson we also have a program called Success in which what they do is they take students that have dropped out of the school system, are unemployed or on income support or whatnot, and reroute them through another program where it is being federally funded through the band in Fort McPherson. We are seeing some major success by way of that program, which is duplicating or doing the same as what adult education should be doing in our communities, but yet they don’t have students in adult education but the Success program is booked with students that have fallen through the cracks and dropped out of school at some point in their lives but now they are reintegrating themselves back into the education model and working themselves back into the workforce.
I would just like to know, how often do we re-evaluate these programs in our communities and the possibility of re-profiling those programs and restructuring them to meet the needs of the communities and programs that do work and are showing success, that we are able to either duplicate or in some cases re-profile some of these adult education dollars so that we can try to hit the majority of people that are going to require those additional resources, especially in the area of upgrading, and are basically people that have dropped out of the education system and are not trying, as young adults, to get themselves back into the system. I would just like to know if that is something that the department is doing and looking at re-evaluating that program in regards to adult and post-secondary education.
Yes, we are doing an overall review of the ALBE Program right now and we want to have some final word on what the linkage could be. We are also working closely with Aurora College. I have met with the board, I have met with the president and identified the concerns that the Member has raised and also other Members, that we need to do more than just ALBE Program in a community and to strengthen the ALBE Program that we have. I have seen some changes just since last year. I have been through small communities, community learning centres, every time I have opportunity to visit a community. I like to visit the schools and also the community learning centres as much as I can. My recent visit to one of the communities, they were doing an ALBE basic education programming, but at the same time there was language being taught in the classroom as well, aside from the ALBE Program, so reintegrating those programs as well. I think we are going to see some more changes, more program delivered at the community learning centres. Mahsi.
Again, I think that we have to get better use of our facilities in communities such as adult learning centres and schools wherever possible, if that means sharing space or sharing a service centre such as a computer centre, and I think that we have to be able to get as much usage out of these facilities, especially in most cases, you know, the schools are shut down in the summer, pretty well locked down in most cases, and the same thing with the adult education centres. I think that is a perfect opportunity, especially for children that are struggling and if we can find a way to get them into summer programs and assist them so that when they go back to school in the fall time, hopefully they can catch up and give them those skills that they are going to need to realize that they are successful at whatever you want to do. Just put your mind to it and put a little more effort into it.
I think that we have to get more mileage out of our infrastructure in our communities and, wherever possible, joint share resources regardless of what federal dollars we get either through band funding or dollars we are able to acquire through federal funds through the unemployment insurance funding or even looking at funds that come by way of federal infrastructure funding.
I think we are realizing the importance of having a qualified workforce when it comes to these large projects, regardless of whether we are talking pipelines or even if we are challenged with filling just the positions in the area of the mining industry. I think, if anything, because we do have a young population, that we are going to have to find a way of getting as many people into the system but taking advantage of the infrastructure that we do have, because we cannot continue to build infrastructure. If anything, we have to get better use of that infrastructure.
So I think it is something that we have to be aware of going forward, but also make as much use of those facilities as we can while they’re in our communities and not have them locked up for any long periods of time simply because it’s the end of the school year or whatever. We have to use those facilities whenever possible. Thank you.
Mr. Chair, I totally agree with the Member. This is an area that we have explored and we are currently working the college as well. Community learning centres fall under the college, but there have been talks about the schools -- the schools are open during the school year but closed during the summer -- how we can take advantage of that during the summer months. There have been talks about different programming over the summer months so there can be continuity.
One obstacle that’s also in the way is the union issue where teachers, once they finish school they’re off over the summer, but there’s talk about maybe possibly hiring individuals that can teach just over the summer months. Those are some of the areas that we are exploring, Mr. Chair. Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Next I have Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I had many of the same concerns that were raised by Mr. Beaulieu and Mr. Krutko. I think we have the opportunity to really support those apprentices in our small communities, in particular, that can help us to address many of our goals. I think it would be good when developing this policy for apprentices or reviewing it or supporting it further to consider, and possibly best presented by way of example, the oil burner mechanics are rare and yet there’s a huge opportunity for fuel savings that can be a huge impact in small communities where employment is low and incomes are low. That sort of thing. The sorts of things that we’re having decreasing demand for as, for example, biomass systems enter communities more and more. Those sorts of skills that go with that. I’m not the best qualified to say that, but I think looking in that direction can make this a more effective policy. That’s just by way of a comment.
I wanted to ask briefly about the Student Financial Assistance program review. Have the terms of reference been developed for that and will we have an opportunity for some input to that? Maybe I’ll start with that. Thank you.
Minister of Education, Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. The review will be undertaken once we go through this budget, once it’s approved, and the terms of reference will be drafted up. Certainly, the Members should have some input into the system as with the students. I’ve stated in the House that we will be reaching out to the general public and the students, because we need to hear specifically from the students as well. By all means, if Members can contribute, that will be great. Mahsi.
I appreciate that correction too. Will the planning for the review take place in 2011-12? Is that when the terms of reference, for example, would be developed and so on, or is that anticipated to start in the current fiscal year? Thank you
Mr. Chair, the SFA review and also the terms of reference, the terms of reference will be drafted up. We are looking at ‘11 and ‘12. Mahsi.
I want to touch base with an ongoing perennial topic of interest the Minister has heard me and the Standing Committee on Social Program bring to his attention on several occasions and that’s the development of these programs for renewable energy technicians and sustainable community administrators. At one point I was interviewed by a contractor doing a study on that and that was probably six months or more ago, but I’m wondering where things are at, if there’s some action being taken to develop those programs. I think the Minister’s aware that we have $60 million slotted for energy concerns that would fall in line with this and, obviously, the City of Yellowknife is spending tens of millions of dollars in this area. You talk to the Association of Communities, they’re marching along in these sorts of areas. If I can get an update on that from the Minister. Thank you.
Mr. Chair, yes, we did follow through when the Member raised that issue in the House and also through the committee. We shared that with the college, Aurora College, and they are exploring and reviewing the different programming pertaining to sustainable energy. The Member also touched on other areas as well, biomass and oil burner mechanic and renewable resource energy tech. Those are areas that have been highlighted by the Member and the college is currently exploring that. We’re also exploring through the University of the Arctic as well. We just had a recent trip over there with the college and they have some information that they’ve received from them. Definitely, they are looking into that, Mr. Chair, through the University of Alaska. That’s an area that we will continue to push. Mahsi.
