Page 12-13, Industry, Tourism and Investment activity summary, corporate management, operations expenditure summary, $7.52 million.
Agreed.
Committee agrees. Page 12-14, information time, Industry, Tourism and Investment, corporate management, active positions.
Agreed.
Page 12-17, activity summary, Industry, Tourism and Investment, minerals and petroleum resources, operations expenditure summary, $6.558 million. Agreed?
Agreed.
Page 12-19, activity summary, Industry, Tourism and Investment, minerals and petroleum resources, grants and contributions, contributions, $995,000.
Agreed.
Committee agree?
Agreed.
Page 12-19, Industry, Tourism and Investment, information item, minerals and petroleum resources, active positions. Questions? Mr. Krutko.
With regard to energy, I noted in the Minister’s opening comments he talked about residual heat in Inuvik and also for Fort Liard. I would like to ask the Minister what about those communities that have already looked at that business venture. There already is a business in the Inuvik region that specializes in residual heat. It’s Aadrii Energy which is a joint venture between the Gwich’in Development Corporation and Northwest Territories Power Corporation. I’m just wondering, have you spoken to that organization. I noted that you have Inuvik mentioned, but believe we have had discussions with the people in the Gwich’in Tribal Council, because it is one of their business arms.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Just to be clear, I believe you’re on the next activity. We’re on page 12-19, minerals and petroleum resources. Is that right, Mr. Krutko?
Yes, I’m on the next page; energy.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. So just to be clear once again, committee, page 12-19, activity summary, Industry, Tourism and Investment, information item, minerals and petroleum resources, active positions. Questions? Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just for clarification on this one here, I take it these positions are in the South Slave and are to do with our office in Hay River that people are responsible for the potential Mackenzie Gas Project. These are the positions.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That’s correct. These are six positions for the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline office that are located in Hay River.
The work that they are doing to support the initiatives of the proponents to build the pipeline, these are positions that people here do go into the various other regions that the pipeline will be impacting, the communities that will be impacted by the potential pipeline.
This office helps coordinate the activities throughout the government and is also responsible for coordinating with community governments and aboriginal governments. So they have been travelling to the different communities to update them on what’s been happening with the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Is that it? Page 12-19, activity summary, Industry, Tourism and Investment, information item, minerals and petroleum resources, active positions. Questions?
Agreed.
Page 12-21, Industry, Tourism and Investment, activity summary. Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just following up on what I was saying earlier that there are already people in the business of providing residual heat in the communities, there is a company that’s established with the Gwich’in Development Corporation called Aadrii Energy, which is a joint venture between the Gwich’in Development Corporation and the Northwest Territories Power Corporation, who provides residual heat in Fort McPherson. They’ve put some $3 million or $4 million into this company and I’d just like to ask the Minister, I note that you have Inuvik listed in the suggested projects for residual heat and I’d like to know if we’re going to be working with this company to offer them the opportunity to expand their business or are we going to be competing against them by getting into a business that we already are a partner in for residual heat and specializing in that area. I’d like to ask the Minister if he has spoken to the Gwich’in Development Corporation or the Power Corporation and offered them the opportunity to expand their business opportunities in the Inuvik region. Inuvik is in the Gwich’in Settlement Region and this is a Gwich’in company.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. McLeod.
. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Residual heat projects are a very important component of our alternative energy framework. I’d just like to point out that in 2009 we allocated $1.3 million for the Fort Liard Residual Heat Project and in 2010-2011 $800,000 will be used to complete the Fort Liard project and $1 million is allocated for the Inuvik project. The Fort McPherson Residual Heat Project is a success story today. As the Member indicated, the system is a 50-50 joint venture. Right now investigations on upgrading the school service and moving to 100 percent is in the works. We’re also looking at a $40,000 retrofit for heat exchangers at the school. I understand there are also options for supplementing the system with a wood pellet boiler. My understanding is that we’re working with the company that the Member mentioned.
There have been discussions between the Minister and the president of the Gwich’in Development Corporation on the opportunity of the Inuvik project to provide residual heat to the new government office located adjacent to the power plant. I think that also the band office is just down the street from the power plant and they are looking at the possibility of joining those facilities around the power plant in Inuvik through a proposal similar to what they did in Fort McPherson. Have you approached Deze or Aadrii Energy to look at that as a possible business opportunity as they are already involved in it? Have those discussions taken place?
My understanding is there have been discussions to connect the new Public Works and Services office building. The total cost is $1.5 million. Certainly, we’re interested in all of these kinds of residual heat projects. My understanding is that NTPC has been in discussions with the project managers and I would certainly be interested in these types of projects.
I noted that these projects seem to be one-offs, where we’re starting one here and one there. Do we have a long-term projected plan of how we’re going to look at expanding these systems in other communities? I know that the community of Tsiigehtchic has raised this at the Beaufort leaders’ meeting, because they have a fire hall right next to the power plant. It came up at the Beaufort leaders’ meeting why they can’t get residual heat from the power plant to heat the fire hall, which is the next building over. Right now it’s costing them a lot of money to heat the facility. The power plant’s right next door. Are there plans to offer this residual heat technology to other communities so they can take advantage of the location of their power plants to public facilities around them so we can tie in to those facilities to provide that residual heat?
The energy priorities framework that we had established was expressly for that purpose. The alternative energy framework and the $60 million that was identified over three years was to enable us to undertake pilot projects to show or prove that alternative energy worked here in the Northwest Territories. Residual heat has been proven. As we got further into this we would move into establishing ongoing programs so that we could begin to implement it across the Territories because of the fact that there are short payback periods and it would save government money.
That’s it, thanks.
Next I have on my list, Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just a follow up to Mr. Krutko’s questions. I want to talk about the energy policy. I understand that there is a hydro symposium planned in Deline to look at the different possibilities of the hydro. Hydro has a lot of potential in the Northwest Territories. Actually, in the GNWT’s website it says that the promise of hydro power in the Northwest Territories is estimated to be over 12,000 megawatts. That’s a lot of power that the Northwest Territories could tap into. So I want to ask the Minister here in terms of hydro potential in the North here. I’ll talk a little bit more of the one we’re looking at in the Sahtu, more specifically the Deline mini-hydro project. They’ve been working on this project for the last 16 years and they still wanted to see if it’s a possibility. Of course, there are various opinions as to the technology that wants to be used. There are different arguments on both sides as to which technology should be used. I want to ask the Minister in terms of after 16 years is it safe to say that Deline is very close to constructing a mini-hydro plant? In previous comments made, energy is used elsewhere in the region and it seems like some plants are going to be constructed in terms of reducing the cost of living, but also to help out with the issue of greenhouse gas.
Thanks, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. With regard to the Sahtu hydro assessment, last year in 2009-10 we budgeted $100,000 for the assessment of hydro resources in the Sahtu region. This year, 2010-11, we budgeted $500,000 to work on specific hydro projects and, as the Member indicated, there is a Sahtu symposium being held in Deline this week and what we’re expecting out of the workshop is it would review the findings of the Sahtu hydro assessment. I should point out, and as the Member knows, there are multiple sites in the Sahtu region that are technically feasible to develop such as there are a number of river basins: the Great Bear, Mackenzie, Keele, Mountain, Carcajou, Camsell and Red Stone. As well, there have been some discussions on mini-hydro and so on. So our expectation is that as a result of the Sahtu hydro symposium, we’ll get some direction as to which specific projects we can begin to work on in 2010-11. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I certainly look forward to the start of the potential sites that can produce hydro for the benefit of the people in the North here. The Minister has listed off some sites that I know very well, so it’s good to know that the Minister is up to speed in my region. I look forward to the results of the Sahtu hydro symposium. I mean, not only for our region but also for the Northwest Territories. I hope that we can move, once we have a clear plan and understanding as to what areas of the hydro that we wanted to look into and not be boggled down with various viewpoints as to which hydro or which plant could be used in terms of being feasible for the hydro here.
I wanted to pick up on the point of Mr. Krutko in terms of residual heat initiatives. I know it’s a good initiative. It’s highly costly, I think, to put in the communities or it’s got to be with a partnership. I wanted to ask this Minister, is this something that we need to look at in terms of having a working relationship with the NTPC in terms of working with them and working with the community in terms of an agreement?
With regard to residual heat, most of the thermal communities have NTPC as the operator, so we would have to work in partnership with NTPC and, obviously, if the diesel plants are located in the centre of a community, it’s probably much cheaper to utilize residual heat because you don’t have to pipe it as far and so on. Thank you.
Just a comment that I wanted to run by the Minister here. Mr. Chair, in the JRP recommendations of 176 recommendations, in there there’s a phrase in there that they use in terms of the Inuvik facility, Inuvik compressor facility that has waste energy. I know there’s a facility that’s being planned close to the community of Tulita. Is this something that this government has looked at as a possibility of tapping into the waste heat energy for the community of Tulita? I know there are some discussions around natural gas conversions into the community once, and if, the pipeline is built into Good Hope and Fort Simpson and Tulita. But there’s also an interesting point on the waste heat energy in terms of the community of Tulita benefitting from that by-product, so to speak. Is that something that this government will look at?
No, that’s not something that we’ve looked at. We’ve concentrated more on having outtakes on the pipeline that we could use for community gasification or community gas conversion projects. Also, at one time, we did look at having the compressor stations generated by hydro power, but that was a recommendation that was made by Deline and so… But specifically using residual or waste heat from compressor stations, there will be three compressor stations, from what I understand, in place for the pipeline. So depending on how close it is to the community will probably make the difference whether it was feasible or not. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, certainly the Minister is very correct that at one time that we thought that we could -- and when I say we, we in the Sahtu -- thought that with Sahdae Energy could look at the potential of hydro to feed the compressor stations. Using that, however, doesn’t seem to be getting much attraction from either the community or the proponents, so it’s kind of like it’s a no-go there for now. It may change tomorrow. However, there is a compressor station that’s very close to Tulita. It’s almost going to be like a jet engine, I guess, and close to the community. It’s a loud compressor station and there’s lots of waste. According to the report I’ve read, there’s good potential for using the waste energy to probably be of benefit to the community in terms of tapping into that source there. I’m not going too far with this. I wonder if that’s something that this Minister probably could look at and maybe it’s up to the proponent if they want to look at it.
I know there is a lot of effort being done on the natural gas conversion. There are dollars being spent on this but, you know, it might be a missed opportunity once the pipeline is built and we don’t tap into it. It might be something like, yeah, we should have done it. I’m just asking that, throwing it out and see if the Minister would consider it. If not, then there are other things to look at.
We’re always interested in looking at ways to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. When and if the pipeline goes ahead and when we get the more detailed design, we would certainly be interested in looking at it. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Minister. The chair will recognize Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I want to follow up on some of the energy subjects that are of interest and concern, and I want to preface my remarks by saying I was very impressed with the opening remarks of the Minister and I appreciated many of the things that the department is planning. I think the Minister has been listening to committee.
I want to start with hydro and just ask where are we at with the projects that we have going now, and again I’ll preface that question with a statement that in Lutselk’e we’ve been doing feasibility studies, hundreds of thousands per year since 2001. This is our tenth year and in Whati similarly since 2002. What year are we planning to construct and where are we at at aligning the dollars required for that? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. In Lutselk’e we’re making very good progress and to the extent that we’re investing more money and we’re fast tracking the project, and with regard to the three-year expenditures from ‘09-10 to ‘11-12 we’ll have invested $4 million. So we’re making good progress there.
In Whati we still have to sort out some issues with the Tlicho Government and with the change in leadership. We’re requesting meetings so that we can clarify the direction that the Tlicho Government wants to go to, but we have expended about $250,000. We’re looking at spending about $1.5 million in Whati, Mr. Chair.
It’s good to hear that there’s still attention being directed to these. Again, I’m interested, we’re 10 years down the line, what’s the construction date and do we have the dollars lined up or a strategy laid out for the upfront costs for that construction? Thank you.
For Lutselk’e we’re looking at a start date of 2012-2013. Whati is much more difficult to pinpoint. We also have the Taltson Hydro Project that is undergoing regulatory review and our Hydro Strategy, which we have significant expenditures planned there. If the Member is interested I’ll ask Mr. Vician, through you, Mr. Chair, to go into more detail.
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Vician.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for the question. In terms of the overall Hydro Strategy, as the Minister has indicated there’s a proposed budget of $1.5 million directed to the Hydro Strategy, which is targeting studies across the Northwest Territories identifying high potential for hydro conversion from our current diesel system, issue areas like the Gwich’in hydro potential work that is proposed for 2010-11, investigating some options, again, in the Inuvialuit region for renewable energy transfer, as the Minister has indicated, work with Tlicho Hydro on some development options in that region and looking at some of the other water survey gauging information that we continue to need in both the Akaitcho, Sahtu, Gwich’in and Deh Cho regions. So those are some of the primary initiatives that are targeted under the $1.5 million proposed for 2010-11 under the Hydro Strategy. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Vician. Anything further, Mr. Bromley?
