Debates of February 17, 2010 (day 30)

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I don’t know for sure whether anybody from ITI was there or not, but we followed up and we would certainly want to work closely with the community to continue to develop the harvest opportunities.

One of the aspects of this, of course, is it’s an opportunity that appears where there are fires. So there can be different communities involved from time to time and my understanding is that the harvest opportunities is really commercial only the first year after a fire. So I’m wondering what the department is doing to grapple with that. There are some residents who are experts in this area. I wonder if they’ve been approached or are planning to be approached for assisting in planning on how to manage this opportunity/ Thank you.

As I mentioned earlier today, I think when we first became aware of the growth of morel mushrooms, I think it was 10 or 12 years ago. At that time the department put on a couple courses. I think most of the fires were in the Sahtu region at the time and they put on a few courses to introduce some of the local people to opportunities associated with harvesting of morel mushrooms. I think we even, if I recall correctly, helped with showing them some of the techniques.

I think more recently we’ve more or less left it to whoever had the initiative to do it. I know that it’s a little bit different harvesting here in the Northwest Territories than in the South because you’re further away from the market and I think you have to dry the mushrooms before you can bring them to market. This is an area I think we’re prepared to work with ENR to find out the details of exactly when do they normally appear and what kind of process we would need to put some control on the harvesting so that we maximize the benefits to the harvesters in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate the Minister’s comments there and their intent to get going on this. It is not something we have a big history on and I know there’s some learning to do and I’m sure there are other jurisdictions... I’m sure Alberta and British Columbia for sure have a lot of experience in this area. My understanding is that they end up drying most of the mushrooms everywhere. They’re just much easier to ship that way and last a longer time. So just a comment, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the opportunity to find out what might be happening on that horizon. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Next on the list I’ve got Mr. Krutko.

David Krutko

Mackenzie Delta

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I, too, have similar issues, but not dealing with mushrooms, I’m talking more of natural products that people use for thousands of years where they make dry meat and dry fish. They basically pick berries in the fall time, they freeze it, keep it for the winter, it gets them through the whole season. Yet those traditional activities still go on in all our communities and there is a commercial market, but most if it is mostly through trade and barter and so if you want dry fish you go and see so and so, if you want dry meat you go see so and so. Through our local economies people sell this stuff internally, but there is a commercial potential for this type of small business. You go to, you know, it’s surprising, you got to airports in Scandinavia and you can see reindeer hides being sold at their airport. You see cans of cloudberries sold at their airports, blueberries, any type of product we over here take for granted, but there is a commercial opportunity there for a lot of our small communities by way of marketing this stuff. I know that a lot of times we talk about the commercial harvesting. I mean, especially in the commercial fishing industry, the Mackenzie Delta has probably the best potential for whitefish in regard to that market, but the economics is not there. Again, if you do it right, people who go fishing on the Mackenzie at the Arctic Red, these guys bring 3,000 to 6,000 fish out every fall just from fishing for two weeks and it’s just done to provide fish for themselves and for their dogs or they share it with other trappers and people like that. Again, for us it’s just natural, but I think that realizing that the potential that this segment of our traditional economy had has never been really developed to a marketed product that can actually make money.

I’d just like to know why is it that we seem to be putting a lot of focus on the big stuff -- no offense to the fish market on Great Slave Lake -- but again, I think if we start looking at these potential markets on a smaller scale, regional, maybe move it outwards to the Yukon who are next door to us. There’s people who actually come from the Yukon now in the fall time to Tsiigehtchic purchasing fish off the people locally and taking it back to the Yukon because they realize that the market is there, but again, it’s done just on a Ma and Pa operation type of a business. I think that we have to start thinking how do we market those different aspects from the small entrepreneur and give them the market that they can actually go to. You know, northern stores or people selling these products in the Northern Store, the Co-op or in the Inuvik grocery outlets or down in Whitehorse or wherever, but start getting into those different markets and I think that this government, for some reason or another, does not seem to assist in those areas and I think that’s an area we can develop through business grants or whatever and help people expand their business so that they can have the equipment that they need.

I’ll finish off with an elderly lady in Tsiigehtchic. This lady, she goes out to her fish camp every summer. She takes the whole summer, she’s out there for two and a half/three months. She fills up four deep freezes she has outside of her house. Those four deep freezes gets her through the whole winter and all she does is sell fish out of her four deep freezes, and out of that money is how she sustains herself through the whole winter. Everybody knows where to go get dry fish because she has the best dry fish practically in the Delta. She has been able to be independent, self-reliant, sustain herself by four freezers that she fills up every summer and going out to her fish camp. Those are the types of entrepreneurs that I am talking about. Those are the people that we should be working with regarding our business grants, with regard to small business promotion and promote that sector, promote that person. That’s something we don’t seem to do a good job of and that’s something we have to start working on when you talk about traditional economies. Really make it made-in-the-North business ventures that we would be proud of and proud of those people that do it for a living. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko, Minister McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I really believe you are talking to the converted. We call it local food production. We’ve heard this from committee, standing committee, a number of times. We need to do more to develop and expand local food production, so I think you’d be pleased to know we are trying to do more in the area of agriculture. We are going to focus on design, development of small vegetable garden plots, working with community organizations, also fisheries. We want to promote northern fish here in the Northwest Territories. So we’ve identified $250,000 to promote the territorial farming industry. Also, $450,000 to promote and support commercial harvesting, processing and marketing of fish and meat in the Northwest Territories. So hopefully we will be able to capture the kinds of small, local production that you mentioned.

On top of that, our SEED program has been designed to focus on the smaller communities. We have micro loans and micro credit so that small entrepreneurs can access funding to develop these products. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Committee, we’re on page 12-29, activity summary, Industry, Tourism and Investment, economic diversification and business support, operations expenditure summary, $20.599 million. Mr. Ramsay.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know it’s getting late and it’s a big question to throw at the Minister at this late hour, but I’d like to ask the Minister a question. The department is responsible for the Business Development Investment Corporation. I’d like to ask the Minister what are the department’s plans for the BDIC in the immediate and long-range future. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Minister McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The BDIC is a separate board and other than a funding contribution to BDIC, that’s the extent of ITI involvement. BDIC tables their corporate plan with the Assembly on an annual basis and I give some general direction to the BDIC and appoint the board members.

I know in the department’s business plan they talked of moving to a one-window approach to business services in the Territory, but they were short on elaborating on how that was going to happen and how all these moving pieces are going to be put together to ensure that it works. If the Minister could just elaborate a little bit on how programs are going to be delivered regionally through this one-window approach, I would be interested to know what the department has in store for regional service delivery for business programs.

As the Member knows, we have a variety of delivery agents. We have community transfer EDO positions, we have ITI economic development officer positions, and we have a protocol agreement between BDIC and ITI as to how we can function and deliver programs. We also have Community Futures boards in every region that deliver programs and services. We work closely with BDIC, who allocates lending limits or allocates lending privileges to the different regions with regard to the loans that are delivered by BDIC. With all these different arrangements we’re able to deliver all the programs of the department. We also work with other business agencies such as Aboriginal Business Canada and the Business Development Corporation and so on, depending on the kinds and types of deals that we put together.

I know, like I said, it’s late and this could get into quite a debate on this, but there are so many moving parts and I know the Minister just talked about a whole myriad of delivery mechanisms that the department has at its disposal. In your business plan you talked of a one-window approach and I’m just wondering how you’re going to take all these moving parts, put them together to allow for a seamless one-window approach to a suite of business services in the Territory. That’s something that many reports in the past have called on the government to action. We just haven’t got there. I was encouraged to see in the business plan that the department was looking at a one-window approach. I think we should be moving towards that. With all the areas that you talked about, we’re still nowhere close to getting there. I’d like to maybe hear just if you could talk about how you’re going to bring all of this together and how it’s going to work and maybe a timeline on what we can expect.

To me it’s a function of making sure that the protocol agreements that are in place work properly. It’s also a function of education and it’s a function of developing a working arrangement that is client centred and client focused. We’re here to provide the best service we can to our clientele and I think with the community transfer delivery agents, for example, we had to provide additional funding so that the different communities that had these positions were properly funded. We made sure they’re involved and trained and well aware of all of the programs that are available through our tool kit. I think that’s the best approach to take.

Real quick. I think we can pick up on the discussion tomorrow, but I just wanted to mention, and I know the Minister is aware of this, we’ve got partnerships with communities where we have EDOs out there in the regions. In a year they might not move a file. I talked earlier in this session about the SEED program. I agree that we’re getting the money out the door, but is it getting into business people’s hands so they can make a real difference? I talked about only one-third of it really ending up in real businesses’ hands. I also talked about contributions from ITI and not any of that money ending up in real businesses’ hands. I think those are just some things that we can really see if we’re going to improve on that next year. My belief is that we should be looking at those areas and trying to improve on those. By this time next year we should be trying to get some of that money into business people’s hands so they can make a difference and do some beneficial things for the economy here. Again, there are so many questions I could ask here, but I know it’s getting late and we’ll be back here tomorrow.

We did consult with committee and the direction we had was to focus on the small communities and there was no indication at that time that we should be giving all of our money to established businesses. In our view, we are providing funds to the people that we were asked to focus on, which was in the smaller communities, the smaller businesses. In 2008-2009 the SEED program expenditures totalled $1.8 million and the funds grew to $2.9 million which was distributed to 437 approved applicants. Of this, 48 percent went directly to entrepreneurs including business corporation proprietors and other forms of business and $1 million, or 34 percent, went to programs that support community economic development in strategic sector investments. I’d like to point out that this funding has proven popular for promoting community investment and trade, and $520,000, or 18 percent, was approved for community-based economic development which was comprised of traditional economy expenditures in the micro-business category as well as community event spending. This year, for example, or to date, the demand for SEED program assistance has been significant. We’ve approved 431 applicants for $3 million and 42 percent has gone to entrepreneurs. I don’t know how much higher the Member would like us to go in that area.

Really quick. I think the money should be going to the regions, to the smaller communities who need the money. But there are businesses there and I think if we directed the money at the businesses instead of other areas where... Some things, yes, you can see the benefit, but other things maybe not so much. I think we need to look at job creation and trying to get this money to do the most work that it can in the small communities. I think the number of 48 percent we can improve on that greatly if we focused our efforts on trying to get that money into businesses’ hands. I’m not for a second saying that this money should stay in the larger centres. It should get out into the communities and it should go into business people’s hands in the communities so they can create jobs and add to the economy. That’s all I have to say. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Comment there. Didn’t hear a question there. Mr. McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you very much. Let’s see, committee. I had next on my list Mr. Beaulieu.

Tom Beaulieu

Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh

Mr. Chairman, I move that we report progress.

---Carried

Report of Committee of the Whole

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Can I have the report of Committee of the Whole, please, Mr. Bromley?