Mr. Chairman, the challenges, of course, in both areas that he’s raised, first of all on the Oscar Creek Bridge, is we need to be comfortable that we have the alignment finalized and we need to be able to do that through the project description report work that’s going to be done. The Member is correct that it will take a while to get that done. With the Bear River Bridge, we certainly agree with the Member’s opinion on how things have developed. We feel it was a project that should have been considered as project ready. We have the design. We have the location. We’ve done all the legwork that needs to be done. Now we are in need of construction dollars and we’ll continue to move that forward. We’ve raised it on a number of occasions with the federal Ministers. We have yet to have any success in securing dollars for that project.
Mr. Chair, I want to talk to the Minister about an issue here in regard to roads and the gravel access concept here. It’s been quite a good discussion amongst the Members here. I know that this is not the mandate of this department here. It’s really a MACA department mandate; however, Transportation has somewhat been involved in it due to the complexity of the Mackenzie Valley Highway road. It makes sense. Now you open the doors to this issue here. Would the Minister possibly consider with his Cabinet in terms of saying that we could look at a mandate for this department? That probably opens other complexities; however, I think that’s something that we should consider. I’m not too sure if it will get any take, however, if there’s money in the budget… So I want to ask the Minister in terms of this issue here, because it seems that we have some comments from the Minister in terms of partnerships on gravel source and access road. There are two that Mr. Krutko talked about, the Aklavik gravel source and the Tuktoyaktuk gravel source. So now he’s opened doors to other sources to gravel from the communities and sometimes it goes on a case-by-case basis, and I know some of the communities in my region would like to have access to gravel sources. They talked about it so… I just wanted to ask the Minister in terms of going forward in terms of a possible discussion on a possible mandate that they may consider.
Mr. Chairman, I think we’ve moved in the area of being able to help the communities a little more in this budget. We have had, historically, a program that provided money for access roads that would help clear trails or allow people to build ATV roads to historic sites or tourist attraction areas. This year, through the recommendation from the Rural and Remote Communities Committee, we have expanded and increased our budget to a million dollars and changed the criteria to allow for communities to apply for dollars to work on marine or other projects that they see fit. That includes roads to gravel sources.
Of course, for most of the communities that do not have a gravel source… I think there are four in the Northwest Territories right now that are really struggling for gravel and access to gravel; that’s Tulita, Trout Lake, Tuk and Aklavik. We certainly can have the discussion with my Cabinet colleagues if that’s something we want to move into. It still remains a municipal area that falls under MACA, so we would have to talk with them and the Members of Cabinet, if that’s something we want to do.
Mr. Chair, I’m very encouraged by the Minister’s comments in terms of the possibility of this being a discussion at a Cabinet level and coming back to the community for a look at this issue here. I certainly appreciate the Minister’s support, I guess, from all around to increases. This is very important for our communities, to increase the funding for this type of project. So I want to say to the Minister that he’s done a good job in this area here. He has certainly listened to the people in this area here.
Mr. Chair, I want to speak to the Minister about the Mackenzie Valley Highway and the PDR report. There is a lot of discussion; people like Ms. Cece McCauley saying just finish all the talking, the reports, and just get the highway built. I mean, you know, it’s a very simple statement; however, we seem to put a lot of things in place and just to go out there and start doing the pick and shovel and start putting the road together. So now the people in Norman Wells and Tulita are looking at the possibility of something sort of like a training plan like Hire North or Aurora College or something that would get the road built. For example, they talked about is there something that they could look at between Tulita and Norman Wells in terms of starting some section about putting our steel to work. There’s equipment that needs to be used. I know there’s lot of discussion on how do we start the Mackenzie Valley Highway. I certainly know that the Gwich’in have actively pursued this area and they are working vigorously to see what they can do to maybe even bring the highway down from the north into the Sahtu. I just wanted to ask the Minister in terms of this type of discussion starting the project. We know for sure that Tuktoyaktuk is unofficially starting the work on their road. They don’t quite say it, but we know that there’s work being done in Tuk that is the beginning of the Mackenzie Valley Highway. So I want to ask the Minister if he can give me any comments to those. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. I’ll just remind Members, you just went over your allotted time, Mr. Yakeleya, but we will allow the Minister to comment on that. Mahsi.
Mr. Chairman, the Member is quite anxious, as are a lot of people in the Sahtu and other areas in the NWT, to see a road constructed. However, we’re not quite at that stage yet. In the event that we come to that juncture, we would require a federal investment to do the actual construction. That’s still their responsibility.
We’ve been really working hard to try to get information compiled. We’ve just completed an economic analysis of the benefits that would come from such a road. We are now embarking on doing the project description report. The communities of Inuvik and Tuktoyaktuk have completed their sections and they’re moving forward. We’d like to do the section from the Dempster all the way to Wrigley. We have had some very good discussions with the Gwich’in and we will probably be making some agreement in the next little while as to the next steps. We all have to work towards having a plan put together for the Sahtu. There are some communities that we still have to have some discussion with and then, of course, there are others that want to move forward. We need to make sure that those discussions happen. We have yet to have discussions with the Deh Cho or the community of Wrigley.
We feel that this is an important step. It’s a big first step that needs to be done. The environmental scoping and the design work of a road and the route that needs to be decided on is all part of the project description report and we’d like to get that done and get all the different parts of the Mackenzie Valley Highway PDR worked on and moved forward in the next, we’re hoping, two years. It may be longer. It may be shorter but… Given the work that has been accomplished by the Tuk/Inuvik committee, they’ve moved fairly fast, so we’re hoping that is going to happen across the route.
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Yakeleya, if you would like to get back on the list, I can put you back on the list. Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Thank you, Mr. Minister. Next the chair is going to recognize Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just want to ask a few specific questions with regard to the chipsealing from Providence junction towards Fort Simpson. I think as a reference I was using Axe Handle as a quitting point, but I just want to know more specifically, Mr. Chairman, about how many kilometres of chipseal we will be doing first thing this spring. I would like to know how many kilometres we are looking at doing this spring.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Mr. Minister.
Mr. Chairman, this work was planned for last year. Of course, we had weather and other issues that didn’t allow us to move forward. We would like to have that done this summer. The kilometres we are looking at are roughly 70 kilometres. It is in the area that has already been reconstructed. We want to put a cap on it to protect it.
Mr. Chairman, just in terms of longer term plans, what work has yet to be done to do another 70 kilometres maybe not this year but next fiscal year, next summer? I know that we are able to do this section, because we did manage to replace all the culverts in that section. I know that part of the maintenance program is to continue replacing culverts. Working towards 2011 summer budget, Mr. Chairman, how much work do we have in order to do another 70 kilometres of chipsealing? Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, I think the route from the junction to Simpson is about 280 kilometres. There has already been 40 chipsealed from Checkpoint and this will add another 70. As we move forward with reconstruction and providing a basin, replacing and improving the drainage systems, we will continue to chipseal as we move forward on that portion of Highway No. 1.
Mr. Chairman, that is exactly what I was getting at. I certainly support the department in continuing the eventuality, of course, of chipsealing Highway No. 1 up to Fort Simpson. I think that will be a huge achievement for the government to achieve that and, indeed, I have spoken before about achieving as much of a chipseal cover to all our highways as part of our goal, a strategy as one of our goals as the 16th Assembly, Mr. Chairman. I certainly look forward to that plan and to have further discussions about any further chipsealing work that can be done for 2011.
Just in terms of Highway , the reconstruction from the B.C. border to Fort Liard, I know that very little work was done last year so just in terms of completing the reconstruction of Highway No. 7 from the B.C. border towards Fort Liard, Mr. Chairman, I would like to know how many kilometres have to be reconstructed as well as how much will be done in this fiscal year. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, we certainly can provide all the different detail the Member is asking on Highway No. 7. It is quite significant. I can assure the Member that we have $9 million worth of work that has to be done. Some of it is as a result from a carry-over from last year and some of it was budgeted for this year. We have a long-term plan. There are quite a different number of components that are going to be targeted for construction. We could put that in written form and provide it to the Member.
Mr. Chairman, I certainly look forward to that commitment of providing a long-term plan and, if the Minister doesn’t mind, he can also add chipsealing in the long-term plan from the B.C. border to Fort Liard. That is something that I am looking forward to. They were actually quite excited last year when the B.C. government chipsealed all the way up to the border. The first thing they did was come to see me as their MLA and saying, when are we doing ours? When are we getting our chipseal? Having reconstruction done has been slowing things down. I had hoped to see something in the 2011 plan, but I look forward to the Minister’s plan in detail, Mr. Chairman. I can share that with the community, I am sure.
As well, I am looking to the community of Jean Marie River. They do have access to the access road funding. They like to do as much work as they can. It is an economic development for the community. In essence, Mr. Chairman, they are looking to eventually move from a seasonal road to an all-season road. I don’t know what the department’s strategy is with that, but I certainly urge the department to consider that seriously. I think one of the ways that Jean Marie was looking at doing that was to increase the amount of funding that they can build those drainage areas, increase the number of culverts on the highway. In inclement weather during the summertime when there is rain, it almost becomes virtually impassable. I would like to work towards an all-season road. Just, once again, maybe if the Minister can detail for me what their strategy is for the Jean Marie access road. When can they call it a Jean Marie highway there, Mr. Chairman? Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, the Member can call it the Jean Marie highway if he prefers. It is an all-season road. I thought I’d clarify that for the Member’s information. It is considered an all-season road. It has a capital budget. It also has an O and M budget. Of course, it needs work. There is a fairly low traffic volume on this road, but we will certainly commit to working with the community in working towards improving the areas of concern. The community does have the contract for maintenance on it.
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Is there anything further, Mr. Menicoche?
No, thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The chair will now recognize Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Along the same line on highways, I guess more than talking with specific capital infrastructure money when they get a position of the government on the chipsealing of all the highways, I see that the department maintains about 2,200 kilometres of all-season highway, all-weather road. I can’t quite figure out where that is, but I generally have a feeling. I know where about 1,500 of those kilometres are, I guess. I might suggest that if you chipseal all the way to Wrigley, we are looking at about probably 850 kilometres of highway that is not chipsealed under that. I am just calculating in my head here. I am wondering if the department has a strategy for chipsealing all the highways. If they do, over what time period is this planned? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Minister.
Mr. Chairman, I am not sure why the Member would be questioning if we had 2,200 kilometres of road. It certainly can’t go missing. I would like to confirm that is the number that we have in the NWT and roughly 800 of those kilometres are chipsealed. It is our goal and our intention to provide a chipseal or some kind of stable topping on our roads. We recognize that it allows for a better preservation of our highways, so that is the intention.
As for how long it takes, it is a long-term goal and as we move forward, as we progress with the reconstruction, we intend to follow with either a chipseal or EK-35 or Easy Street or whatever the best application for that area would be. Of course, in the northern part of the Territories there is still a lot of testing that we want to have done before we start doing that. It is a very costly undertaking, but that is the intention as we move forward in upgrading all our roads. I should also point out that most of our roads are at a point in their life cycle that they need to be replaced or upgraded and that is part of what we are doing also. Thank you.
I wasn’t actually disputing any number, I was trying to figure out how much of the highway was left to chipseal. I take it, then, that there is about 1,400 kilometres that isn’t chipsealed. I guess I could see that being a long-term strategy, but how long of a strategy is this to pave the remaining or to chipseal the remaining 1,400 kilometres that is not chipsealed?
Mr. Chairman, the government’s ability to pay for reconstruction and also the chipsealing or resurfacing would make that dependant on how fast we go. Right now, we have a long-term plan to reconstruct a lot of our highways and as part of that we want to start doing the chipseal. So I can’t give him a firm date at this time.
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Anything further, Mr. Beaulieu?
No, thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. We will now go to Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It seems like we are having a chipseal theme day and I am going to fall right in line with that because I think it is a crucial item, especially dealing with gravel highways, dust control and all the aspects associated with maintenance of gravel highways and how we can cut down on the operations and maintenance appliance of calcium and other chemicals to our highways.
I think that we have to seriously find ways of dealing with these issues. I know that there is, as the Member stated, 1,400 kilometres of highways that are gravel topped and I think that we do have to find alternatives to that. I think that it is important that we do pilot projects on different sections of the highways. I know that I have requested that for a number of years from previous Ministers, going back to the 14th and also in the 13th Assemblies with previous Transport Ministers, looking at pilot projects on the Dempster Highway, either between the community and the airport or the community and the water source, or even the community to eight kilometres from town. I think that we have to start somewhere and sometime.
I know that there is a lot of chipseal going on and resurfacing in Inuvik and possibly work on the airport in Inuvik. There are airport extensions and I think that we have to find a way of working these into existing projects, or even future projects, but having the ability to do it. I know I have touched on the item of Easy Street in regards to that. I had an opportunity to meet with a company here in Yellowknife who basically is the distributor of that product in the Northwest Territories and I was pretty impressed with the type of application, because it is a cold appliance. You don’t have to heat it up, you don’t have to store it, you can leave it outside.
I think most community equipment in our communities are loaders, graders and dump trucks, so we don’t need that big type of equipment to do this. I think it is perfectly designed for the North and I think that we should seriously consider looking at these types of applications or appliance.
In regards to the different things we have tried, we have tried chipseal, we have tried pavement and I think it is time that we try, and I know it is not going to work everywhere, but I think we should at least make the effort.
I would like to ask the Minister, I know I have requested pilot projects before, I would just like to know how much of a commitment can I get from this Minister that we seriously consider it. I know that the community of Fort McPherson is considering expanding their road resurfacing. They are talking to different firms, considering putting some of their gas tax money to expanding the chipseal in that community. I think that from a community perspective, the quality of life that changes simply by chipsealing one road down the centre of a community and you are not walking in mud, you are not dealing with dust when people walk down the street. People feel comfortable that they are walking down the street. More importantly, peoples’ houses that are adjacent to a dusty road or dusty highway, especially for the women that have to clean everyday and whatnot, for them it is frustrating.
I think that having dust, trying to keep your house clean when you are having to deal with the dust issue, I think it is more of a quality of life issue than just dust alone and I think that this is a perfect opportunity for us to improve the quality of life in our communities by way of doing something to deal with the problems of mud and dust in communities. I would just like to ask the Minister how serious we are about implementing some of these initiatives, moving them forward. Call them pilot projects, we have to find money. We’ll help you find it somewhere.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Minister.
Mr. Chairman, the Member is correct; there is a whole lot of chipsealing going on and we would like to extend that into the Member’s riding in the Mackenzie Delta. We are well committed to doing the financial analysis. The Member has raised it before. We will look at the cost factor and look at the analysis of what it would take in terms of investment for chipsealing or Easy Street in the area of Fort McPherson. We are going to do that this summer, if that makes sense, and if we can demonstrate that there is some viability, then we will move to the next stage of trying to test an area in the Member’s riding. We are committed and we feel that chipsealing or providing a cover of protection on our highways is a good investment. We just have to provide the business case for it. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to move a motion.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Go ahead.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that the committee strongly recommends that the Department of Transportation consider utilizing its Build Canada Plan Research and Development Funds to conduct highway geotechnical assessments on gravel roads adjacent to rural and remote communities to support and build upon work previously conducted under the GNWT’s main street chipsealing program. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The motion is in order. It is being distributed now. We will just wait one minute for the motion to get distributed. Okay, it looks like it has been distributed. To the motion.
Question.
The motion is carried.
---Carried
Thanks, committee. We are on page 11-21, highways, operations expenditure summary, $54.2 million.
Agreed.
Mr. Yakeleya.
Mr. Chairman, it has been a while since I heard everything in sync over here. I have a couple of questions for the Minister. First one is the P3 project policy. I understand that within the Cabinet, probably discussed it that something that we would see in terms of bridges or infrastructure in regards to transportation in terms of we have a look at the P3 policy in terms of going forward.
There are some discussions by my members in the Sahtu to talk about whether the government is interested in a P3 project. They make reference to the Deh Cho Bridge and that project and if there’s something we can do or at least have serious consideration for projects we want to see built in the region.
Minister of Transportation.
Mr. Chairman, I believe the information is gone to committee and the Finance department is waiting for a response. That’s my understanding. The responsibility for the P3 policy doesn’t fall under me, so I’m just relaying the message.
Fair enough. I’ll have to check my correspondence and get back to the Minister for information. Even though the P3 policy isn’t under the Minister’s responsibilities, it is closely related to projects we want to look at. I guess I’ll have some discussions with him on how far we can go on this issue here to look at major projects we want to build in the North and in my region.
I want to ask the Minister about the memorandum of understanding with this government. I know it’s administered by ITI but there are maintenance and highways contracts, winter roadwork, airports with this department. I haven’t yet seen a percentage of contracts that are with aboriginal local business companies. I know the Gwich’in have an impressive number -- and I could be wrong -- of work that is done with this department to support local companies in their region. Is that something this department is following on their type of work that they’ve already done with the Gwich’in people that the Sahtu could follow to support the aboriginal people?
The Member has raised a question about the MOU. That is something this department follows. It was an agreement signed by our government and the people of the Sahtu. We have targets and track the amount of investment that goes to the aboriginal governments. Or I should say the Sahtu-based businesses. Right now in the Sahtu for the last year we expended 70 percent to those companies.
Certainly that’s a good number to live up to. I hope this continues or even higher with going up to 100 percent. However, that’s something that we’ll work towards. I like the numbers here.
I wanted to talk about the issue of main street chipsealing. I know the Minister has talked about pilot projects and if it’s successful, of course, he talked about the money. I, too, would like just to comment on this issue here. It is with another department. I don’t think this department has any mandate to do this project, however, I look forward to seeing if this is successful in other regions. Would the Sahtu region be considered for a chipsealing project? It was done in Fort Good Hope. I know there are lots of potholes in that chipsealing program. It is with MACA, so I guess it gets kind of difficult sometimes to see where we get funding to do the chipsealing program and just do the maintenance of it. I want to ask the Minister about his department also looking at the Sahtu.
The Minister of MACA is listening with great interest as we talk about main street chipsealing. It falls under the mandate of that department. We don’t have any responsibilities in that area. We do have, as I stated yesterday, expertise. We have people who can advise communities and help them with the packaging up of a tender and things of that nature, if that’s required. We would certainly be happy to do that. But we do not have in this budget any money for main street chipsealing. That would be completely under a different department.
I do want to say that I know that the department does have expertise and the department I need to bring this up with is MACA. However, the Minister has offered to, if the community does want to look at chipsealing, that there’s expertise there that could assist with looking at what they can do. I want to just leave it at that rather than pushing this issue any further with this department here.
I want to ask the Minister about the contributions this department is making in terms of staff time for megaprojects such as the Deh Cho Bridge. I know they have some staff that is assigned to the project. Is this something that is within the department that there is staff assigned or dedicated to other projects in the Mackenzie Valley for infrastructure being built for Transportation?
This question was asked yesterday, too, and I responded by indicating that we had one full-time position that was there and another half-time position that was dedicated to this project. We have a number of other people that have responsibilities, although not full time. Our deputy minister also spends time on it. Our legal people. Things of that nature. There are a couple of positions that are committed, but there are others that only have certain responsibilities in that area. There is a fairly small group of people that work on this project.
The increase to the Community Access Program is a very popular program in my region. I know I had a discussion with a resident in Tulita who took advantage of this program. He was very grateful for this program. I think he was very happy that he’s going to continue doing the work. I think he’s going to be very happy to see the increase in funding to this program, to look at the benefits of the Community Access Program. It also includes the marine services. It’s interesting to see what type of criteria is going to come forward in the application to see where the marine will be into this program. I look forward to the rollout of this program with the new funding. I want to thank the Minister and staff for working with my constituent on this program. We’ve seen benefits. Even though there was very little when dealing with millions of dollars, 40,000 or 25,000 is quite a good number.
I know we have other things. I want to ask the Minister about the Slave Geological Province study. They still have to build a business case in light of what we’re hearing on the wildlife. Is this something that they’re going to take into consideration, is the impact on wildlife if they go ahead with a business case to look at a P3 project that will go right into prime animal country? That’s something that we should maybe have a red flag when looking at it. Otherwise you’re going to have to come to another issue on this.
