Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are directed to the Premier in regard to the long-outdated Wildlife Act provisions that have been waiting in some cases some 17 years. By way of minor amendments to the Wildlife Act it was 1994. Those small amendments were more in line with the Inuvialuit Agreement. The Inuvialuit Agreement has been in place for some 27 years, yet a lot of the elements of those agreements have not been enacted and I think it’s more important that... People have been waiting a long time to see the Wildlife Act revisions take place and take hold and come before this House and go out to the public domain so we can have consultations on the revisions for the Wildlife Act. There’s a lot of work and a lot of effort has been put into this. So I’d like to ask the Minister when can we see the revisions to the Wildlife Act come before this House so we can put it out into the public domain and start the public consultation process to get that legislation through during the life of this government.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister responsible for Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If all goes according to plan, the intention is to give notice for first reading on the 7th of March.
We are running out of time here. I believe we only have a little less than seven months in the life of this government and I think we have to do everything we can to get it into the system. So again, I’d just like to ask the Minister in regard to the legislation. Like I stated, since the Inuvialuit claim it’s been over 27 years, the Gwich’in claim has been about 20, the Sahtu is just under 20 years. It’s been a long time coming for a lot of the Aboriginal groups that have land claim agreements, to implement those provisions of those agreements, to enact them, bring them into legislation and bring them into force and effect. I think a lot of people out there are saying, well, no consultation is taking place. This thing has been around for 30 years. So I’d like to get the Minister to maybe get it in here. I don’t know if he can get it in here any faster than the 7th, but where there’s a will, there’s a way. So I’d like to ask the Minister to get this legislation into this House so we can get it on the road and allow for public consultations. Thank you.
Thank you. The government shares the Member’s interest and concern in moving with this act. It’s been identified by this Legislature and the government as a priority piece of legislation. We are taking it down to the wire. So the intention, as I indicated, is to bring it forward into this House to give notice in the last week, from the 7th to the 10th, give it first and second reading, hopefully, and get approved, and then it will become the property of the committee to be able to do their consultation and either in May or August bring it back for third reading. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Human Resources.
1.
How many of the government’s, including boards and agencies, indigenous Aboriginal employees received training within the last two years?
2.
How many of the government’s, including boards and agencies, P2 and P3 employees received training within the last two years?
3.
How many indigenous Aboriginal employees were promoted to or successfully competed for senior positions, in 2009-2010?
4.
How many P2 and P3 employees were promoted to or successfully competed for senior positions in 2009-2010?
Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document entitled Diavik’s Community Legacy Projects: Highlighting Our First Decade of Investing in the North. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to table the poster for V-Day North events. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Pursuant to Section 5 of the Legislative Assembly and Executive Council Act, I wish to table the summary of Members’ absences for the period February 27, 2010, to February 1, 2011.
Mr. Speaker, I give notice that Monday, February 21, 2011, I will move the following motion: I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Nunakput, that this Legislative Assembly strongly recommends the Department of Health and Social Services reverse its decision and continue to provide long-term care service as it currently exists for elders at Joe Greenland Centre. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Item 16, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions. Item 18, first reading of bills. Item 19, second reading of bills. Item 20, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 4-16(5), Executive Summary of the Report of the Joint Review Panel for the Mackenzie Gas Project; Tabled Document 30-16(5), 2010 Review of Members’ Compensation and Benefits; Tabled Document 38-16(5), Supplementary Health Benefits – What We Heard; Tabled Document 62-16(5), Northwest Territories Water Stewardship Strategy; Tabled Document 75-16(5), Response to the Joint Review Panel for the Mackenzie Gas Project on the Federal and Territorial Governments’ Interim Response to “Foundation for a Sustainable Northern Future”; Tabled Document 103-16(5), GNWT Contracts Over $5,000 Report, Year Ending March 31, 2010; Tabled Document 133-16(5), NWT Main Estimates 2011-2012; Tabled Document 135-16(5), Response to the Standing Committee on Social Programs Report on the Review of the Child and Family Services Act; Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Social Assistance Act; Bill 14, An Act to Amend the Conflict of Interest Act; Bill 17, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act; Bill 20, An Act to Amend the Evidence Act; Minister’s Statement 65-16(5), Devolution Agreement-in-Principle, Impact on Land Claims and Protection of Aboriginal Rights; Minister’s Statement 88-16(5), Sessional Statement, with Mr. Abernethy in the chair.
Thank you, committee. I’d like to call Committee of the Whole to order. Before us today are tabled documents 4, 30, 38, 62, 75, 103, 133, 135; Bills 4, 14, 17 and 20; and Ministers’ statements 65 and 88. What is the wish of committee? Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Committee wishes to continue the review of Tabled Document 133-16(5), NWT Main Estimates, 2011-12, and today we’re going to start with the Housing Corporation, and if we get through the Housing Corporation we may be ready for opening remarks for Municipal and Community Affairs.
Is committee agreed?
Agreed.
Agreed. With that, we’ll take a short break and come back to Tabled Document 133-16(5) with NWT Housing Corp.
---SHORT RECESS
I’d like to call Committee of the Whole back to order. Prior to going on break we agreed to go forward on the main estimates with the NWT Housing Corporation. To the Minister for some opening comments.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am pleased to present the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation’s main estimates for the fiscal year 2011-2012, which requests a total GNWT contribution of $61.175 million. This is an increase of 64.7 percent from last year, due to the transfer of the Public Housing Rental Subsidy from the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. Including other revenue sources primarily from the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, the NWT Housing Corporation will have approximately $112 million available to invest in housing in the Northwest Territories in this fiscal year.
Since 2006-2007 the federal government has invested $114 million in new housing and repairs in the Northwest Territories, or an average of $22.9 million per year. The 2011-2012 fiscal year represents the first year without this significant level of federal investments. However, the federal government remains an important funding partner through its support of our Public Housing Program as well as CMHC specific programs. As well, the NWT Housing Corporation and its provincial and territorial counterparts have been involved in recent discussions with CMHC on the future of funding previously provided through the federal Affordable Housing Initiative and Residential Rehabilitation Assistance Program. We will continue to work with our provincial and territorial colleagues to encourage Canada to make long-term funding commitments for new construction, operation and maintenance of units, and to reverse the continuing decline of federal support for the operation of social housing.
Over the past five years we have delivered approximately 600 new housing units and completed repairs on a significant portion of our housing stock. In 2011-2012 we will be returning to our historical level of housing delivery. This is not to say that we will not be making important housing investments in our communities this year. However, given current needs in many communities and the lack of federal funding, our primary focus in 2011-2012 will be on improving existing social housing through public housing replacement and completing major modernization and improvements.
In 2011-2012 we will invest $7.1 million to replace 28 public housing units, and an additional $10.4 million to modernize and improve public housing with 126 units scheduled to undergo major upgrades. These investments are critical to enhance the long-term sustainability and energy efficiency of existing social housing, which will in turn lower operating costs and lessen the impact of declining CMHC funding on our local housing organizations.
Improving our public housing stock also means identifying older units that require disposal or demolition and, where possible, replacing them with more energy-efficient homes. NWT Housing Corporation is removing these units and replacing them with higher quality homes that will not only provide better housing options to residents but will contribute to improving the overall quality of life within our communities.
The NWT Housing Corporation will also provide $9.7 million to assist current and prospective homeowners under Housing Choices and other programs. This funding includes $1.6 million for construction and material purchases for delivery under the Homeownership Entry Level Program, HELP, and $1.5 million to support home purchases under the Providing Assistance for Territorial Homeownership Program, PATH.
On the repair side, we will provide $4.7 million for repair projects under our Contributing Assistance for Repairs and Enhancement Program, CARE, $654,000 in CMHC repair programs and $938,000 in preventative maintenance assistance for seniors and other lower income residents. The remaining $250,000 represents funding available to community groups to develop housing that would be suitable to rent to essential service providers through the GNWT Housing for Staff Initiative. Our home ownership programs are designed to ensure that the housing programs and services that we provide foster independence and respond directly to client needs in a manner consistent with our resources.
We also recognize that there may be gaps in and between our programs. In 2010 we undertook an internal review of our programs focused on those applicants with household incomes that exceeded our program thresholds by 10 percent or less. Following the review, the NWT Housing Corporation tested a mechanism that would address these applicants who do not qualify for assistance under Housing Choices because their incomes marginally exceeded the threshold but who fulfill all other program requirements. We have included additional funding under our PATH program in 2011-2012 to provide home ownership options for those who fall into this category. We believe that through this kind of analysis we will identify individual applicants who can be successful homeowners.
We will realize further opportunities to provide housing to our residents through our vacant unit strategy. Under the first half of 2011-2012, the NWT Housing Corporation will utilize a series of options to ensure that available housing units in communities are serving a housing need for residents. These options include our recent Housing Choices yearly intake, secondary intakes in selected communities where there are available housing units, and other uses as identified through dialogue with communities. This also includes the conversion of some vacant units to public housing as it is recognized that rental housing is the best option for many residents in need. The conversion to public housing will also extend to some communities where public housing does not currently exist, marking the first time since the early 1990s that the NWT Housing Corporation has added to its public housing inventory.
As always, the Housing Corporation’s largest expenditure is related to the delivery of the Public Housing Program in our communities. The approximately 2,400 units in our public housing inventory cost $41 million to operate each year, of which $5 million is recovered through tenant rents and which means that $36 million is funded through a government subsidy. This amount is provided to local housing organizations by the NWT Housing Corporation to subsidize tenant rents and to support the operation and maintenance of our public housing stock. This also includes $669,000 to fund the hiring of apprentices at local housing organizations.
Once again, federal funding for the operation and maintenance of public housing will decline in 2011-2012 and it will continue to do so until lapsing completely in 2038. The annual impact of this decline is beginning to be felt more severely. The GNWT and the Housing Corporation recognize this problem. In order to minimize the risk and sustainability of our existing housing stock in light of the federal government’s lack of commitment to long-term funding, the GNWT has committed $300,000 to allow the Department of Executive and the Housing Corporation to collaborate on a Shelter Policy review. This review will consider a number of challenging issues related to housing in the Northwest Territories, including declining federal funding for social housing and the ongoing housing issues in our communities. Included within this review will be an evaluation of the Housing Choices programs that were introduced in 2007 as well as a review of the current rent scale for the Public Housing Program. The Shelter Policy review will help us to build on our own capacity to address these challenges as well as providing a strategic framework for the next Legislative Assembly to make decisions about future housing approaches by the GNWT.
In this time of fiscal restraint it is important that the NWT Housing Corporation collect outstanding mortgage and rent arrears in order to reinvest them in our communities. The collection of this outstanding revenue is a key strategic consideration for the NWT Housing Corporation. It is critical that outstanding mortgage payments be made in order for homeowners to fully meet their obligations and so that revenue collected through the process can be used to enhance programs and service delivery. Public housing tenants have a role to play in the financial viability of local housing organizations, given the reliance of local housing organizations on the rent revenues for the operation and maintenance of public housing stock. Our officials continue to work with clients in mortgage arrears and tenants with rental arrears to put in place repayment plans that address their arrears so that they can continue in the Housing Corporation’s programs. However, in cases where mortgage clients have consistently resisted, efforts to resolve their mortgage debt files will be sent for legal action.
We rely on the strength of partnerships in providing housing to our residents. Within the GNWT, the Housing Corporation works closely with departments such as Health and Social Services; Municipal and Community Affairs; Education, Culture and Employment; as well as the Department of Executive to promote interdepartmental approaches and collaboration in policy, planning and coordination. Our work with these departments is about more than just housing; it is about using our scarce dollars in the most effective way, given the clear linkage between quality housing and areas like health, education and community development.
The need for strong partnerships extends to the community level as well. Our local housing organizations work closely with us to ensure that our delivery reflects community needs and interests. Tenants are also considered our partners as they make a vital contribution to the viability of public housing through timely payment of rent and by ensuring that their units are well kept. The Housing Corporation’s role in these partnerships is clear: providing quality energy-efficient housing and ensuring that our programs and services are easily accessible and are communicated properly to those who stand to benefit from them.
Through these partnerships, we can move forward together into a future where quality, affordable housing is the norm in our communities and where our housing stock is sustainable for generations to come.
That concludes my opening remarks. At this time I would be pleased to answer any questions the committee may have.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Do you have witnesses that you would like to bring into the House?
Yes, I would.
Is committee agreed that we allow the Minister to bring witnesses into the House?
Agreed.
Sergeant-at-Arms, could you please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. Can I please get you to introduce your witnesses for the record.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’m joined today by, to my right, Mr. Jeff Polakoff, president and CEO of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, and to my left I have Mr. Jeff Anderson, vice-president of finance with the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. As with previous departments, we had allowed all Members to make general comments and have the Minister respond at the end. Is committee agreed that we proceed with this same process?
Agreed.
Okay. We’ll now go with general comments. Is committee agreed?
Agreed.
First on my list is Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. In regard to this department and its portfolio, yes, we have challenges, but I think also we have to work together to find solutions to some of our challenges. I think that in regard to the area of finding revenues in regard to CMHC, again, that’s a national problem. I think it’s a $3 billion problem across Canada, and I think we’re all in the same boat on that one, and I think it’s just going to take a national outcry to get the federal government to admit that they have made a mistake.
Again, I think we do have to be cognizant in the North that we have to find offsetting revenues, and I think one of the areas that we have to look at is that we do have rent subs with the private sector. I think, whenever possible, those dollars should be expended first with the Housing Corporation assets before we allow those rent subs to be spent in the private sector. I think we generate $5 million by way of what we collect by way of rent, but I think we also have to look at how much money the government spends in other agencies in regard to rent subs, regardless if it’s the Department of Health and Social Services or even through income support, that we have to be able to use other government agencies to provide that investment in the Housing Corporation before you go to the private sector.
I think that in most cases what you usually find are people do get evicted from housing and they’ll end up going to one of the agencies, and in most cases it’s income support or social services in which they’ll find them an alternative place to stay. But again, I think that whenever possible we have to work with the clients and work out payment plans and try to find a way that we’re able to recoup those dollars in most cases, that people do have hardships or people do lose their jobs, they do get laid off, and because in most of our small and isolated communities we do have a seasonal economy and right now the economy is down in most regions throughout the Northwest Territories.
But again, I think it’s fundamental to look at a holistic approach to housing and not just look at housing as a place that you rent houses, but look at it as a place that residents, children, parents, grandparents grow up, grow old, and eventually pass on. We have to look at housing in the lifecycle of the people we serve, from single individuals to married couples, to couples with families to the transitional process as we go through life, and we have to be aware that at some point we’re going to have to look at the possibility of investing more money into either social care or secondary or seniors’ care, and we have to be able to work with those different components.
I think that’s one thing that we’ve sort of slipped here in the North. Looking at other jurisdictions in the country, they do have plans in place where they look at the holistic approach of housing from hard to house people to homeless people to seniors facilities to transitional housing. So when you look at the whole gamut of housing right from the time someone gets into the market to actually when you exit out of the market and in most cases you end up going into a long-term care facility and that’s part of that. I think it’s something that we have to look at in the North with the amount of challenges we’re seeing with homelessness. But in most cases those are people problems and people issues and program issues that we have to work on and working with other government agencies and ourselves to work around that. I think it’s important that we look at that but, I think, also, we have to work with families and individuals to make the transition from the public housing dependency to eventually home ownership to eventually being able to maintain their own needs.
That’s an area that I’d like to focus on, because I know that in my riding there have been issues that I’ve raised with the Minister and the department on individuals who have tried to transition into home ownership but because of one reason or another, basically because most of the clients that have got into home ownership work in a seasonal economy but at least they’re making their payments, they’re maintaining their commitment, but yet, in some cases, they were told that they had to vacate the premises because they didn’t have full employment.
In most of our communities you might have 13 percent or even 15 percent of the people that are fully employed in our communities. The other 80-something percent depend on seasonal work. I think we have to be realistic to the economic times of our communities and the realities people face. But people still, at the end of the day, make ends meet. They are able to maintain their facility. They’re making their payments. They’re not in arrears. I think that, if anything, we should credit them for trying whichever way they can to bring in whatever revenues they need from trapping or fishing or subsidizing their wages somehow other than having a full-time job, because we can’t discriminate individuals based on the employment levels that they’re at. I think that’s something we have to be realistic about when we’re talking about communities and community services.
I think the other area that we have to really look at is the whole independency side of elder care and the elders care programs and sustaining them as long as we can in their own homes and working with themselves, their families. Because as they age, their requirements change also from being mobile individuals who were basically self-sufficient, they’re able to cut their own wood, pack their own wood, but as you age it gets a little harder as you progress in life. I think we have to be realistic that those people are going to need some assistance by way of changing their heating systems or looking at some sort of equipment to assist with their disabilities, regardless if it’s ramps on their facility or, basically, having better access to their showers and their washrooms so that, basically, they’re able to sustain that independence as long as possible. Again, I think we have to work with the private sector in regard to groups that do provide different types of housing, regardless if it’s the private sector.
I know one of the issues that has come to light is the whole area of professional housing. I know that the Minister made a statement in the House yesterday in which they’re allocating a bunch of the vacant units for professional housing, but I think we have to be aware that you’re dealing with a segment of our workforce that’s transient. They come and go. You don’t know how long they’re going to be there for. But again, those units at some point will eventually be empty again. I think you have to be realistic of how those units will be required over a period of time and making sure that you identify the occupants so that when you basically have those transitional periods of cycles where, in most cases, the RCMP, for instance, most of them do a two-year turnaround in most of our communities, and then basically they have to go out and rehire or refocus their efforts to get other people in there. Sometimes that takes a little bit of time, so those units, again, will be sitting empty for some period of time and, again, we have to be aware of that.
But again, we also have to ensure that’s there’s fairness in the process. That we don’t provide a subsidy to one group and yet people are basically paying $1,500 or in some cases $1,800 a month in regard to maintaining a home ownership program but yet we’re allowing the professional housing to be subsidized. I think that that’s a concern from residents in our communities, is how come they’re subsidized and I have to pay, you know, 30 percent or 25 percent of my income based on income testing. So is there going to be income testing also provided by way of the rent that’s being charged to the professional staff in our communities? In most cases the teachers and other people, they try to get it as cheap as they can and they don’t want to pay $1,500 a month. If they can get it for $600, they’ll try to get it for $600. I think we have to be fair to all the residents in our communities when it comes to providing these different types of services.
The other area I would like to talk about is the whole area of capacity building, especially in the area of tradespeople in our community. This department has an important role to provide that opening for a lot of young people to get into the trades. I know we are looking at that in the Housing Corporation and local housing authorities are taking on more people. I think we also have to develop that into the actual construction and the maintenance and repairs that are going to take place so that you offer the student, especially summer students, that opportunity. For most of them, that is their first job that they will receive, so they are able to do that.
I think also we have to be aware of community unemployment rates where we have high unemployment rates. We have to allow for some of this work to remain in our communities. I know that this department used to be wide open to negotiated contracts with bands and development corporations in trying to find that opportunity and keeping those resources and job opportunities in our communities. Again, I think we have to be open to that and ensure that the policies and procedures this government has to offer are being used, especially in departments such as Housing Corporation, which is a very important infrastructure department in the government. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Are there any other Members who would like to make general comments? Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think my biggest concern now for the future of social housing is the CMHC declining fund. To me, it doesn’t appear as though the federal government... Basically from their position on their stance seems to be that they are into providing short-term stimulus-type money or short-term affordable housing strategy types of money because they seem to get a better bang for that buck than they would to continue long-term investment in housing. It is long-term investment in housing, I think, is something that has been in place. It was agreed to some time ago that the federal government would be withdrawing from that type of housing, essentially public housing program under a couple of CMHC sections. That is something that is worrisome for me, not because I am afraid that the public housing will be sitting there and we would not be able to operate public housing, but because I am afraid that if we don’t have a good strategy to address the public housing that we have on inventory, that it would take all of our money out of other essential areas, specifically maybe in housing but could possibly be in other areas to backfill what is needed to continue to operate all of the public housing units.
There is a slight growth in public housing announced by the Minister yesterday. Again, it is only about $15,000 per year to operate a unit, maybe $20,000 a year to operate a unit. That is the additional 50 units is not that significant that it would have an impact, but the withdrawal fund is what I find very significant. I think lobbying Canada to ask them to stay in is something that we should continue to do, as all provinces are doing, but I don’t think it is going to be an effective strategy. I think what we need to do is actually develop a strategy to reduce the amount of public housing we have on inventory. If the Housing Corporation, from one end of selling a house that is worth $300,000 to $400,000 on the market in the city of Yellowknife for $300,000 to $400,000, not to disrupt the market, but to get the capital out of it and to reduce the amount of public housing in market communities where public housing really doesn’t add to the market is essential. I recognize that, but there are other ways of providing public housing. I am saying that public housing can be provided on a short-term basis in the market communities by renting or leasing. You could sell 20 houses in market communities at an average of $300,000 per unit and I think that adds up to $6 million or something like that. That could be then, in turn, put back into the home ownership side of things or being put back into leasing public housing in market communities and reduce our inventory so we don’t have long-term commitments by virtue of ownership.
Right now, if we don’t reduce the amount of public housing we have, we are going to be in it for the long term, and as the money from the federal government dries up, we will have to backfill with GNWT dollars. I am a bit afraid of that. That kind of leads me to where...
I am trying to get the Housing Corporation to see if they would consider... I would ask the Minister if they would consider developing a housing plan in each community; maybe a housing plan that considers all of the factors. I use the term today: a 360 evaluation. I would still use that term to have the corporation look at the communities from a community-to-community perspective and have a plan that says our public housing situation in Fort Resolution is this. The home ownership situation for Fort Resolution is this. This is what we have on the market. This is the total value of what we have on the market and the total value of what is on the market in that community and, in essence, move away from having a lot of public housing to maybe creating some sort of a quasi-housing market in these smaller communities that allows individuals in that community to have equity. So you would essentially work towards accumulating some sort of market so that individuals have equity.
We all know that there is a significant difference between putting money into a house in Inuvik and Fort Smith and Yellowknife than there is putting money into places like Lutselk’e, Nahanni Butte and even in Tulita or Fort Resolution, for that matter, because those communities don’t have a market. That is why I think the houses there are essentially lifelong houses. If you have a community where you have a market, then a lot of people will invest in the market then upgrade, sell their unit and upgrade and so on. In a sense, it kinds of creates a little market in itself in the communities. I think the Housing Corporation needs to look at that in part with their programs and make sure that they are trying to move forward and achieve that objective, and that is an area that should cover the effects of what is happening with the CMHC withdrawal.
The other area that I am very interested in is the home ownership units in the communities. Really, I am looking at units now that are older units. The Housing Corporation built several hundred HAP units across the Territory and many of those units are now getting to a stage where they are moving to a state where they could be getting close to being beyond economic repair. I would like to see the corporation... I think it would be positive if we could repair those units and save them from going to a dilapidated state where they cannot be fixed. Then I think we really have a big price tag, government period would have a big price tag.
Those individuals have to live somewhere, they’re going to either go into new houses built by the corporation or go into residential care, which is very expensive, I suppose. Most people know that.
I think the one big factor in the Public Housing Program is that the corporation should develop some sort of a maximum rent. I recognize the fact that the Housing Corporation, under the program, has an obligation to recover at least the economic cost of that unit if that person is working, but that’s not working in the small communities, that type of program. So I’m suggesting that the corporation develop some sort of maximum rent. I really do think that there are long-term benefits to that as well. People may work if their rent maxes out at $700, they may work, even though maybe the cost to operate that unit is more, but it’s better than them only paying $32. So I’m on time, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Are there any more general comments? Mr. Yakeleya.
Mr. Chair, I wanted to say to the Minister here and the staff here that the housing units that we have in our communities, I certainly look forward to the Minister’s suggestions in his opening statements in further detail as to how we’re going to help people in those units, help people get into those units. We were in Deline and a statement was made at a leadership meeting with the Premier. Again, there are 100 units, I think, and there were 50 percent that were vacant. A lot of people were out of those units. That was just a statement in the meeting. I just want to clarify that and close that number. So I want to see how we can get people into those units.
I read with interest the Minister’s statement yesterday on a strategy to fill those units up. There are 82 units that are vacant in the Northwest Territories. On average you can put four to a family, that’s 82 units. That’s about over 300 people that the Minister wants to put into public housing. So I’m very interested to see how we could help the Minister put people into these vacant units. It means doing some creative policy writing and some support. I look forward to working with the Minister on that.
The public housing in our communities, as Mr. Beaulieu had alluded to, is something that needs to be looked at. I made earlier comments in my Member’s statements about a young man that is doing his best to make it in life and he’s working hard. However, because of the current policies right now, he’s paying $1,800 a month for a one-bedroom unit and it’s very stressful for him because he’s working to try to make it. He doesn’t have much furniture in his house; groceries are very high in Tulita. So if we can help these young people a little bit, as you know the unemployment is very high in some of our smaller communities and if we could somehow manage to make it worthwhile for these young fellows to work and stay in a job, I think we’d be doing a lot of them a lot of good.
I also wanted to let the Minister know that I talked to another constituent of mine in the small communities. This constituent is a long-term employee of the Department of Education through the Sahtu educational board. Actually, she’s a cultural teacher. This person has lived in the housing units for a bit. It’s one of those old units that were built in the late ‘70s and because of that, he’s paying the maximum rent of $2,400 and at the same time is looking after her mother who is in her 90s. She’s doing her best to keep up with the rent. However, it’s costing her quite a bit and she’s putting just about half of her rent payment down and Housing is causing her a lot of stress by telling her that she needs to pay up or she’s going to be asked to move out or be evicted. Her mother is in her 90s and she doesn’t know if her mother will be around today or tomorrow or next month. She doesn’t know. That’s a lot of stress on her. She’s one of these long-term employees with education. She’s not going anywhere. She said if it wasn’t for my mom, I would have told housing, yes, I’ll be out of there and find something, but she says her mom is bedridden just about. She says where would I go and it’s causing me a lot of stress with Housing calling me. She says I’m doing the best I can, and she doesn’t drink. This lady has almost 20 years with education. She comes from a generation of when you have a job, you keep a job and you go to work and you have to go to work. So she’s saying why is Housing doing this to me. I’ve been living in this unit for a long time. You know, she’s one of these tenants that lived in these houses and raised her family. Now all of her children are gone. So I think we need to look at some of these situations with some tender loving care for some of these people in our houses.
Then you swing to the other end of the spectrum where people are living in these units and they’re not taking care of them. You see them in our communities. So how do we deal with that too? People are telling me that some of the young people are ruining these units and we’re paying for them and we’re not penalizing strong enough or we’re not doing them any favours. How are these young people getting into these units? You know, someone told me that they can’t even fix the doorknob. They had to call Housing to come over and fix a doorknob for them. Now that is really, really sad when we’re teaching young people not to take care of themselves or help themselves.
I hope with the Minister, we can work on some of these things. Housing is very important to us. You have an important job for us in our community. So how do we do things to help these young people and let them know that other people need these units? If I was to wreck my house, I would have to pay out of my own pocket, but somehow we tell them is it okay to kick the doors or smash the windows because we’ll come by and we’ll fix it for you. Maybe not today, but maybe in six months. We need to change that and Housing I think is in the position to do that.
It may seem hard and it may seem harsh for us as leaders and it might even cost some votes if we’re looking at an election, but let’s not worry about that. Let’s worry about our assets, let’s worry about what kind of houses we have and take pride in them. Like you said, it costs $41 million and we are paying for it as taxpayers. Society at large is paying for it. We have to look at that too.
The last part is to help some of these older seniors that are in their 90s and 70s and 80s because in the 60s and 50s they talked about units, in the 70s they should be in public housing. They have a different recollection of houses as compared to 2011. We have a wide range of interpretation of housing. We’re doing our best to help them.
I want to say to the Minister that I look forward to working with you. I look forward to how you deal with the vacant units in my region, how you deal with the public and home ownership units, how we get these people back into these units and work with them to look after their place. We need to do that. That may require more and more meetings face to face. I look forward to the Minister coming to the Sahtu to talk to the Sahtu people and sitting down and putting some solutions together. He’s got a big job ahead of him. I look forward to going through the budget detail by detail.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Next on my list is Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I named a number of suggestions and highlights of issues and frustrations in my Member’s statements and I just want to go through the Minister’s opening remarks here and point them out, and there are a good number of areas where I think things are going in the right direction or at least good now. We’re starting to take some good steps.
I want to acknowledge that in the past, prior to this year, we did get the 600 new units on the ground with some major completion of repairs. That’s a huge piece of work and curiously enough it’s presented some challenges that are unique and I’m glad to see that those are being addressed. I’ll mix that in in a bit here.
I am in concurrence that the primary focus for this fiscal year, this coming fiscal year, should be on improving existing social housing. To that end, I support the intent to deal with a number of replacements of public housing units, but especially modernizing and improving existing units. I think 126 was mentioned with the perspective that these investments are critical to enhance the long-term sustainability and energy efficiency of existing social housing which will, in turn, lower operating costs and so on. Lessen the impact of the CMHC funding and there’s no end to that drought in sight so I think we have to face the realities there. I’m glad to see this focus.
I also appreciate that the corporation has identified this new category of people who have income marginally exceeding the threshold and have come up with a plan to take advantage of the potential for home ownership there. That’s good work. They went out and found this category and they’re putting policies in place to address that.
The vacant strategy was obviously needed. This is getting back to my earlier comment about really having an unusual situation where we have some problems because of the rapid provision of these units. This strategy has been needed. We’ll now see how well that’s carried out. I have to say that I’m absolutely stunned, to coin a phrase used by an apparently unknown colleague of mine, that we haven’t had any new inventory to our public housing since the early ‘90s. This to me is absolutely astounding. I think it is indeed appropriate that some of these vacant units be rolled over into that and start addressing that gap. I realize we have operational costs associated as well.
The next point I want to talk about here is the apprentices. This is a key program with relatively modest funding, but a key program. I think the Minister’s got that message that we’re very supportive, I’m certainly supportive of this. My understanding was there were about 11 established I think this fiscal year, ten or 11. Some adjustments and the intent is for another... Is that 2011-2012 or is that this fiscal year? Anyway, we can get into that in details. I’m very supportive of that.
I mentioned earlier to the Minister of ECE that there’s a huge need for apprentices in our communities -- no news there -- especially for oil burner mechanics. This would be a real service to communities which would help save on fuel bills and so on and also have some environmental benefits. Mostly it’s just practical, easy with the available skills thing that could be done with some real focus. I’m hoping to see that focus brought through the Housing Corporation’s Apprenticeship Program.
I guess the biggest thing in the association with the next item is the shelter policy review. The Minister I’m sure is aware that we fought hard to keep this fully funded because we see a real priority for this. We see a huge need to get it done. I guess, getting into my next point related to that, I support the department’s interdepartmental approach and collaboration of policy, planning and coordination. These are good words. We want to actually see this in a practical sense on the ground and reflected through the shelter policy review product.
The other thing we really want to see, and I should speak for myself here, is we want to be involved. We have made many suggestions that we think would fall into this and I think the Minister would recall that we had a good discussion of that in committee.
Throughout our term we have made quite a number of suggestions that have been either simply ignored or with very little follow-up or uptake. Surely we understand that we do need to do things a little differently given the realities that we’re facing here, and if we’re going to have a sustainable housing program, we need to do some things differently. I think the biggest thing is the strength of partnerships that mention need to be extended to the strength of partnerships with our clients. We have a number of red-blooded, able-bodied people out there who do not have jobs that are in public housing and we need to do the job of figuring out how we can put those people to work in a way that addresses some of our costs. I have mentioned this before, but distributed energy systems where tenants are expected to provide a cord of wood a week or something like that for six weeks a year or whatever it might be, you know, a simple chainsaw and some training programs would take care of energy costs, a huge part of the energy costs of our housing programs. We know the forced policies are being worked on to allow this sort of thing and there are sustainable potentials here. These are where the potentials for gain are and they require a cross-departmental approach as the Housing Corporation is committing to follow. They’re not easy and I don’t have a lot of examples of them being done successfully yet in this government, despite the Premier’s pointing at these committees that he’s organized.
I’ll be looking for how this turns out at a practical level, but in the meantime I’m looking forward to discussing some of the detail and bringing out some examples here. Just by way of that, if I can offer the Minister this little tobacco for his pipe until we get around to the detail, the $925,000 small community dollars for hiring people, that in my mind should be directed through the Housing Corporation to hire public housing tenants and put them to work and develop their housing maintenance skills, wood cutting skills, whatever might be there. Where are our costs and where can we put the sort of skills that we can expect to be available with a minimal amount of training perhaps to address some of our costs here and get a long-term program going that builds on the savings and those sorts of things. Anyway. Enjoy your smoke. That’s all I have.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Next on my list is Mr. Jacobson.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Today I speak on housing. I’d like to see if we could get a rent scale. We’ve been bringing this up steady. I know that the Minister and the department have been looking into a three-tier system of dropping our rents down. We own these units outright by now. They’re very old units but well maintained. Most of them. If we could put a three-tiered system in from, say, your max rent would be $1,200, your minimum would be $800, and your low would be $600, and then not penalizing people who go and get part-time work. In the smaller communities people don’t want to go out and work because you’re being penalized for working and when the cheque comes in, a percentage goes to the corporation. I think if we worked at that I think we’d do a lot better for our people if we could put that into place.
The arrears, I know that meeting with the Minister numerous times with regard to moving in and talking with the communities, I know the Minister was working hard towards getting the arrears sorted out. He always says sort equity, people got to pay. And it’s true, but at the end of the day if they’re over a certain amount in so many years, the arrears for people who passed away, people and family members are being penalized for that. They’re still having to pay that and I think we should really look at that as well.
The people that are being evicted and are hard to house I think we should really look into and get that looked after. Some people in the communities are having 10 to 15 people in a four or five-bedroom house. That’s not right. I know it’s the client’s responsibility to pay, but I think if we could work with them with a little bit more open-handed approach and not make our guidelines ‘because the Minister is the boss and we could do that’ and work together with the people to keep their units and make minimal payments, for example, work with the Housing Corporation clearing steps over the minimum wage or something like that. Like I said, if the units are in not bad shape, but the windows and stuff, we could work towards that too.
Sachs Harbour, again I’d like to let the Minister know that we do need units in Sachs. We have young families coming back home that are trying to get into the community. I wish we could get one or two units in there for private home ownership. If it’s possible to look at getting a pilings and fuel tank program for private homeowners across the Territory, because in the smaller communities the pilings are rotting and the fuel tanks are leaking, which is causing people a lot of money to clean up, between $140,000, I heard, on the high end, and smaller at the lower end. It’s costing people a lot money if they don’t have home insurance.
For seniors repair, the program and maintenance program that we could give them for the windows and that, checking them every year. We have a list in the community, the LHOs should have a list of who are the private homeowners. Tuk did the Arctic Alliance. They went in and the kids did the windows this year. It was really good that the kids did that, the plastic wind covering for the windows for the draft coming in. That was a really good thing that the Tuk youth did in the community. We should get our maintenance staff to go and see if we can do that and fix that up, as well, once a year. The same with checking their furnaces and stuff, because we do have the harshest weather in the Territory.
Mr. Chair, the biggest thing is just working together. I know the Minister has a tough job and just working together to provide homes for our people that we represent and to be a little bit lenient. I look forward to the page by page of this department. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
