Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. Next on my list is Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Let me tell you about housing in my riding. Mr. Chair, as I travel throughout my constituency I’ve heard lots of the issues repeated time and time again. I’m pleased to say that we are making steps forward; however, in some areas we just seem to be stalled. A lot of constituents come to me and they’re really upset that they’ve been refused by Housing for programming and/or trying to get into a new HELP unit or the PATH program, and it’s all about arrears, about past arrears, past issues, and even accessing programming dollars, they have arrears. A lot of them can be managed with the new program to work with the clients and come up with a different management plan. However, many of my constituents really dispute the arrears because they are very old, some of them up to 20 years old but it’s still on their file and some of them even recent, as much as five years old. They’re disputing them, saying the work was incomplete or they weren’t satisfied with the housing, just for a number of reasons. This is the reason why I continue to ask the Housing ministry to look at an independent appeal system.
Constituents are frustrated because the way the system is now, they’re actually appealing to the person that told them no in the first place. It’s just not working and that’s the reason they’re getting frustrated. However, in some of our other departments, namely Education, Culture and Employment, if someone’s not happy with the program, they got rejected or something, then they’re allowed to look at an independent appeals process to plead their case and have somebody review it. I think this will go a long way in addressing their concerns, because I really do believe that some of their concerns are real. They had a house built up to $150,000, $200,000, they’ve had it turned over to them and the corporation wants them to pay full mortgage but at the same time there are lots of deficiencies. I’m not too sure a way around it. Sometimes it could be up to looking at a forgivable loan or else say, yes, you have a deficient house, it’s not worth $200,000, it’s not worth $150,000. Let’s work around that. But as it is now, the mechanism that we have in place is it’s $200,000. It’s $200,000 on the books and perhaps the Housing Corporation is obligated to stay firm on that, but at the same time I believe in the clients, I believe in my constituents that they felt they’re wrong, so we should have a real good look at it and I believe that establishing an independent appeals system in the NWT Housing Corporation will go a long way.
Another more recent issue that came up was there was an elder in one of my communities. His furnace broke down. His hot water tank broke down. It was just last month when it was very, very cold. It just so happened, Mr. Chair, that he had exhausted all his programming choices. He had exhausted his RRAP, his CARE, every other program that’s out there. He exhausted them all. He’s on old age security and fixing a furnace in a remote community means somebody’s got to fly in and he just doesn’t have the means to repair his house. Fortunately, there was a quick solution. I believe the Housing Corporation had actually planned to go there the next day anyway and they were able to bring in someone to repair the furnace, so they managed that, but he still has a hot water tank that needs replacing but he’s exhausted all programming areas.
I think what used to work is we used to have a seniors repair program and that’s exactly what it was used for, was to help the seniors repair their homes in emergency cases like this. He’s not asking for very much. He’s asking to repair his furnace and replace his hot water tank, up to $2,000, and if there’s a tradesperson around doing work for the Housing Corporation, there could be a further savings there. That’s a missing component. It’s not only in that community I’ve seen it. I’ve seen it in other areas. I’m advocating on behalf of our seniors and the elderly and we really don’t have a program for them. We used to have it. I really think that we should bring that back. In fact, it’s probably something I’ll be working on here next week and have a debate of that nature in the House, Mr. Chair, as I’d certainly like to see a return to that.
Something that was curious was we got a HELP program and then we got a PATH program and I had thought when we go from the HELP program to the PATH program that the client actually builds credit. You know, he’s paying for two to three years into this house and I thought he gets a credit when he actually becomes eligible for a PATH program towards the purchase of his new house, but that doesn’t seem like it’s true, because I checked it out and a couple of clients were asking me about it. I really had thought that that was the case there, Mr. Chair.
As we deliberate the budget for the next nine days there, Mr. Chair, and I don’t want to beat the Health Minister’s record, but as we deliberate the budget today and perhaps tomorrow as well, I certainly will ask the Minister... As well, he’s free to comment on this issue too. I know it’s not there, but can it be there? Can we look at ways of having it there?
Housing and mould is always a big issue. People are coming to me. The reason they are wanting new houses or new rental places is because the home that they exist in right now is full of mould. It’s that black mould. It causes respiratory diseases not only to the adults and many of them have children. In fact, I ran into a family from Fort Liard that actually had to travel to Yellowknife for respiratory problems with their children. That’s what they told me. They said my house is full of black mould and the furnace just moves all those spores around and around that unit. We do have a bit of a mould program but I would urge the Housing ministry to continue to see how we can mitigate it and best manage that. I know that I think they had a pamphlet, they say just go around and splash around some solution, but at the same time I think that maybe we should have a program, maybe a summer works program and kick into employing our Small Communities Employment Program contribution to extend them for another week or something, but if you get into these homes and do some of this cleaning and help the homeowners.
I did a Member’s statement a couple of weeks ago after I was inspired by seeing Holmes on Homes. Mr. Minister can invite him up to Tuktoyaktuk again publicly. Again, I was impressed that there was mould-free construction techniques and methodologies out there that does not add to the cost of new home construction. That is something that I raised with the Minister and I still think that Housing should have a good look at that, make it policy, make lots of things policy.
I think that when we are buying wood, I think I indicated to him that it was BluWood, this is becoming the standard now, and to investigate that further and report back to the House that yes, okay, it may be feasible to have mould-free construction guidelines and policies within the NWT Housing Corporation without causing additional costs. I truly believe that the NWT Housing Corporation should at least investigate that. It would just help our people, help our communities and help our homes, making every place a better place to live.
Maybe just in closing, Mr. Chairman, I do want to say that I am happy with the working relationship with the front-line workers in my region. I want to give them a pat on the back and everybody is doing their best. We had lots of challenges out there and the constituents as well. We are working very hard and trying to do our best. I think the best example, I had one constituent, after seven years finally got the programming that they want. It takes a long time to work through the issues of arrears, et cetera. But I believe that having an independent assessment to have a good look at those hard arrears cases out there, the constituents and clients deserve that, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. I have nobody else on my list. Does committee agree that we have concluded general comments?
Agreed.
I will go to the Minister so that he can respond to the general comments that he has heard so far. Minister McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There were a lot of good comments around the table and I appreciate some of the extra positive comments that we heard. There was a couple of kudos to some of the work that has been going on in the NWT Housing Corporation, so that, compared to last year or maybe the year before, shows me that we are making progress.
We try and work with committee as close as we can to keep them up to date on some of the initiatives that we have. We recently had a strategy briefing with committee, so it has always been my intent to take the feedback from committee and see if we are able to try and incorporate that into some of the future decisions that we make. I think we have had a fairly good working relationship. When it comes to housing, we all have an opinion and sometimes you listen to those opinions and they make very good sense. It helps us do our job a lot better.
Mr. Krutko had raised and a few other Members had talked about the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation declining funding, and that is one we continue to have a struggle with. We have been working hard at trying to engage the federal government in coming to the table. Mr. Krutko said it was a country-wide problem and it really is. We have been trying to engage the federal government to come to the table and have a discussion on that. We have been talking to our counterparts in some of the other regions across the country and they are all feeling the pinch, too, and we try and do what we can to address some of the shortfalls. We are going to a lot of multi-unit type units that share services, so we are looking at ways that we could try and reduce some of our operating costs.
I think it was Mr. Bromley and Mr. Krutko talked about the apprentices. We are very pleased with the support that we have from Rural and Remote that identified some funds to bring on an apprentice. I think we have 15 on the books right now with an additional 10 more that we are looking at bringing on stream for this fiscal year, so we are quite pleased with that.
If you look in the communities with the folks that we have working at the LHOs and in some communities the LHOs will actually do a lot of the repairs on the units themselves, the modernization and improvements, so some communities have been able to build up a real good little base of regular people that they use every year. They may bring 17 folks on during the summer to do a lot of this work and then a lot of the LHOs will hire students for the summer. I think the Housing Corporation and the LHOs in particular contribute greatly to employment in the communities. We’d like it to be better and that is why we have 15 apprentices, we have 10 more coming on board and it is going to benefit the communities, too, because we are going to have folks in the communities that are going to actually have the training to do furnaces and things like that, so you don’t have to have expense of flying somebody in.
Mr. Yakeleya talked about the number of vacant units that we have. We actually have 135 vacant units across the Northwest Territories right now, but I think I gave all the numbers. The 82 were those that we have identified that are potential homeowners that we can get into those units.
Speaking of the homeowners, Mr. Menicoche had raised when a client is in the HELP program and he transitions into the PATH. There is actually a $10,000 credit, so we may have to follow up on that if your client feels that they didn’t qualify or they didn’t receive the credit.
The rent scale we are continuing to work on as part of our Shelter Policy review and we are looking forward to having that work completed soon. We hear the argument all the time about penalizing people that go to work, and Mr. Yakeleya had mentioned a constituent of his, I am not sure if it was $1,800 he was paying or if he was assessed at $1,800, and those are the type of people. We recognize the concerns of committee and getting seasonal workers, as one Member pointed out, we recognize that and we have been looking at going at a regional type of rate. I think in one of the Members’ ridings, they talked about a community 20 minutes away from another community and the difference in the economic rent was unreal. So we feel if we go to a bit of a regional type rate, then that may bring the rates down in some of the higher communities. That is something that we are looking at rolling out and seeing how that will work.
I particularly like Mr. Yakeleya’s comments on the folks needing to look after their units. It is something that we struggle with. I have been to a few communities, I have been down the street in one community and I was disappointed at what I saw there. Every window on that street, practically, was boarded up. It is not acceptable. We had a public meeting that evening and I actually told them how disappointed I was at the number of boarded up windows that were on that street.
Part of the dollar figure that you see in the arrears amount is, a lot of it, we have over $2 million in tenant damages. We have to change that and it is an educational thing. Folks have to start looking after their units. They have to realize that there are shelter costs and looking after their shelter should be a priority. With a lot of folks out there paying mortgages, shelter is obviously your number one priority, because the banks are not as kind as the NWT Housing Corporation. If you don’t make your payment, the banks don’t care if you’re working or not. They just come and take it away.
I have really been encouraged by the number of folks that have entered into repayment plans. I have numbers. I am really encouraged. It might be $18 a month, but that is a commitment and they are meeting it. It goes up to $400 a month. That is another commitment and they are meeting it. I find that very encouraging. Somebody said Housing is not an easy portfolio to have. I think that is very true. Every once in a while you hear a story about the lady that has been paying on her arrears for a few years, just a small amount a month, but she got it cleared off. I find stories like that encouraging.
I appreciate Mr. Menicoche’s comments about his working relationship with the front-line staff. I will be sure to pass that on. It is important to us to try and work with the MLAs and keep them up to speed on what we are doing. Even in my office, I feel that I need to consult with the MLAs on a regular basis and let them know what we are up to and seek their input.
Seniors are our priority. We continue to work very hard with the seniors and I think Mr. Menicoche talked about a senior in one of his communities. We do have a Seniors Preventative Maintenance Program where, in the fall time, the seniors get their furnaces serviced and any other minor repairs that are needed around their house. There are times where we run into situations like the one he spoke of. I was glad that it was able to be resolved, because we do what we can to help seniors.
People are refused for some of our programs because of arrears. We try very hard to fit as many people into the programs that we can. The HELP program allows you to carry up to $5,000 in arrears and you can still qualify for the HELP program. So that is good faith on the Housing Corporation’s part in trying to fit people into units.
I think Mr. Bromley had spoken to the gap in the program, trying to get more people that are just over the threshold into home ownership. This year I think so far we have identified about 20 clients that fit that category, so that is 20 more that we are able to get into home ownership because of the gap. We are quite pleased with that.
We are also quite pleased with the fact that the word is getting out there that Housing needs to work with the people in the communities but also the people in the communities need to work with the Housing Corporation. We talk about working together all the time. That is fine in theory, but we can’t always be the ones trying to initiate everything. We need folks to start buying into it. I think we are starting to see that. A lot of it is an educational thing.
As far as the evictions go, and I have said this on a number of occasions, eviction is not a one-week process. Housing didn’t just wake up one morning and decide that somebody was going to get evicted today. They start with a termination and they are given opportunity to come to the board. Actually, first they come into the LHO. They can work on a repayment plan. Some people may not honour those. They get an opportunity to go to the board and sometimes the board will say, okay, we will give you another chance. Work out a repayment plan. As long as you honour that repayment plan, you continue to remain a tenant of the local LHO. It is just when they have exhausted all avenues, then that is when it goes to an eviction.
Going back to Mr. Menicoche’s issue on appeal, we are looking at April 1st of rolling out an appeals board that folks across the Territories home ownership, if they feel they have been slighted, they have an opportunity to appeal it.
I will stop there, Mr. Chairman. I am sure the Members are looking forward to getting into the page by page. I appreciate all the comments that we have heard today. I appreciate some of the compliments that we got. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. What is the wish of the committee? Detail? Alright. Housing Corporation starts on page 5-41 but it is the summary page so we are going to defer that page and turn to page 5-43 for consideration of detail. Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One of the issues that always comes to our attention is how we make a determination or evaluation of where houses should go. Over the years we have had core housing needs surveys done in regards to different core needs in different communities. Especially one thing that we find is, where we don’t have LHOs it seems to be a real challenge. I think that with the government’s decision to allow those units that were built in the communities where we don’t have local housing authorities, I think that we should continue to have some type of community, I wouldn’t call them LHO, but you can call it some sort of a community cooperative of some sort.
I know this issue was around in regards to Fort Liard in which it was sad for myself to go in there and see the amount of money that was put into that community to deal with the Kotaneelee housing project and then I actually see houses boarded up because the windows were smashed and yet we spent a million dollars there. But yet the community was pushing for an LHO.
I know Tsiigehtchic has asked for the same thing. Again, at the end of the day when we make those determinations or evaluations, we have to keep going back to these core needs studies, looking at the core needs in those communities and where the highest needs are, and more importantly, realizing that we have a lot of aging infrastructure. We have to look at the lifecycle of those facilities. How do we follow the core needs survey, identifying those communities that have high core needs, and more importantly, requirements for housing on the basis of those studies and surveys that are done every so many years that gives us that sort of clear direction of the status of those housing units that are in our different communities?
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Robert McLeod.
Mr. Chairman, one of the basis for the capital allocation in the communities is the community survey. Housing needs survey is the component of that. I think we try to tailor this coming up infrastructure delivery on part of the core need. There are also things that are taken into consideration, the priorities of the community leadership, whether it be homeownership or public housing.
The Member is right; we do have some communities that don’t have LHOs. We are finding that with some of the units that we are going to convert into public housing are in communities that have no LHOs. We are always open to partnerships.
We have had some discussions with some of the communities where the Aboriginal government there are able to provide us with some services, be it administration if they are able to do some of the maintenance, we will enter into a partnership agreement with them. That way it is easier for us as a corporation because we don’t have to be bringing people into that community. The opportunity is there to work out partnerships with communities and there are a few other factors we take into consideration. Land is always another huge factor. The program intake, some communities may have more applicants than others. The needs survey plays a large part. I know the numbers in the past needs survey didn’t reflect very well. It went from 16 to 19 percent, but I have said a couple of times I am quite confident that if we were to do another needs survey, then I think we will see a decline in the numbers. I am quite confident in that. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, I know in the past, one of the ways we try to work with communities that didn’t have LHOs is work out what we call community service agreements with them that they have sort of a... Give them $10,000 or $15,000 and let them hire somebody internally that work with the local regional staff. When they come in, they have somebody there that they can talk to, sort of a liaison position for those communities.
I think that communities, if they realize that they have a say and they basically have a stake in the infrastructure that is in their communities, you will see them take better care of it, knowing that they are responsible, they are going to have a say who is going to go in there, what repairs have to be done to the different units, where people can come to and I think it’s something that we’re looking at through the small community initiatives in regard to the one-stop shop sort of thing where we have program officers now in different communities. I think the same concept can work with the Housing Corporation where we don’t have LHOs, and I think it’s because of those units and those communities we hear a lot of outcry of why they’re not being required or why they’re being boarded up and a lot of it is because you’re so far from the regional centres that you don’t have people on the ground that you can actually talk to unless you physically fly in there. In most cases that does not work for most communities.
Again, I think that’s something that we should be looking at to try to embrace the communities and get the communities to take some ownership of these units in their communities where we don’t have LHOs, but work out a relationship where we can work in conjunction with either the local band governments or whoever the government structure is in that community. Thank you.
The Member makes a very good point, because it is our intent to try and work with those communities that don’t have LHOs and try to come up with some kind of a service agreement as the Member had mentioned. We find that lately we have been making some good progress. We have some communities where there is actually quite a large number of vacant units in there and we’ve kind of entered into an agreement with them to keep an eye on those units. So we’re making progress on that front and we’re looking forward to, as we converge some of these units into public housing, working with the local band or local government. Well, the local band is the local government in this particular community. So we look forward to working with them to come up with a partnership agreement where they would look after probably administration and the maintenance, because they have the qualified people to look after the maintenance of these units. So it will be beneficial to the community and beneficial to the NWT Housing Corp. Thank you.
One of the issues, just in response to the Minister’s response earlier in regard to the questions raised by the Members, is the whole area of the seniors repair programs. I think a lot of challenges we’re seeing in our communities is we wait for a lot of these contracts to be let and you’re only talking $1,000 or $2,000 of any emergency repairs that have to be done. I think if we could work out arrangements with the local maintenance staff through the local LHOs and give them the money and ask that they include those seniors in those communities as part of their ongoing maintenance anyway, because every LHO does their maintenance in the summer months, they hire extra staff to come on side, they hire summer students. Again, I think this is one way that you can keep those revenues in the communities, but also achieve the results of offering that service to the seniors that are eligible for the programs, and we know who they are. Again, that money stays in the community; it generates employment during the summer months.
In most cases somebody will clean out someone’s water tank or clean the furnace, servicing type of work. I think that could be done locally through the LHO maintenance staff. Again, I think the seniors would greatly appreciate that, because it seems like, you know, they hound you all summer as the MLA because they applied on it and they didn’t hear back from anybody. Then by the time the person comes around, it’s usually they show up in the fall time when it’s getting cold and they come in and they’re gone again, but if anything happens, they’ll come running back to the MLA and say, look, they didn’t do it right. At least if it’s the LHO, it’s in the community. They’re there, they can come back and finish off whatever repairs have to be made. So I think that’s something that we should consider in regards to offering that to the LHOs and, personally, I don’t think the LHO maintenance staff have a problem with that. If anything, they’re probably glad to help the seniors in their communities, especially dealing with their maintenance issues. Thank you.
Where there’s opportunity for us to maybe work with the local LHOs and maybe add these seniors units onto preventative maintenance schedule that they do in the summer, there’s opportunity. I mean, there is a good option that I could commit to the Member that we’ll discuss with a lot of the LHOs. Where some communities may have a local contractor that’s able to do the work, we don’t want to cut the feet out from under him, so we’d have to give him an opportunity maybe to give us a price. But in some cases where they can’t do it, then it’s a good option and we’ll work with the local LHOs, because I don’t think in most communities, especially the smaller communities, it’s going to add a lot onto the work that they already do and they probably appreciate it, and the seniors probably appreciate it a lot more because they’d have somebody there that they’re quite familiar with doing the work. So I’ll commit to working on that. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. Next on my list, Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to ask questions on the needs survey on this page. I don’t know where else or what other area. I know it’s in programs, but I thought this would be an okay spot under the corporate summary to ask about the needs survey.
Mr. Chairman, I’m wondering if the Minister could provide some detail on the needs survey, and by that I’m referring to some sort of work plan I suppose as a result of the needs survey, because I want to see if there’s an intention to not use the numbers. I know that if we’re just using numbers, the greatest need by number would be Yellowknife, but, rather, using percentages, the fact that in some communities the percentage and need is half the community. So I’m wondering if the Minister could tell me if there’s a community-by-community strategy as it pertains to the last needs survey document, and by that I mean is there any intention to address the communities that have the greatest need as a priority.
Minister of Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We recognize as well as the Member that the biggest need percentage-wise obviously is in some of the smaller communities. So we recognize that and we try to tailor our infrastructure plan to that. We continue to try to adjust this on an ongoing basis and we continue to work with the other departments. So I think we’re finding ways that we can incorporate the needs survey into how we allocate units and it’s something I think we’ll continue to do in the future. We have to, I mean, we hear it as well as most people that, especially from the MLAs and I think we heard the Member for Nunakput talk about one of his communities. It’s even information like that that’s helpful to us, because he said we need a unit or two in our communities. So we look at all those factors and try and tailor our infrastructure and make sure that we distribute our resources evenly and fairly into those communities that are in most need. Thank you.
Staying with the needs survey, I’m wondering if the Minister is looking at the need incidences, and by that I’m referring to affordability, adequacy and suitability. I’m assuming that we address suitability by adding bedrooms. By adding bedrooms I mean adding units. I’m assuming we address adequacy by fixing houses. I’m assuming we fix affordability by providing affordable housing. So I’m wondering if the needs survey document or this corporation is using its own needs survey document to ensure that they’re addressing suitability issues with the appropriate resources and adequacy issues with the appropriate resources. So I’m saying that in small communities, including Fort Resolution and Lutselk’e, that our issue is adequacy. I feel like we have inventory, but the inventory is not in good shape and I’m not talking about the Housing Corporation’s own inventory. Public housing is in fine shape as far as I’m concerned. They’ve got money to fix it and they maintain and they have good staff to maintain the units in both of the communities I represent. My issue is that the units that are privately owned have serious adequacy issues. I’m wondering if the needs survey is also tweaked in that way to follow what the actual incident of need is. Adequacy, suitability or affordability.
We do try and make sure that those communities that are in the most need are talking about the adequacy of the home ownership programs or the private homeowners. When the Member first started his statement I kept thinking he was referring to our public housing stock, not realizing until he clarified it that he was talking about some of the home ownership issues. Obviously we put a lot of money into the care in the last few years and a lot of the communities were looking at the needs survey. Where there was an adequacy issue, we tried to tailor some of the resources and put more resources into some of these communities. Obviously the homeowners would have to qualify. Again, that’s another big issue. We try to distribute the resources fairly and make sure that some of the communities that are in highest need get a closer look, because we would want those folks in those communities to have their units fixed up. Again, the key issue is that they qualify for the program and the unit will get fixed up.
The last area I’d like to talk about in the needs survey is the area of groups. I’m wondering if the corporation has put more resources into evaluating or assessing the needs survey in the sense that you’re putting seniors, couples, singles, and families of three or more in the family, if the Housing Corporation has done that type of grouping from the 2010 needs survey. I’m wondering if that grouping has happened since the needs survey document was presented to the House.
Mr. Polakoff.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Over the next couple of years, just to the Member’s question with regard to more resources, over the last year we’ve asked CMHC to take a look at the needs survey as we had originally developed it. It’s been in place for quite some time in the NWT, but to look at our methodology and provide some comments. They did provide some comments on how the needs survey was put together. We’ve also been working with the NWT Stats Bureau and asking them for their input, because, as the Member is aware, there can be a close relationship between the needs survey and the NWT census information. In looking at things like groups, for example seniors, we feel that we can combine our resources in working with the Stats Bureau in coming up with better information on need overall and look at coordinating our efforts with the Stats Bureau when they’re developing census information.
That’s it for questioning on this page.
Page 5-43, NWT Housing Corporation, information item. Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to ask the Minister with regard to the federal funding for social housing that’s declining each year. Can the Minister inform me as to how much money each year the federal government is declining its funding to the Northwest Territories?
Mr. McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In 2010-2011, and I’ve used this figure a couple of times, we lost $676,000. In 2011-2012, this upcoming year, we’re looking at $754,895 that we won’t be getting from CMHC. I think cumulative to date we are about $11 million that we’ve declined from CMHC and that’s from 1997-1998 up until now.
That’s quite a considerable amount of money that’s declining. I want to tie this into the core needs housing survey that was done in 2009. Some of the high communities in the number were my area. Listening to the Minister, I was hoping we could match some of the funding that would address some of the core needs in the Northwest Territories. I’m hoping what the Minister’s wishes were if we were to do another survey, I hope to see the numbers come down. That’s what I’m hoping for. I know that won’t happen within the life of this Assembly, again, to do another needs survey.
With this in mind here, the houses that I know that the inadequacy, suitability and affordability is really high in my region. With the decline of the funding, by the year 2038 the funding should be zero from the federal government. Of course, between now and then, other things could happen. I want to ask the Minister about addressing the needs in the Sahtu, because I know the previous core needs survey was supposed to look at that high number and when we did the one in 2009 it was still the highest, close to Nahendeh.
Are we putting enough funding, I guess, to meet the needs to drop the core needs of my region? That’s what I want to ask.
We’re quite confident that with the investment that was made by the federal government and matched by the NWT Housing Corporation I think once we get to the point where we do another community needs survey I think we’re going to see the numbers come down drastically. I keep saying I’m quite confident, so they’re going to have to come down, because we’ve had a lot of investment into all communities and the community needs survey that was just completed here in 2009, as I’ve responded to Mr. Beaulieu, I was saying we’re trying to use some of the numbers from there to help us allocate our resources to those communities that are in higher need so we can bring some of that need down. I think overall if we were to do another needs survey at the end of this construction season or next construction season, I’m very confident that the numbers will come down, because I don’t know if these numbers truly reflect the number of units that were put on the ground with the investment from the federal government. I don’t think it addresses those at all.
We had put a lot of money into home repairs through the investment that we had from the federal government and matched by the GNWT. I believe once we do another community needs survey we’re going to see quite a difference in the numbers.
I’ll have to hope that between now and the end of August we could do a quick look at those, the core needs survey, to see if it’s there, to see the numbers come down. The Minister is confident, so I hope that the Minister does make sure the numbers come down in my region, because we certainly want to see that.
I want to ask the Minister about creating programs for the core needs. One of them that other Members talked about was the seniors program. Some of the programs that used to be in the communities for the seniors, and I like what the Minister said that there’s possibly some discussion around maybe having the local housing authorities actually have somebody in the organization to look after just primarily the seniors. You’re also up against some qualified people in the communities that could take that on as a job. There’s a fine line in terms of how do we work that. For me what I want to make sure is that the seniors are being taken care of, either by the contracting from housing or the local housing authority themselves. Seniors should have somebody going around to their places and checking off that their furnaces are being checked, their water lines are being checked, their fuel tanks are being looked after. Things like that they know they can rely on one Steady Eddy coming around the units and saying this is what we’re going to do and this is what we’re going to look at and take care of themselves. That’s what I’m focusing on. Who does it? Well, work out the funding that will hire somebody to do that. That’s a real big movement forward to looking after seniors in our small communities. That’s what I’m thinking about in terms of a seniors program. There are other programs out there, but really the seniors are asking for somebody to help them with some of the maintenance of their building.
They are also programs out there that the seniors are not really being told about or being explained well enough in their languages to apply for them or look for them. The Minister and I had a little bit of an exchange earlier on the land claim tenure in terms of helping the seniors. They sometimes just want to know why they’re not being looked after. They don’t know if their application has been rejected or if they really understand why their applications are being rejected. I’d like to see something here that really dedicates their time to our elders, because most of our elders speak their first languages, which are Aboriginal languages. We need to sit down with them and talk to them about it.
I’m hoping that the Housing Corporation could look at a way to put together a seniors program for all seniors to be taken care of. That will be a big boost for the Housing Corporation with our seniors.
We do what we can to try and accommodate our seniors in any way possible. The Preventive Maintenance Program -- when I was responding to Mr. Krutko -- when the opportunity arises, we’ll use folks from the community. It will be a Preventive Maintenance Program and it will be a contract that we would work out for certain types of work. We would have to make sure that the seniors are well aware of that. We try to -- and I think I committed to Mr. Beaulieu during question period at one time -- work with some of the seniors in their first language. We’d be able to so they understand exactly what they’re getting into and what some of the options are. I think we go to great lengths to try and accommodate our seniors as best we can and try to assist our seniors as best we can.
Next I have Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under corporate summary I’m going to strive for a policy-type question but it obviously will get into the areas of specifics that are further along. My concern is about collections and policy. Is the Minister able to provide some information which is what is the collection rate at the departmental level of the corporation level, sorry, on mortgage rates and, of course, rental rates? What is the collection rate? Thank you.
Minister of Housing.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The mortgage collection rate is about 40 percent and the rental collection rate is about 76 percent right now. Thank you.
Does the Minister have a dollar amount attributed to that 40 percent and that 76, respectively? So that would be for mortgage and rental. Would he be able to attach dollar amounts to what is collected and what is outstanding? Thank you.
Both rental arrears and mortgage arrears are about $13 million, so we’re looking at $26 million total. Thank you.
Does the department have a policy on the threshold that defines what’s considered to be a reasonable rate of return or I should say a reasonable rate of collection? Thank you.
Mr. Chair, we ask our LHOs to have a collection rate of about 90 percent, and I think for the mortgage we look at about the same amount too. Thank you.
Speaking directly about the LHOs, what is the policy if an LHO is falling behind on the compliance of 90 percent on either/or? Thank you.
Mr. Chair, obviously, if the LHO falls behind on the 90 percent, that takes money away from their O and M and their ability to operate. We would have to work with those LHOs very closely, because we do have some LHOs that are in a bit of a deficit and we have to work with them to come up with a debt recovery plan. It’s to their benefit to try and have the 90 percent rate, but at the same time we can’t put all of the onus on the LHO. The tenants have to come up with their share of it too. This puts LHOs into a bind because it affects sometimes their ability to do the maintenance and the O and M, so we’ve had to work with these LHOs quite closely to make sure that they don’t get into dire financial straits. Thank you.
How long is the collection rate for mortgages been at 40 percent and the rental rate collection at 76 percent? How long has that been? Thank you.
The 40 percent for the mortgage is fairly consistent. The 76 percent, I think as we move back into the LHOs doing the assessments and that, I think we’re going to see a bit of spike in the collection rate. I think we’ve already seen a bit of a spike. It may have been at 64 percent at one particular time, if not lower, and so the number is starting to climb and I’m sure as more and more folks are going into their LHOs to get assessed and then being able to pay their rent right there, I think we will see that 76 start moving up. Thank you.
What’s the plan of the department, corporately that is, to start picking up the 60 percent of our mortgages that are still left outstanding when we’re referring to payments? Thank you.
Mr. Chair, we’ve given people an opportunity to enter into a mortgage repayment plan and we have had fairly good uptake. We have 139 who have chosen one of the options, the mortgage payment plan. We’ve had some that have refinanced through the bank. We have some that have refinanced through the NWT Housing Corporation. We have some that have entered into repayment plans. We’re quite confident and, as I said in my opening remarks, we will get to the point where we will take legal action on some of the folks that are further behind on their payments.
This is one that we struggle with and I’ve said a few times, part of the onus is on the NWT Housing Corporation because we should have gone after these folks a lot sooner to prevent them from getting into the situations that a lot of them find themselves in now. Part of the onus is on us and we accept that, but a lot of the onus is on the tenants because they signed an agreement to make a payment plan and too many times shelter costs are not one of their priorities. We’ve kind of fostered that by not being as forceful as we should have and we’ve allowed them to accumulate their arrears, and now we’re finding ourselves in a position of where we’re having to go and make all these folks accountable for the amount of arrears that they’re in. Thank you.
In the last, we’ll say, five years, how many mortgages have been under the scrutiny of legal action to pay? Thank you.
All the new programs we have now are all forgivable. The ones that are mortgages... I mean, we’re starting the legal proceedings just this particular year. Within the last five years, we really haven’t done much towards being...(inaudible)... We try as hard as we can to work with the clients and legal action is the last resort. Unfortunately, that’s where we find ourselves today having to take legal action against those that are in most arrears. Thank you.
I take it from the Minister’s answer that there’s never been anyone evicted or forced out if they have not been making their payments in the last five years. Thank you.
I was just making sure I got the correct information here before I responded to the Member. In the last five years we have had some foreclosures and now we have some that we’re working on, we’re taking legal action, and we have about 50 more pending. Thank you.
