Thank you, Mr. Bromley. I didn’t hear a question, but would the Minister like to respond?
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do try to make it a point and I will keep the Member up to date on any developments not only in his community but the other communities where we’re facing some challenges. I will keep the Members apprised of the goings-on in their ridings. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. Next on my list is Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to take the time and the opportunity out of the Committee of the Whole to recognize my older brother up in the gallery, Raymond Yakeleya, who has come to see the proceedings of the House. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. I didn’t hear a question, so I’ll go to the next person on my list, which is Mr. Krutko.
I better put on my rose coloured glasses. My question is in regard to LHOs. I know the community of Tsiigehtchic did raise this question with the Minister that they had an LHO in the community of Tsiigehtchic but they don’t have it anymore. I noted, looking through your information, you have units in some 26 communities but you only have 23 LHOs. I’d just like to ask when can we expect to see an LHO in the community of Tsiigehtchic where they had a local housing authority previous and they don’t have that anymore. I’d just like to know when we can see that local housing authority being established or implemented again so that they can hire people to sit on the board.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We do have a manager in there and we do have a maintenance person, but they don’t have an LHO board. That’s been a question that’s been asked to me by some of the leadership of Tsiigehtchic. My answer to them was as soon as they write us a letter saying that they want to form an LHO and form a board. I think the last time was at the regional leaders meeting in Inuvik and I mentioned that to the chief in response to his question, and at the Gwich’in leadership meeting I responded to one of the councillor’s question with the same answer. We’re waiting to hear from them. We’re working with them. As soon as they give us an indication in writing that they want to form their board, then we’ll proceed. Thank you.
I’m not too clear but I thought the understanding was that the local housing authorities are registered under the Societies Act as an organization, in which they have to hold annual meetings and at the annual meetings is when they elect their board in the community. I’m just wondering if the Minister or the regional staff can go into Tsiigehtchic and host a community meeting so that they can follow the bylaws that already exist. They already registered as a society; it’s just a matter of having the public meeting. I’d just like to ask the Minister if he can direct his staff or the regional staff to go into Tsiigehtchic, schedule an annual meeting and give them an update on their financial status as a local housing authority and at that time appoint a board from the public as it’s referred to in their bylaws. They already established a society under the Societies Act, so it’s just a matter of having that meeting and appoint a board. Thank you.
Mr. Chair, I’ll direct staff to find out about the Societies Act and if that’s the case, then… Because we thought the letter that we were going to get from them was going to trigger the whole thing, but if they’re already a society, then, I mean, we have no issue of going into the community. We’ll direct staff to maybe go in there and meet with them and just give them a bit of a briefing or an update and then, I’m not sure how their bylaws would work, but if they were to elect their own board during a general meeting, but that would be up to them. I’ll commit to the Member that I’ll direct staff to work very closely with the community of Tsiigehtchic to see what we can do about getting the local board established. Thank you.
Just following up on a question asked by my colleague Mr. Bromley in regard to how do we help LHOs getting out of arrears. I think Tsiigehtchic should be a good role model for people to follow because they had the same problem. They basically had to downsize their operation in which they, like you mentioned, they just simply cut themselves right down to two people. You have a maintainer and basically a local administrator. But again, what they did there was they worked with their tenants, they found a bunch of units they had to dispose of, they hired people, or didn’t hire them but basically told the tenants you’ve got arrears, there’s a way we think you can work this off. One of the ways was to basically dispose of those units, train a few people, and, again, a lot of the tenants were women, young, single mothers who were able to get some job experience by ripping these units apart, salvage whatever you can, work off your arrears, half goes towards your arrears, half you get to take home. I think that’s an illustration of how you can work with LHOs and communities to pay down the rent.
I know Mr. Bromley has raised the issues of why couldn’t they shovel the sidewalks or basically cut wood for different people and find ways in our communities that you can work off your arrears than simply have arrears continue to build up, build up, build up. I think that’s the type of stuff that we have to work with with the LHOs of finding unique ways so we know there are high pockets of unemployment, there are people that are willing to work off these things.
One of the areas where I think we really have a good opportunity to do that is a lot of the retrofits and a lot of the work that has to be done locally in the summer months is a perfect chance to put some of these people that have arrears to work with the idea that, okay, we’ll come to work, we’ll take half your pay, put it against your arrears, you get to take home the other half. That’s the type of stuff that we have to work on with the LHOs and the tenants so that they can show that, you know, we’ll work with you, you work with us, we’ll find solutions to our problems and bring down the arrears in our communities. Again, this is an illustration of how a community was able to do that. They’re basically out of the red now. They’re in the black. They’re doing good. Their collections are up and I think that’s what we want to see.
Again, I’d just like to pass that on to the Minister because I think that’s the type of stuff that we have to learn from, and more importantly, implement elsewhere. Thank you.
That was a very good example of the work they did in Tsiigehtchic and it’s something that we should promote as the Housing Corp, and even as the government, to encourage a lot of our folks in the communities to come up with innovative ways to deal with the arrears. I mean, there are productive choices that they’re supposed to go through income support. That would be another good opportunity. It’s something that I will commit to this House that as a corporation we’ll try to work with our LHOs to see if we can find other thinking outside the box ideas where we can assist the tenants and not only assist the tenants, then, it would also help with the LHO, and the tenants feel a lot more responsible for their units. It’s just advice that I will take from the Member. Thank you.
I just have a question to the Minister or one of the staff in regard to writing off bad debts. We have debts we carried on our books in regard to people who have passed on. Basically, if you’re a couple, you have someone’s debt that basically will fall over to you. Is there anything that the government has done to dispose of bad debts in the local housing authority where we know that the person is deceased or we know that because of ailment and whatnot, there’s no way these people will ever be able to pay that off. Is there some sort of a disposal of debts act that we can look at to deal with the Housing Corporation debt? Thank you.
Mr. Chair, we are looking at coming forward with writing off debts exactly as the Member had stated. There are some deceased people that are still showing. We’re planning on writing those off and we’re looking at other hardship cases. As a corporation, we have been, for the last little bit, looking at the number of different situations we find ourselves in in each community, deceased people, hardship people, and we do plan on coming forward with writing off a lot of those much older debts. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. We’re on page 5-57. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a couple of quick questions. The Minister mentioned stabilization funds. I wonder if he could tell me how much is in that stabilization fund budget for 2011-12. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister McLeod.
Mr. Chairman, $640,000 this year, $250,000 next year. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, I got that $640,000. That is 2010-11 and $250,000 for 2011-12. What is the basis for allocation of those dollars?
I’m sorry, Mr. Chairman. I was having a discussion here and I missed the Member’s question.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. The Member was asking what is the basis for that allocation.
I will refer to Mr. Polakoff.
Mr. Polakoff.
Mr. Chairman, the allocation was based on looking at it on a LHO-by-LHO basis, as well as taking a look not only at what the current deficit is of the LHO but also what the specifics are that we are generating the deficit to determine whether or not there was an opportunity to work with the LHO on management or if it was a cash issue, and also recognizing that it has to be dealt with over a longer period of time and it won’t be immediate.
Thank you, Mr. Polakoff. Mr. Bromley.
Mr. Chairman, does every LHO get some support from the stabilization fund or is it just sort of those that have these specific problems?
Mr. Chairman, it is those that are in the most dire financial straits right now.
Mr. Chairman, again, it is those that are cash strapped, but there is obviously an additional part to it. Is it where there are not management problems perceived, those are the ones that would get the cash? Is that correct?
Mr. Chairman, those would be the priority ones. Yes, the Member is correct.
Thank you, Mr. Polakoff. We are on page 5-57. Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was just trying to follow that exchange that happened a moment ago. I am just trying to get a sense. A local LHO, what do they do with the revenue garnered through the rent process? I think the question I asked last week was how much on a recovery basis per LHO for rental. We have about a 76 percent average. So where does that money go that they receive? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister McLeod.
Mr. Chairman, the rent that each LHO generates goes back into the operations. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, just expanding a little further, so if there is almost 24 percent shortage here, how do they make up that recovery of that percentage?
Mr. Chairman, in some cases we will assist them, as I mentioned in my response to one of the other Member’s questions. There are some uncontrollables that we assist them with. The more money they generate, then the less assistance they would receive and the more money they receive from revenue, they would be able to put that back into their operations. That would keep them out of running a deficit situation. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, in the last five years what has the department done to... How much money has the department bailed out these LHOs? Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, we don’t have that information with us at the moment. I will get the information and pass it on to the Member and other Members if they wish to receive the same information. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, can I have that broken out by LHO, please? Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, that is doable.
Mr. Chairman, on these particular LHOs -- and I wish to, of course, thank the Minister for willing to provide that information -- does it come with an accompanying deficit elimination plan of any sort to address that 24 percent shortfall? Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, we will work with the LHOs to come up with a deficit recovery plan and there are a number of things that some of the supports that we work with the LHO. We do an analysis of their LHO operations and where they can see some savings and that. We work quite closely with the LHO, because it is not our intent to have our LHOs in a deficit situation all of the time and not being able to provide service we expect of them. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, if an LHO is in deficit, how does that reflect upon their operations? Would it affect their maintenance budget by and large? Does the Housing Corporation make up the shortfall on the maintenance budget? Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, yes they do.
Mr. Chairman, is there a departmental break-even point where statistical average bank on that... By way of example, 90 percent of rent recovery is where it provides enough money for operations and maintenance of that LHO, or is there another number targeted? More specifically, what is the target for break-even point? Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, we expect to have our LHOs to collect 90 percent of assessments. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, I think the Minister has been more than generous with his offer of information. I will take what he has offered. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. No question. We are on page 5-57, the NWT Housing Corporation, information item, local housing organizations, operations expenditure summary.
Agreed.
Okay. We are moving along to page 5-58, NWT Housing Corporation, information item, local housing organizations, grants and contributions. Mr. Hawkins.
Mr. Chairman, specific to page 5-58, I was looking at the numbers here. I was just trying to get a sense as to programming value and make sense of it. If I look at electrical power, we go in the actuals of 2009-10 budget year of $6.5 million but it drops. We will call it relatively stable for the 2010-11 to the 2011-12 year. I am just trying to get a sense of how power has gone up, everything has gone up, but I am just trying to follow why the numbers haven’t really changed much. It just seems as if they don’t fluctuate the way everyone else’s house is going up. My power bill has skyrocketed. Everyone I know who has complained about power has gone up significantly, but it just doesn’t seem like the water and power costs are reflecting what is actually happening out there. I am just trying to get a sense on how it is managed and followed. Thank you.
