Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just have a few more questions to the Minister of MACA. I know in response to some questions he had earlier when I asked whether it was a sale or a lease, and he had mentioned that it is a lease now but it initially was a sale. I’d like to ask the Minister, if it was initially a sale, how the application proceeded so far along without a survey of the land being conducted.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister responsible for Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Robert McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The sale wasn’t final until a survey was going to be done. So a survey had to be done and then the sale would have been final.
Has a survey been done of the 36,000 acres that are being disposed of by the department?
No, the survey has not been done. It is the intent of the Norman Wells Land Corporation within the next three years to have a legal survey of the land done and then at that time they will purchase the property.
I think, you know, obviously we need to learn how this happened and why it happened, because I think it’s important for communities around the Northwest Territories to understand how this works. In looking through the legislation and policies, there’s not even a requirement for the department to advise Cabinet of a decision to dispose of land, let alone Regular Members. I think that’s a hole in our policies and legislation that needs to be shored up. Even the deputy minister’s authority, I think we need to be taking a look at this. They have the authority on the size of parcels, pricing of the parcel. I’d like to ask the Minister how the price was arrived at on the lease for the 36,000 acres.
I sign off Commissioner’s lands transactions three or four times a week. We have properties all across the Northwest Territories where people are applying for Commissioner’s property. Now, is it the Member’s wish that I inform the Members, even though it’s not their particular riding, of all the transactions that take place or is there a size limit to it? If that’s his wish, then it’s something we can do. The price that was arrived at in this was in accordance with the land pricing policy of the Government of the Northwest Territories.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It wouldn’t be my belief that the Minister should be informing us on every transaction, but I think we’re moving into a new area, a new realm of how we do business and again it’s going to be a bigger issue post-devolution.
The majority of issues the Minister would sign off on are quarries, residential lots, things of that nature. When we’re talking about attractive land, three parcels of land totalling 36,000 acres, I think it’s a different ballgame. I think going forward we need to ensure that we have the legislation and policies in place that are going to let communities know what the rules of engagement are when it comes to disposal of Commissioner’s land. I’d just like to ask the Minister if we could review how we deal with large tracts of land and transactions in that regard.
I will commit to the Member that we will have a look at how land is disposed of. Again I just want to assure the Member and Members of this House that this land was all disposed of in accordance with and all the proper processes were followed. They had expressed an interest, they got a hold of us, we worked with them and a deal was worked out. Though some people may not like the decision, that’s just the way this whole thing played out and the Norman Wells Land Corporation has some development plans for the future to benefit their people and if there’s an opportunity there for us to help them, then we will.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to present a petition dealing with the matter of saving the Joe Greenland Centre. The petition contains 193 electronic signatures. Of those, 109 signatures identify themselves as resident of the Northwest Territories. The petitioners request that the Government of the Northwest Territories continue to operate the Joe Greenland Centre in Aklavik as a long-term care facility.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following two documents entitled Tourism 2015: New Directions for a Spectacular Future, February 2011, and Northwest Territories Marketing Plan 2011-2012.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I give notice that on Thursday, February 24, 2011, I will move the following motion: I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Thebacha, that, notwithstanding Rule 4, when this House adjourns on Thursday, February 24, 2011, it shall be adjourned until Monday, February 28, 2011;
And further, that any time prior to February 28, 2011, if the Speaker is satisfied, after consultation with the Executive Council and the Members of the Legislative Assembly, that the public interest requires that the House should meet at an earlier time during the adjournment, the Speaker may give notice and thereupon the House shall meet at the time stated in such notice and shall transact its business as it has been duly adjourned to that time. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.
Mr. Speaker, I give notice that on Thursday, February 24, 2011, I will move the following motion: I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Sahtu, that this Legislative Assembly strongly recommends the NWT Housing Corporation reintroduce a home maintenance and repair program for seniors. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
WHEREAS the Department of Health and Social Services plans to discontinue long-term care service as it currently exists at the Joe Greenland Centre in Aklavik;
AND WHEREAS the Joe Greenland Centre has been an integral and important part of the community, providing essential services to elder for decades;
AND WHEREAS there are currently 76 elders aged 60 and over, half of them over age 70, in Aklavik;
AND WHEREAS keeping elders in the community is critical to the social and cultural fabric of Aklavik, and central to the long-term care is resulting in elders being moved to Inuvik or elsewhere;
AND WHEREAS caring for our elders is one of the most important values in both the Gwich’in and Inuvialuit cultures;
AND WHEREAS 14 full-time and part-time jobs for local people will be lost, accounting for almost 10 percent of the community’s entire working population;
NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Nunakput, that this Legislative Assembly strongly recommends the Department of Health and Social Services reverse its decision and continue to provide long-term care service as it currently exists for elders at Joe Greenland Centre.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. To the motion. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Again, the reason I bring the motion forward is realizing that we also have to have an integrated system of care throughout the Northwest Territories and not continue to take these services out of our smaller communities and provide them elsewhere.
Mr. Speaker, for too long we have taken our children out of our communities and basically sent them somewhere else to be either educated or cared for through programs and services of the government-of-the-day that meant well. Yet, Mr. Speaker, the consequences of those decisions are long lasting in regard to the social, economic and emotional effects on individuals, communities and families.
Mr. Speaker, in this case, in regard to elder care at the Joe Greenland Centre, and more importantly, the long-term care component, which really deals with the fabric of elder day care and improving the quality of elders and seniors in communities and in these types of facilities.
Mr. Speaker, the Northwest Territories, back in the early ‘90s, had a plan in place to establish long-term care facilities in most regions in the Northwest Territories. They had a facility in Deline, Fort Resolution, Fort Simpson, Aklavik and then in early 2000 a facility was built in Tuktoyaktuk to provide these types of care facilities so that we can accommodate the elders in our home communities, but more importantly, the ones that are the most vulnerable in regard to the physical and mental disabilities that they acquire as they age.
Again, Mr. Speaker, I think it’s important that we have to find a unique way to retain these elders as long as we can in our home communities providing the essential services that they need, regardless if it’s keeping them active, keeping them fed by way of Meals on Wheels, providing the community home supports that they require and the supports that they need in regard to day-to-day activities that are required to ensure that the services are there.
Mr. Speaker, in my riding alone, as I mentioned, I have 120 elders over the age of 70. Mr. Speaker, one of the things that we’ve seen in our aging population is the demographics have shown right across Canada and here in the Northwest Territories that where we’re looking at some 10 to 15 percent today, in the next 10 to 15 years that will jump to 20 to 25 percent of the demographics of our aging population. Again, this problem is not unique just to the constituents I represent but the whole Northwest Territories. I believe that we have to find a way to basically not continue to cut programs and services.
Again, the whole area of communication in this case was definitely lacking in regard to how this was handled, regardless if it’s dealing with the community affected, the affected MLAs, and more importantly, the communities that provide this essential service in the different regions in the Northwest Territories.
Again, with that, I would like to continue to require the support for the motion, but more importantly, have the elders in our communities and in the Mackenzie Delta live out their days in comfort and not have to continue to be removed from their home communities and communities to provide the essential service that they require. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Jacobson.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Speaking to the motion today, I am in full support of my colleague Mr. Krutko for keeping the Joe Greenland Centre open. The elders in the families in the communities, it’s hard enough for us to send our loved ones out of our home communities. It just puts a strong strain on the families. Not everybody has jobs. Not everybody has vehicles to go see their family either in Inuvik or in Aklavik, but at least we know if they’re in our region we can send meat or fish or something to try to help out and take care of them.
The people themselves, when they are taking elders from your home, like Ulukhaktok sending people into Inuvik, you know, when you’re paying an $800 plane ticket one way to go see your family, it’s tough. We have to take care of the people in regard to our elders a lot better than what we’re doing by taking this out of Aklavik. I know the people in that Joe Greenland Centre take pride in what they’re doing for the community and for the region. I think if it’s possible to leave funding in there for this year and keep on seeing if we can get extraordinary funding to run that facility, I think it would be a really good start.
Long term, the people and their jobs in the community of Tuk we did get an elders facility in the community and it wasn’t filled up for a few years but now it’s full. It is being utilized by elders and the community sends people in to help them out, clean up and stuff like that, but at the end of the day we wanted this to be a facility where we don’t have to send our elders out. We have families in Tuk that we send people out into Inuvik and the Joe Greenland Centre, which we’re really thankful for. To support the cause, I guess, to take care of our elders because they took care of us in the start, and by this I think we’re failing our elders and we’re failing the community of Aklavik and the Joe Greenland Centre if this facility shuts down.
Mr. Speaker, I will support the vote and I support my colleague Mr. Krutko in trying to keep this facility open. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. To the motion. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I rise in support of my honourable colleague’s motion to maintain the facility and jobs in their community. I’m very supportive of all the many members throughout his community that took the time to sign petitions, get a hold of their MLA to highlight the issues in the media. I think that is how our consensus style government should work. I am supportive of it. I am always saddened to see regionalizing or centralizing our goods and services, particularly those that provide services to people. I hate to see it happen, but hopefully the government can listen to this motion, listen to the people and find another way of doing their work of trying to save money, which is their immediate concern but sometimes the concern of the people has to outweigh money. Mahsi cho. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. To the motion. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise in support of this motion. I realize that it is a very passionate particular issue in the community of Aklavik. Mr. Speaker, one of the issues that has been drawn out of this particular case that removing them from the community doesn’t take into consideration is the social impact the community will have as well as those people in care, the detriment offer to them losing their close ties to their community that many of them were born in, had lived their whole lives. Many of them hoped to sort of spend their final days in that particular community.
Mr. Speaker, when we talk about impacts of the community, we have to discuss, or at least not forget, the impact of loss of jobs and how difficult it is to find jobs in communities like this. Quite often we talk about trying to ensure that we get jobs out of the regions, and even headquarters here in Yellowknife sometimes, where they make sense in small communities. The Joe Greenland Centre is a practical solution to sort of the mantra of what we are trying to serve here, which is taking care of our seniors and elders. If it is a quality programming issue, then we should be discussing that. If it is a matter of does the building suit the needs of today, does that building or situation suit the needs of tomorrow, and if the answer happens to be no, then we should be evaluating that and discussing that.
Mr. Speaker, 14 full-time and part-time people need to re-evaluate their life and those are the people that are offering support in this particular case to the Joe Greenland Centre. Has the Department of Health’s consideration taken into that effect? What are we doing to those particular people and that impact created?
Mr. Speaker, again, many times we talk about how important elders are and trying to keep them in their homes and in the communities, and the fact is sending to regional centres is, I think, a step backwards. Mr. Speaker, one of the challenges we live here constantly day in and day out at the Assembly is about trying to find ways to roll out services to communities, again, where it makes sense. Mr. Speaker, this seems as if it is a rolling up of services to that community. I think the community would perceive this strictly as a slap in the face about the type of services and care they are trying to provide their community members. The Joe Greenland Centre may not be the most idyllic situation, but yet it is a true one that has compassion to the people that are there and the community feels strongly about having them there.
Lastly, Mr. Speaker, as I have sort of highlighted about the social component but about the spiritual wellness of these individuals as well as the community, uprooting your elders and sending them off somewhere is a wrong message. It is not a positive commitment that we have all made here in one form or another, that we will cherish and respect the generation before us. I think that sends a message that we are not trying hard enough.
Mr. Speaker, as I have said earlier, I will be supporting this motion, not just supporting Mr. Krutko but supporting the community of Aklavik as they strive forward to keep that commitment there. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. To the motion. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.
Mr. Speaker, in doing my research, in the Sahtu we did have a long-term care facility. It opened in 1991 and in 1993 it opened a long-term care facility. In 1991 it was a personal care facility. In 1993 it was a long-term care. In 1996 the facility closed in the Sahtu. I still today get inquiries as to that facility, the amount of training that people took, the amount of work and effort it took to have it in Deline in the Sahtu. I can only imagine what people in Aklavik are going through in terms of this facility. Ours in the Sahtu closed right down.
I also, in the same breath, want to say how excited I am to read in the 2010-11 capital estimates that the Sahtu is now in the stage of planning, designing and construction of a long-term facility. I am very happy when they get that back in the books. I want to say that the people are delighted. We are looking at facilities in the Northwest Territories. We know the price of health care in the Northwest Territories. We had a big debate on the supplementary health. We know the costs are coming up. Mr. Speaker, we also know the needs of our elders. In the Sahtu right now there are 254 elders who are 60 years and over. As I stand right here, Mr. Speaker, in this House, our elders want to attend a long-term care facility like the dementia centre in Yellowknife. They have to take money out of their own pension cheques, buy a ticket and fly down here, plus put a month’s rent in advance. That is shameful, Mr. Speaker. That is what is happening right now.
Another point is that they want to go into the Aven Manor Centre or Inuvik or Fort Simpson. They have to pay their way to get into that facility. Mind you, those facilities take pretty good care of their people, of what I hear. They look after them pretty good. It is also a blessing, because people are talking and say it gives the families a break. It is a lot of work to take care of their elders, loved ones. The beautiful week, the second week it gets tiring. We know people are saying we should have these facilities in our regions and in our homes. More respite care, more home care services, more to take care of them.
I think I have an understanding as to what people in Aklavik are going through. We went through that in Deline. They are still angry because that facility was shut down. But I am also very happy at the same time, because now we have in the capital estimate budget for 2011-12 for Sahtu to get their long-term care facility.
Mr. Speaker, I wanted to say that I hope this government here looks at the home care services in our communities, keeping them closer to home. I still have a little bit of hurt feelings when I look at the Aven Manor Centre here in Yellowknife when I go by it, because my grandmother was in there and my father was in there. Both have passed away in there and not going home to be with their people. It bothers me sometimes when we have facilities like that. If you are coming from my region and don’t have facilities, it is not a good feeling sometimes when we take the elders out of the community to live somewhere. You don’t know if they are going to come back alive or not. It is a difficult decision.
I want to say, Mr. Speaker, that I hope there is a solution that could be sought through the Aklavik dilemma in terms of looking after their elders and keeping them there. We in the Sahtu really need a facility. I hope that Mr. Krutko and the department find a solution along with a plan to keep their elders in their community. I wanted to say that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. To the motion. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The decision to change services, not shut down the Joe Greenland Centre -- just for the record, provided by the Joe Greenland Centre -- was a GNWT decision. It is a complex decision as the Joe Greenland Centre was built in 1977, more than 30 years ago when it was customary to admit seniors into care with low-level needs. Today, Mr. Speaker, seniors with low-level needs can and are able to remain at home or in elders housing and receive the care they need from home support workers. In addition, the Joe Greenland Centre does not provide care to the level necessary to meet the needs of long-term care residents. The centre was never designed, equipped or staffed to meet the complex care needs of long-term care residents who require levels 3 to 5 care.
Mr. Speaker, seniors who require level 1 and 2 care can age at home with extended family or accommodated in elders housing and be supported by their loved ones with home care support as required. What we are trying to do here, Mr. Speaker, and what we are doing will keep our elders in communities longer.
I just want to speak a little bit about what we have planned for Joe Greenland Centre programming. The Department of Health and Social Services has been working with the NWT Housing Corporation on a transition plan for the Joe Greenland Centre. The department is transitioning from full-time care programming only for the residents on the west wing to a day program, and expanded home care to support all Aklavik seniors as required. The focus on community independent living and day programming will ensure services are available for all elders in Aklavik to help them maintain wellness and independence as long as possible. The Housing Corporation and the Department of Health and Social Services will continue with the efforts to support community programs for elders in the Joe Greenland building. These programs may involve the use of the building’s common area for the elders day program and continued access to the common area, kitchen and specialized breathing equipment within the building.
The Beaufort-Delta Health and Social Services Authority will continue to operate the elders day program out of the Joe Greenland Centre. The elders day program is presently available to all elders in the community through home care enhancement plans for 2010-11. There are plans to use the common area and kitchen to provide a lunch program for elders. The health authority will consult with elders on what the day programs would best offer to meet the widest needs, including the elders lunch program.
The Beaufort-Delta authority will also ensure that 50 percent of $779,000 of current Joe Greenland Centre funding is maintained for provision of home care and supported living services in the community of Aklavik. Residents in the independent living side will continue to receive home care and weekly nurse visits provided through the authority.
There is currently only one full-time home support worker position in Aklavik. Two additional home support worker positions will be added, increasing the staffing to three home support workers for Aklavik. This will provide more capacity for Aklavik’s home support program to provide home support services to elders. These types of programs continue the independence of elders by offering needed care, support, nutritious meals and opportunities for socialization and recreation. These enhancements will support more seniors and elders to continue to live independently at home.
In addition, Mr. Speaker, Beaufort-Delta authority staff have been working with the two remaining residents and their families to determine appropriate placement. As well, the authority, with the support of the Department of Human Resources, have met with the staff and we are committed to retaining and retraining the workers. Every effort will be made to place affected staff in suitable positions.
Finally, Mr. Speaker, through the Foundation for Change, we will enhance continuing care to ensure that clients across the NWT receive consistent quality care and enter the continuum through a coordinated referral and assessment process; Northerners have access to home care when they need it, and Northerners have fair and consistent access to long-term care no matter where they live.
Lastly, Mr. Speaker, I need to say, as this motion is a recommendation to the government, Cabinet will be abstaining from the vote. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Lee. To the motion. The honourable Member for Weledeh. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the opportunity to speak after the Minister has spoken and my colleagues and before the wrap-up here. Mr. Speaker, our elderly are increasing in numbers throughout the NWT and we will be discussing these sorts of topics more and more. I think important perspectives and debate is being brought forward here by my colleagues and I thank them for that. Many of our cultures are facing challenges in retaining their traditions. The absolute strengths of our cultures reside amongst our elders and it is key to keep our elders in our communities as much as possible. To take our elders from our communities only underlines so many of our goals that government has in terms of cultural strength, passing and passing along and retention of traditional knowledge and the life experience our elders have and can speak to and share with the community residents.
The dilemma is, as posed of course, that as our society changes and the expectations rise, we are faced with a desire for standards we can’t always achieve. I think that’s been portrayed by the Minister here today. I support Health and Social Services’ efforts to provide exceptional levels of elder care in the most efficient way in regional centres, and as close to home communities as possible, and ultimately, hopefully, in home communities.
So I reluctantly, but realistically, believe their action with respect to the Joe Greenland Centre, though poorly executed, is acceptable. Therefore, I will not support this motion. However, Mr. Speaker, many of the concerns raised by Mr. Krutko and Mr. Jacobson are indeed real and important and need to be further recognized and addressed. Therefore, I will not vote against this effort and I’m happy to see them raising these points here today and commit myself to working with my colleagues to maximize ways to keep our elders in communities to the extent possible. Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. To the motion. I’ll go to the mover of the motion for some closing comments. Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you, colleagues. Mr. Speaker, again, these are troubling times in a lot of our communities and like I say, 14 jobs in the community might not sound like much, but when its 10 percent of your workforce, that’s a major impact to the communities. Again, in this case, the 14 individuals that are going to lose their jobs do have mortgages, do have children, but more importantly, their 14 jobs and the income they bring in supports something like 100 individuals in the community of Aklavik and it’s going to have a major detrimental effect to the residents and the families in Aklavik, and more importantly, the employees that will be losing their jobs. It’s one thing to say you’re going to add two more home care support workers, but again, that doesn’t replace the 14 individuals who are well qualified, who are trained and have put a lot of pride and effort into their jobs. More importantly, they’ve taken care of the elders that were under their care and responsibility.
Again, Mr. Speaker, you’re talking about taking some $700,000 in wages out of a community. The detrimental effect of that is going to be long-term and impacting not only to the individuals but the community as a whole and the territorial government in regard to its responsibilities and obligations under those mortgages and houses that individuals have acquired through the Housing Corporation.
Mr. Speaker, I think it’s important to realize that this was a publicly sponsored event which took place through the media, to the e-petitions that were filed and also there was a petition with over 200 names, which was given to the Minister of Health and Social Services in Aklavik when we had over 100 people in attendance in a public meeting, which was three and a half hours long. Again, there was a lot of emotional debate and discussions and it was very clear from those individuals making their presentations known and their voices heard, that they do have a very close connection and relationship with the Joe Greenland Centre and the effect it’s going to have on them and their families, and more importantly, the community of Aklavik. We need to find ways to work it through.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The Member is requesting a recorded vote. All those in favour of the motion, please stand.
Mr. Krutko, Mr. Menicoche, Mr. Ramsay, Mr. Hawkins, Mr. Jacobson.
All those opposed to the motion, please stand. All those abstaining, please stand.
Mr. Bromley; Mr. Abernethy; Mr. Yakeleya; Ms. Lee; Mr. Miltenberger; Mr. Roland; Mr. McLeod, Deh Cho; Mr. McLeod, Inuvik Twin Lakes; Mr. McLeod, Yellowknife South.
Results of the motion: in favour, five; opposed, zero; abstaining, nine. The motion is carried.
---Carried
Item 18, first reading of bills. Item 19, second reading of bills. Item 20, consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters: Tabled Document 4-16(5), Executive Summary of the Report of the Joint Review Panel for the Mackenzie Gas Project; Tabled Document 30-16(5), 2010 Review of Members’ Compensation and Benefits; Tabled Document 38-16(5), Supplementary Health Benefits – What We Heard; Tabled Document 62-16(5), Northwest Territories Water Stewardship Strategy; Tabled Document 75-16(5), Response to the Joint Review Panel for the Mackenzie Gas Project on the Federal and Territorial Governments’ Interim Response to “Foundation for a Sustainable Northern Future”; Tabled Document 103-16(5), GNWT Contracts Over $5,000 Report, Year Ending March 31, 2010; Tabled Document 133-16(5), NWT Main Estimates 2011-2012; Tabled Document 135-16(5), Response to the Standing Committee on Social Programs Report on the Review of the Child and Family Services Act; Bill 4, An Act to Amend the Social Assistance Act; Bill 14, An Act to Amend the Conflict of Interest Act; Bill 15, An Act to Amend the Fire Prevention Act; Bill 17, An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act; Bill 18, An Act to Repeal the Settlements Act; Bill 19, Municipal Statutes Amendment Act; Bill 20, An Act to Amend the Evidence Act; Minister’s Statement 65-16(5), Devolution Agreement-in-Principle, Impact on Land Claims and Protection of Aboriginal Rights; Minister’s Statement 88-16(5), Sessional Statement, with Mr. Bromley in the chair.
By the authority given me as Speaker by Motion 31-16(5), I hereby authorize the House to sit beyond the daily hour of adjournment to consider the business before the House.
