Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Comment received. Next on my list I have Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I also would like to talk about a similar issue in regards to energy management. I think that we have to realize that communities are probably a little ways ahead of us in a lot of this stuff and I know that the communities I represent, Tsiighetchic, Fort McPherson especially, are looking long term which they are looking at setting goals of 2025 of trying to cut their emissions down to 50 percent, and I think the communities are trying to do their part as communities in the Arctic that can show the rest of the world that we are doing our part when it comes to climate change and reducing our usage of fossil fuels and looking at alternative types of energy. One of the areas that they are looking at is the area of biomass residual heat and also trying to find alternative ways of generating not only power but also of generating heat in communities. I think that we have to work in conjunction with those communities and I know that there has been some work going on in the communities that I represent where they have held workshops and whatnot. Again, I think that because of the interest of the communities in the Arctic and the fact that we are seeing in regards to climate change and not being proactive for them, sends a message that we are not really showing the rest of the world we are trying to set the example for the rest of them. So realizing we are impacted by what other people are doing but also by showing that we can do our part, too, by basically reducing our usage of fossil fuels. I would just like to know exactly, I know you mentioned that you are looking at going into the Sahtu communities, but again, I think that we have to ensure that we are working in conjunction with them, because in your presentation it seemed that the only group that you mentioned is working in partnership with the Arctic Energy Alliance, but I think that you also have to work in partnership with the organizations and community groups that basically are already working in conjunction with what they are looking at. In Fort McPherson, for instance, they are already looking at using chippers, and basically chipping wood and using woodchips as the means of heating buildings in the communities. I think that that is the type of stuff that we realistically have to work with, and support them and not to continue to compete against them. If anything, we have to work in relation. I would just like to know, what are we doing as a government to embrace those communities and those organizations that are trying to do their part to put ourselves on the world stage showing that we are doing our part to reduce our dependency on greenhouse gases.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.
I appreciate the Member’s comments. The Arctic Energy Alliance is a delivery agent to assist with carrying out a lot of the priorities and work as it pertains to energy efficiencies and greenhouse gas reductions. We have, of course, worked closely with communities as they have developed their own energy plans and we are working with them all on an individual basis, recognizing that one size doesn’t fit all. For example, looking at wind in Nunakput. But I will ask, Mr. Chairman, the deputy to speak specifically to some of the things that are going on in the Beaufort-Delta area. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Bohnet.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We have had a couple of workshops with the folks in the Gwich’in and in particular we have established some really good working relationships with the Aboriginal governments in the Gwich’in Settlement Area. Some of the things we have underway, we have a study and are working with the community of Fort McPherson, exploring the potential for some residual heat. We are also looking at developing, we are looking at a pilot project with the community, as far as the Willow Flats that we are dealing with the community of Fort McPherson. In fact, we have also felt it was necessary and we bought a wood chipper for the community, and we are doing a number of these initiatives with some of the smaller communities to start to get them interested in biomass, what it could be used for and those types of things. I am also meeting with all the Gwich’in chiefs this Thursday to further the Biomass Strategy for the Gwich’in Settlement Area. They want to work together and we encourage that. We have had staff in their communities a number of times and will continue to do so. We have established a good working relationship with the Aboriginal governments in the Gwich’in Settlement Area. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. Bohnet. Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to thank the deputy for that. Again, it shows that by working together we can accomplish a lot, more importantly to ensure that we have the means of doing it.
Also in Fort McPherson, we already have basically residual heat system, and again the community, not only the tribal council but the hamlet of Fort McPherson, also very much want to get involved, because they realize that what they do to reduce their energy footprint, more importantly in regards to their energy use, it will save them money in the long run and they can put money back into the communities for programs and services, but also looking at alternative ways of using that energy, because it is a high cost item for operation and maintenance of municipal government. Again, they are looking at biomass and residual heat to heat their facilities. They are looking at replacing either the garages or even how do they cut down on the cost of heating water in the water treatment plant, things like that. I think that we have to work with not only the Aboriginal governments but the community governments and work in conjunction with the community plan that, basically, groups are developing and also access not only our dollars but gas tax money and other resources that are out there. Again, we have to be conscious of these activities out there, but again, I think that we should basically continue on with that working relationship, but again, at the end of the day it all comes down to money and I know that we just went through a supplemental review in which a lot of dollars have been lapsed because the activities haven’t really moved anywhere. Great ideas, but again, it is to re-establish, to re-invest those dollars to the groups that are ready and work with them to basically implement their ideas, but more importantly, start implementing some of these activities in the communities and the regions and move on these programs. I’d just like to know where do we see the additional capital dollars coming from in light of your expenditure amount. I notice it’s been reduced by almost $900,000 in regard to your energy management expenditure. I’d just like to know where are the capital dollars going to come from to implement these ideas.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This year the money that we’ve committed is about $17 million across the various energy initiatives. I think there’s one more year left after that. We’re looking at partnerships, of course, and the 17th Legislative Assembly will have to determine their ongoing commitment to this area and the kind of money that’s going to be available to put into it. In some of the cases, as we pointed out with our review of the supplementary appropriation, there have been some deferrals because work wasn’t ready and when the work is ready, the funds will be made available, in some cases. We’re going to have to look at all these different areas to make sure we’ve put the dollars we have to the best use and wherever possible try to leverage our dollars to access others. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, again, I think it’s important that we do identify climate change and impacts that we’re seeing. I think one of the most obvious impacts that we can see is the erosion that we’re seeing with the melting permafrost and the slumping that’s happening throughout the tundra in regard to the coastline erosion and erosion in our mountain valleys, and more importantly, creeks that are basically filling up with mud from slumping and sliding. I think that we have to realize that it’s eventually going to continue to grow. I think that’s one area that we can really show the rest of the world how climate change is affecting us, because it’s happening right in front of us. You can actually see how large an area these slumps are turning into and they’re huge.
I had an opportunity to go to a mining conference here in Yellowknife and you had a presenter from your office who was presenting a study that they did just outside of Fort McPherson along the Dempster Highway, and it was amazing how fast just this summer the erosion that took place in a matter of a couple of months and the amount of precipitation that we’ve had by way of rain and how heavy the rains are becoming, which is speeding up the process of melting permafrost, but more importantly, the affect it’s having not only on the land but it’s also affecting the water, it’s affecting the fish habitat, it’s affecting the downstream affects, and also it’s affecting the temperature of the water in the river systems and lakes, and more importantly, even eventually it’s going to be in the ocean. I think that we have to be realistic here, that whatever’s happening out there will have a detrimental effect to all of us regardless if it’s the human species or animal species or bird species, because we are going to be affected one way or the other.
Again, I’d just like to know what are we doing to basically put out more video coverage or promote the impacts that we’re seeing nationally and around the world so that the rest of the world can realize that what’s happening is not simply a slogan but it’s reality. Thank you.
As the Member pointed out, the ENR staff was presenting the results of some of the studies that were being done in the mountains in his constituency. We have, through our research agenda, we’ve laid out this whole area as an area that requires study, and there are world-class experts like Dr. Pomeroy from the University of Saskatoon that have spent 30 years up here working and there’s enormous interest from the scientific community to find out what’s happening for all the reasons the Member has mentioned, as well as just some of the incredible releases of carbon and methane that may result with the melting. As the government, as the Member well knows, over the last number of years we’ve been dealing with just the permafrost issues just with piles alone and our roads, the issue or the erosion that you talk about. The North is very clearly moving at a rate of change that is many times faster than the rest of the world, so there is an enormous amount of attention here, as well, and we’re still feeling some of the residual attention from the International Polar Year, as well.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. And that’s the University of Saskatchewan, I believe, in Saskatoon. Next, I have on my list Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a question here related to the money in the budget for geothermal. At the time of business plans there was a statement… I’ll back up. The Minister is well aware that the City of Yellowknife is putting intensive efforts into determining the feasibility and possibility to go forward on a geothermal project there in Yellowknife. I think the Minister probably should also know that the federal government has promised almost $15 million or up to $15 million based on whether or not the City is willing to sort of put in the other necessary funds. My question to the Minister at this point is: is this government supportive of the project that the City of Yellowknife is undertaking and what contribution has this government made in terms of geothermal to the City of Yellowknife project? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ve met with the mayor and his people about this project along with ENR staff. We’ve provided some modest assistance doing some preplanning. We, of course, are looking at, if this goes ahead, the impact that it would have in terms of savings to energy costs and the various government buildings that are there, but at this point, there has been no, that I’m aware of, no specific monetary ask from the City of Yellowknife. They’re aware of our limitations, which we discussed with Mayor Van Tighem. While we are supportive, that has been more in the moral support kind of category as opposed to fiscal support. Thank you.
Thanks to the Minister. I guess my question then is should there be a formal request to this government for funding? Would the Minister consider it as seriously as possible within the parameters of our current fiscal situation? I guess I’m asking will there be some financial support for this project at some point in time if the City puts forward an ask? Thank you.
When there are requests we always make every effort to accommodate within the fiscal realities that are before us. Should there be a specific request from the City of Yellowknife, then we would give it fair and due consideration.
Thank you, Minister. Next on my list I have Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to ask the Minister, they had a biomass report, sorry, wood pellet district heating study done in the Territories, October 2010, four months ago, by the Arctic Energy Alliance. In the budget here there’s $1.3 million for the biomass energy, page 13-18. The report states what they found to be deficient, dare I say, in terms of supporting district heating in communities that would be beneficial. I want to ask the Minister are there plans to go forward with this report and look at communities such as Gameti, Whati, Tulita, Fort Good Hope and Tuktoyaktuk to look at plans to go forward on a district heating initiative for those communities that what the report says what they learned for the communities that are off the all-season road highway system.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The intention at this still preliminary stage of the road of all this alternative energy money and the Biomass Strategy is to work with communities and regions to find ways to put in infrastructure that will allow the use of biomass and in where it makes sense and their technology is there, if there is a district heating, district power kind of opportunity that is there, we are interested in that as well. The Member has to keep in mind what we are talking about here. The 16th Assembly has started the process that is going to stretch out before us I would suggest for the next 10 years or so as we make a transition in terms of the type of energy infrastructure we have and what we want to change to. This money is getting us started to work with communities to do that initial planning, identify where we can do pilots, what type of pilots, recognizing that each region and each community will have a unique energy plan in many cases. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, the Minister is certainly correct. Also in the report it states warrant further investigations to the communities that are listed out. Certainly they also have communities listed for all-weather road, communities that would benefit from a district heating system. These are the communities that are favourable for economic potential for biomass initiatives. My point, Mr. Chairman, is that the communities that are on the winter road resupply that I listed off have not gotten lost in the system. Mr. Minister has indicated that there are already plans in place. Again, I am going to state clearly that some of these other regions and communities that are receiving a lot of attention are communities in our Sahtu have a high cost of living, fuel prices, transportation and other factors. We certainly can use some support to start bringing down the cost of living and provide some opportunities. I take it that the Minister is going to hear some good things once they have their meetings in the Sahtu communities and you can look at the number of initiatives that could happen there and have the new government or Assembly look at making it a priority to put some of the initiatives in place. You know the cost of doing business in the Sahtu is very high. I am hoping that we would see some of these initiatives sooner than later. That is my point. I just want to make that resonate with the department while he has the senior officials here with us. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the Member’s comments and his request and his intent to make us aware of this. As the deputy indicated, there are going to be meetings in the Sahtu communities before the end of this fiscal year. Within the next five weeks, there is going to be work done and the intent is, like we are doing across the North, to come up with the regional plans and community plans and then we can start the planning process and identify the resources that we are going to need to try to move forward on as many of these initiatives as possible. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Committee, we are on page 13-17. Ms. Bisaro.
Mr. Chairman, I wanted to ask some questions here related to waste sites and the management of them and cleaning up of them and responsibility for them. With the AIP having been signed, I believe there is a section in there which deals with environmental liability and cleanup of waste sites, mine sites and so on. I would like to know from the Minister if he could explain the department’s responsibility in terms of waste sites and the impact the AIP will have on that responsibility. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Miltenberger.
Mr. Chairman, there are some like Giant Mine where there is a separate agreement that will be separate from the agreement-in-principle where we have a signed arrangement with the federal government and ourselves, and then I will ask the deputy to speak about our responsibility on Commissioner’s land and some of the other waste site issues. Thank you.
Mr. Bohnet.
Mr. Chairman, on Crown land, the federal government has responsibility for waste sites, contaminated sites and such. On Commissioner’s land, the Government of the Northwest Territories for the major extent has the responsibility on Commissioner’s land. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. Bohnet. Ms. Bisaro.
Mr. Chairman, if there is a development on Commissioner’s land, is the deputy minister saying that it is now a GNWT responsibility to clean it up either pre or post devolution? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Miltenberger.
Mr. Chairman, as we negotiate the devolution agreement, there is going to be an identification of sites and there is going to be milestone times. There are going to be ones that we will be responsible for. There are going to be older ones existing, ones on Crown land that the federal government will continue to have responsibility for. There will be a going forward date from which time that once the agreement is signed that we will be responsible for new ones. Thank you.
I have two further questions. Should a site be missed in the analysis and the identification of all the sites within our Territory, should a particular site be missed and it be discovered some time after devolution, whose responsibility would it then be? I am assuming that a site that was the responsibility of the federal government when it was initially developed, it is missed in the census of sites, whose responsibility is it after devolution to clean that up? I will start with that. Thanks.
Mr. Chairman, given the fact that we have just signed the agreement-in-principle and we are just sort of organizing ourselves in our jurisdictions to start the negotiations, that is an issue that will have to be resolved. I would anticipate there would be possibly some type of period of time to allow for those types of loose ends or oversights. At this point, I am not in a position to speak specifically what the final detail will be on that very specific issue that the Member has raised. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, thanks to the Minister for that. It is good to hear that it is going to be considered. I hope that doesn’t fall off the table, because it is entirely possible we will discover sites long after we have signed a devolution agreement.
My last question has to do with security. We have recently amended the Commissioner’s Land Act to require security for developments. Can the Minister comment on the likelihood in the future that we will have a development without asking for that kind of security and without asking a company to put up security for cleanup costs at the end of the life of the project? Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, that strikes me as what I would call a hypothetical question of the highest category. Can I anticipate when we would not ask for security or some type of bond I believe the Member has asked? I am here to say it would be very expected of me to say whether I could or not. I would anticipate that we are going to be making sure for every development that we protect the interests of the people of the Northwest Territories. We have all the protections that the system allows us to do that. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, thanks to the Minister. That is the answer that I wanted. I wasn’t expecting details, but I am really glad to know it is the position of the Minister and presumably this government that, yes, we are going to do all we can to protect our residents and our Territory from harmful effects and financial costs, too, in terms of cleaning up the environment. That is just a comment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Committee, once again, we’re on page 13-17, Environment and Natural Resources, activity summary, environment, operations expenditures summary, $8.662 million. Agreed?
Agreed.
Moving on, page 13-18, Environment and Natural Resources, activity summary, environment, grants and contributions, contributions, $4.184 million. Agreed?
Agreed.
Committee, page 13-19, Environment and Natural Resources, information item, environment, active positions. Agreed?
Agreed.
Page 13-21, Environment and Natural Resources, activity summary, forest management, operations expenditures summary, $28.439 million.
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Moving on, page 13-22, Environment and Natural Resources, activity summary, forest management, grants and contributions, grants, total grants, $100,000. Agreed?
Agreed.
Sorry; Mr. Yakeleya.
