Minister of Health.
Mr. Tolley.
For FMBS.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On the children in care, projected for 2009-2010, we have, I guess there is a minimum and a maximum number that we are depending on at any one time, but the average is about 35 children in care. The total number of months is about 501 months. Total expenditures projected for 2009-2010 would be a little over $4.6 million. On the adults side, projected for 2009-2010, we have 46 adults in care, 2009-2010 projected expenditures of just over $7 million. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
So these are fairly large numbers. I don’t know how they compare to previous years, however, the Minister has indicated that the demand for southern referrals and placements is increasing and I don’t know what is contributing to that. He said there are emerging issues, but certainly in terms of the sustainability of the support that this requires, it would be good if we knew what those emerging issues are so that we could perhaps do something to kind of put prevention or stem the increase in some way, because I’m not sure if this number in this group of people who are in need of these specialized services, I’m not sure this is sustainable over a long period of time if this continues to grow. So what were those emerging issues that the Minister referred to? Thank you.
Minister of Health and Social Services.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For the children, the numbers have stayed quite stable since 2004-05. The average number of children in care back then was 39, the next year it was 39, and the year after, 36. We are projecting for 2009-10, 35. So those numbers have stayed the same. The number of adult placements has increased over the last number of years, but it was 27 in 2004-05, then 29 the year after, 35 in 2006-07, the year after, and then 48 in 2007-08, 51 in 2008-09, and 46 is projected.
Mr. Chairman, the people that are placed in these facilities are usually from either severe disability and who require care that we cannot provide in the North, or mental health disorders and other behavioural issues. I can assure the Member that we don’t know exactly why the numbers are increasing, but much of the cost has to do with not so much the number but the cost of care, because lots of these institutional settings have increased their rates. Also, we do review every file and, in fact, when we opened the Hay River assisted living facility we reviewed every file that was down south to see if we could repatriate them. We have repatriated some of them and since then we have been able to avoid placing adults down south because we were able to direct them to Hay River.
This is something that is under close scrutiny in the department to make sure that we don’t use out-of-NWT placements unless we absolutely have to. Thank you.
I didn’t really hear any answer. I guess the Minister said she doesn’t know why the number of placements required, what’s kind of contributing to that need for specialized services in southern Canada. I’m glad to hear that the department is keeping a close eye on that, not that we want to deny or deprive anybody of specialized services if that’s what they need, but when you look at the cost of care and these costs can be anywhere from $250,000 to $450,000 per client per year, and you look at that over the course of a person’s lifetime as an adult, if there’s no change in their conditions, I guess I just, again, say that we need to, as a government, look at some of the contributing factors to people’s condition that they require this care. Because this is a lot of resources that are absorbed by this and, like I said, not that we want to deny or deprive anyone of specialized care, but I’m looking at it from how is this sustainable in view of all the other demands on our financial resources. That’s just more of a comment. Thank you.
More of a comment. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Once again, I appreciate the Member’s comments. Her observations, I think, are accurate, as well, in terms of the ongoing health care costs, and the issue of sustainability is a huge challenge for every jurisdiction. Thank you.
We’re under community health programs, not previously authorized, $2.283 million.
Agreed.
Total department, not previously authorized, $8.288 million.
Agreed.
Moving on to Department of Justice, operations expenditure, legal aid services, not previously authorized, $100,000.
Agreed.
Court services, not previously authorized, $107,000.
Agreed.
Community justice and corrections, not previously authorized, $342,000.
Agreed.
Total department, not previously authorized, $549,000.
Agreed.
Department of Education, Culture and Employment, operations expenditures, education and culture, not previously authorized, $100,000.
Agreed.
Income security, not previously authorized, $1.560 million.
Agreed.
Total department, not previously authorized, $1.660 million.
Agreed.
Transportation, operations expenditures, airports, not previously authorized, $253,000.
Agreed.
Highways, not previously authorized, $309,000.
Agreed.
Marine, not previously authorized, $413,000.
Agreed.
Road licensing and safety, not previously authorized, $18,000.
Agreed.
Total department, not previously authorized, $993,000. Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a question that applies to all of these increases. The briefing note explains that there was no increase for fuel in this current year’s budget for all of these departments. My question to the Minister, I guess, is that it sounds as though we have adjusted our amounts going forward, future years, sounds as though we are planning to budget enough dollars to cover what we expect to incur in fuel costs. I guess my question would be: is that correct? Are we now stabilized going forward with this additional funding for fuel? Have we added enough money in our 2010-11 budget so that we’re not going to run into this problem in future years? I’ve raised this issue a number of times in regard to fuel increases. It seems that we are woefully inadequate in projecting and budgeting our costs for fuel. The bottom line is are we stabilizing as we go forward? Thank you.
Deputy Minister Melhorn.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Member is correct; we have included increased funding in 2010-11 to account for expected fuel costs. The estimates are based on assumption of about $70 per barrel oil, and if fuel costs remain in that range, then that would be sufficient. If fuel costs differ from that significantly, if prices increase significantly, then that may change.
Department of Transportation, operations expenditures, total department, not previously authorized, $993,000.
Agreed.
Does the committee agree that we’ve concluded Tabled Document 78-16(4), Supplementary Appropriation (Operations Expenditures) No. 3, 2009-2010?
Agreed.
Mrs. Groenewegen.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that consideration of Tabled Document 78-16(4), Supplementary Appropriation (Operations Expenditures) No. 3, 2009-2010, be now concluded, and that Tabled Document 78-16(4) be reported and recommended as ready for further consideration in formal session through the form of an appropriation bill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The motion is order. The motion is being circulated. To the motion.
Question.
Question is being called.
---Carried
Next I believe we agreed to Tabled Document 84-16(4), Supplementary Appropriation (Infrastructure Expenditures) No. 1, 2010-2011. Minister of Finance, do you have some opening comments?
