Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I move that consideration of Tabled Document 62-16(4), NWT Main Estimates, 2010-2011, be now concluded, and that Tabled Document 62-16(4) be reported and recommended as ready for further consideration in formal session through the form of an appropriation bill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
The motion is in order. The motion is being distributed. To the motion.
Question.
Question has been called.
---Carried
I believe the next item we agreed to move to is Supplementary Appropriation No. 3, Tabled Document 78-16(4), Supplementary Appropriation No. 3, 2009-2010. Agreed?
Agreed.
Mr. Minister, do you have any comments in regard to the supp? Minister Miltenberger.
Yes, Mr. Chairman. I am pleased to present Supplementary Appropriation No. 3, 2009-2010 (Operations Expenditures). This document outlines an increase of $13.326 million in operations expenditures for the 2009-2010 fiscal year.
The major items in this supplementary request include:
A total of $8.3 million for the Department of Health and Social Services for increased costs primarily associated with the adults and children receiving care outside the Northwest Territories, the provision of supplementary health benefits, the vaccination program implemented by the department in response to the H1N1 pandemic, the purchase of blood products from Canadian Blood Services and the provision of services to non-NWT residents. The costs being incurred for non-NWT residents will be recovered from the home province or territory of the patient.
$1.6 million for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment for the increased costs associated with the higher utilization of income support programs.
$1.4 million for the Department of Human Resources for increased costs being incurred for medical travel assistance provided to GNWT employees and increased dental premiums.
Also included in this supplementary request is funding for a $50,000 donation from the GNWT to the Canadian Red Cross to contribute to the aid relief efforts in Haiti.
I am prepared to review the details of the supplementary appropriation document, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
At this time I’d like to ask the Minister if he’ll be bringing in witnesses.
Yes, Mr. Chairman.
Does committee agree if the Minister brings in his witnesses?
Agreed.
Agreed. Sergeant-at-Arms, escort the witness in.
For the record, Mr. Minister, can you introduce your witnesses?
Mr. Chairman, Margaret Melhorn, deputy minister of Finance; Charles Tolley, the director of the Management Board Secretariat.
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Welcome, witnesses. If we can turn to page 3, Executive, operations expenditures, Minister’s office, not previously authorized, $50,000. Agreed?
Agreed.
Total department, not previously authorized, $50,000. Agreed?
Agreed.
Page 4, Human Resources, operations expenditures, employee services, not previously authorized, $1.394 million. Ms. Bisaro.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. A question here. I guess I’m just a little bit surprised that we didn’t anticipate these increased costs. We’re almost $1.4 million in increased costs for benefit payments basically on behalf of our employees. Could I get an explanation from the Minister as to why we couldn’t foresee these increased costs? Thank you.
Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As the Member will recognize, we have an aging workforce. We have a growing number of employees and the other one that we don’t have a control over is the growing number of referrals that are requiring medical travel. Thank you.
Certainly those explanations make sense, but I guess if we know those things, why are we not budgeting for increased costs at the time that we put the original budget on the floor? Thank you.
The two that are related, most directly related, are the aging workforce and the growing number of referrals. While we know we have an aging workforce, it’s hard to anticipate the amount of referrals. We tend to base our budget numbers on the previous year’s expenditures and the other thing as we go from budget year to budget year the number of employees we try to budget are based on actuals and not projections. Thank you.
The Minister just leads me into sort of my next thought, my next question. I mean, why do we budget on last year’s numbers if we know that we’re going to have demographics that are going to likely cause us to have an increase? So it’s kind of a rhetorical question, I’ve said this before; I have great difficulty in the fact that we establish our original budgets based on numbers which we expect to change and then come back three or four times during the year and say, oh, gee whiz, we need more money. So more of a comment than anything, Mr. Chair.
Minister, did you want to respond to the comment?
I just thank the Member for her comments and her rhetorical question.
Okay, we’re on page 4, Human Resources, operations expenditures, employee services, not previously authorized, $1.394 million. Agreed?
Agreed.
Total department, not previously authorized, $1.394 million. Agreed?
Agreed.
Page 5, Municipal and Community Affairs, operations expenditures, regional operations, not previously authorized, $392,000. Agreed?
Agreed.
Total department, not previously authorized, $392,000. Agreed?
Agreed.
Moving on, Health and Social Services, operations expenditures, program delivery support, not previously authorized, $1.136 million. Mrs. Groenewegen.
I think maybe my question is on something else, it’s not that number I’m questioning.
Okay. Health and Social Services, operations expenditures, program delivery support, not previously authorized, $1.136 million. Agreed?
Agreed.
Health services programs, not previously authorized, $4.269 million. Agreed? Mr. Bromley.
Mr. Chair, the payments for contribution funding of the Hay River Health and Social Services Authority for increased costs associated with the pension plan and so on, it’s been raised before, I think we’ve dealt with this before. Has the department done an analysis of whether it would be indeed economic to bring these employees into the fold and enjoy some reasonable payback and reduced costs over the longer term? Some of the figures I’ve heard, which were unconfirmed figures, suggested that, yeah, this might be a six or eight-year payback, after which costs would be reduced. So I guess I’m looking or have we done that analysis? Goodness knows we keep dealing with this every year it seems to come up on a supp. I’m not sure about that either, but again, where are we at on that? Thank you.
Deputy Minister Melhorn.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The cost estimates that we have now, and they are estimates only and they are ranges, because there are a number of unknowns involved. It would be about $2.5 million to $4.5 million we estimate, associated with winding up the existing pension plan, and between $1 million and $10 million associated with transferring employees to the Government of the Northwest Territories. The very wide range is due to the fact that employees have a number of options they could select with respect to their pension arrangement. They can choose the option that is most beneficial to them, but unless you know which option is chosen, you can’t specifically cost it.
I would presume with that information that there are details to it and there must be opportunities over time narrowing down those options, putting a strategy together to do that on the lower end of the cost range. Are we looking at that, Mr. Chairman, putting that together? Thank you.
Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Given the knowledge of the figures, the last serious effort to this was back in 2003-2004. Back then, the costs even then were considered excessive, given the money that was available, and have only increased since then. So we haven’t pursued this as an active initiative as of late. Thank you.
I wonder if the Minister could tell me how this situation developed and is it likely to continue to grow, and any chance that it would spread elsewhere as a virus. Thank you.
In regards to bargaining units, this is the one bargaining unit outside the UNW bargaining unit that is currently there for the remainder of employees, plus the NWTTA. Outside of that are the LHOs, which are a separate issue, but the Hay River Health Centre bargaining unit is the only one that is in existence. Thank you.
I guess I don’t have enough information to suggest a strategy to the Minister, other than I hope he will look at it and see if there is a long-term plan to resolve it. Thank you.
