Thank you. Minister.
For that detail, I will turn to Ms. Macdonald.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We've been working with the federal government since November, and they have told us that we can expect to receive our agreement within the next few weeks. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Ms. Macdonald. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I'm wondering: if this was deleted, could the funding be brought back through in a supplementary appropriation once the agreement is signed? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
I don't deal in hypothetical situations, Mr. Chair. If it was deleted from the budget, then we would have to see what we do. I know how much committee does not like the fact that we're coming back for supplementary appropriations, so it would be a difficult opportunity if we had to go through the supplementary process. Again, I can't deal with hypothetical situations. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I don't think I need to delay this any longer. I move that $303,000 be deleted from the activity corporate management under the Department of Lands for grants, contributions, and transfers related to the Northwest Territories Surface Rights Board. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. The motion is on the floor, and it has been distributed. The motion is in order. To the motion.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. It's not often that we have to deal with motions in budgets in Committee of the Whole. Look, as I said earlier, we don't have the funding for this. This shouldn't come as a surprise to the Minister. I raised this in January with the Minister that, if the funding had not been secured by the time this came to the floor, I would bring it forward, so it doesn't come as a surprise to the Minister. I'm not saying anything against our staff who have probably been working hard, trying to get the federal government to pay some attention to us, but the fact is: we don't have the money to do this. I think it could easily be brought through in a supplementary appropriation afterwards.
More importantly, this is a board, too, that has been around for eight years, has not dealt with one dispute, and I think is based on some legislation that was basically forced on us by the federal government in the past and does not meet expectations of co-management regime. Even some of the principles that we've passed in the new Mineral Resources Act in terms of making sure that there's some reasonable limits put on the way that mining is conducted in the Northwest Territories. For a whole variety of reasons, I just don't see the need for this board. It's not doing any work. We don't have the money in place, and I would urge my colleagues to agree with me that this can be removed. Then if the Minister can find the money somewhere else, he can bring it back through a supplementary appropriation. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. To the motion? MLA for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. There are a couple of questions to be answered here: one, whether we need a Surface Rights Board. I think there's a bit of disagreement about that. I think that there probably is some need to make sure that the claims have an ultimate board. Whether the legislation that the GNWT passed is accomplishing that, there is a bit of a debate there. As the Member for Frame Lake said, there are other bodies that could fulfill that function. The second question is whether a board that has never heard an appeal, and likely never will, needs $303,000 a year to operate. It kind of seems like one of those ridiculous government things of, whether we or the feds are paying for it, that we've spent likely a couple million dollars on a board that's never done anything. The third question is: if we do need the board and they need $300,000, who should pay for it? I think clearly, given that the intention of this board is to uphold and implement the land claims, that is a federal responsibility to pay for it.
I heard the Minister of Lands say that we don't like supplementary appropriations. If it comes back with a five-year federal funding agreement, then no one's going to complain about that. I'm inclined to vote to remove this until the Minister can come back with some confirmation that the feds are paying for it. If the feds aren't paying for it, then I think there's a really hard look that they probably don't need $300,000 a year to operate. I will be voting in favour of removing this money. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. To the motion?
Question.
Question has been called. All those in favour of the motion? All those opposed? Abstentions? The motion is defeated.
---Defeated
Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. If the Chair will indulge me just for a second, I'd like to just ask about the revenue summary, if that's okay? I know we did agree to skip the opening ones. I just wanted to know how accurate, and you might want to start the clock for me, too. How accurate is that estimation for the quarry revenues? I do understand that the Minister of Finance has indicated that you're not sort of zeroing out your budgets and such. I'm wondering with the downturn, if we're not going to see as much construction projects this year, is it really realistic that we're going to bring in $100,000 in royalties for the quarries? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member, and I will allow you the one question on that section. Thank you. Minister.
Thank you. For that detail, I will turn to the deputy minister. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Deputy Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. When we are determining or estimating revenues, we have looked at previous years and the patterns in previous years to try to determine what makes sense. As everyone can appreciate, the last year has been very unusual, and we expect the coming year to be somewhat unusual. It is an estimate, and there may be some considerable variance there. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Deputy Minister. Member.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes. When I look at the next line, which is the leases, which is at $2.8 million, this is just a drop in the bucket compared to that. I think my next question, actually, is in the next section, so I will stop there. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can I have an update on where we're at with developing a process guide for the transfer of land within municipal boundaries? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. I will start, and with your permission, I will turn to the deputy minister. With the City of Yellowknife, we have been in meetings. I think our next meeting is March 2nd, I believe, that we're meeting with them to talk about it. There is a process that we feel we're close to. We've provided it in writing. We've asked for their feedback. We've also reached out to the NWTAC to give it to them because we're not just looking at Yellowknife. We're looking at across the Northwest Territories. We're trying to develop the process, and if I've missed anything, with your permission, I'll ask the deputy minister. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Deputy Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think the Minister hit on pretty much everything. However, just to elaborate a little bit, we are taking almost two tracks at the same time. The process guide with the City of Yellowknife is being used to help us kind of maybe take a step back to make more general process guide that we can share with other communities more broadly, and that is our intention. We're working with Municipal and Community Affairs to make sure that that more general process guide meets the needs, and our intention would be to walk through that with members of the Association of Communities, probably before the end of, we hope before the end of the fiscal year. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Deputy Minister. Member.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm looking to have some understanding of: if we accomplish all this work and a municipality has control of all the land within the municipal boundaries in fee simple, what role does the Department of Lands then have in regards to municipal activities and their land? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
For that detail, I'll turn to the Deputy Minister. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Deputy Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll reference the Public Land Act. That's our primary piece of legislation and as the title says, public land. Our mandate derives from supporting good, strong management of public land. When land is turned over to a municipality or to others, it becomes private land, and our role is greatly diminished to almost non-existent in relation to that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Deputy Minister. Member.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am happy to hear that. I think one of the frustrations, municipalities have experienced and why they're asking for this is that they often get confused of where Lands authorities starts and Municipal and Community Affairs authorities ends. I recognize that community plans will still have to continue to exist, and MACA will approve them. I have no issue of that. I think the frustration in the past has been MACA pointing to Lands and then Lands pointing to MACA. In regards to the City of Yellowknife, can I get an update of -- I understand we are working on getting a process guide, but the actual transfer of land has many steps. The surveying and actually getting it transferred over. Do we have an expectation of when that will be complete? When we'll actually see the bulk land transfer done? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. When we're looking at this bulk land transfer, we are trying to do it well-played out and well-plotted. We don't want to just say, "Here you go," and it's done. We want to make sure that we do it successfully. We want to make sure we help the municipality, which is the City of Yellowknife, be prepared to do things. We are willing to start out with small parcels of land and move towards getting the large bulk land transfer, but again, it comes down to when the City of Yellowknife, when we go through it and negotiate, when they are ready to take over the bulk land transfer. It's going to take us some time. I cannot put a time frame to it. When they come to us and say, "Yes, we're ready to go," then we would go into the next step and get going on that, but we need to work with them. That's why we have that meeting on March 2nd. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Any further questions? No further questions. Please turn to page 311. Lands, corporate management, operations expenditure summary, 2021-2022 Main Estimates, $3,592,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. Operations beginning on page 314 with information item on 316. Questions? Member.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm just wondering if the department can tell us around equity leases, for those that are paid and are in good standing, when are they going to be able to get the title? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you very much. If they're in good standing, we have set out a process. That information has been sent out to the individuals explaining the process as we move forward. The time frame, we are hoping to have it done as quickly as possible, but for more clarity, with your permission, I will ask the deputy minister to provide more information. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Deputy Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Currently, there are 14 leases in the fee simple title administrative process. One is transferred. In January, an additional 17 equity lessees submitted an application for fee simple title. There's a total of 218 that have been identified for transfer under this project, and they have been coming in in bits and pieces, so to speak, depending on the readiness of the individuals, the lessees. We are obviously interested in trying to support the lessees to make these transfers as expeditiously as possible. We will continue to work with them to do that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Deputy Minister. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am just looking at the active positions for operations. I have noted that the department has decreased by six positions over the year and, notably, four of them in regional offices, which is concerning given our mandate of increasing employment outside of headquarters. Could the Minister speak a little bit to the loss of those positions? Thank you.
