Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Those six positions were our equity lease positions that were sunsetted. Those positions were removed from our budget. However, just so the Members are aware, none of the people that had those positions lost any jobs. We were able to find positions within our organization to keep them at work. It was in equity leases, and it was just, like I said, sunsetted. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think the Minister said that it was within his own department that those people were reallocated, but is there any move to move some of these other positions out of headquarters or to get more positions into regional offices? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. Right now, we haven't looked at that. To be honest, we have a number of projects on the go that we have developed teams. Whether it's regional or headquarters that are working on teams, we need to get that job done, and then we will look if there is that opportunity. Right now, we are not looking at it. We just need to get the work done that we have committed to do in this 19th Assembly. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. When I look at the item for program management and administration under regional operations, there is an increase of $300,000, over $300,000. Could the Minister maybe explain why that's increasing? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. Basically, that there is from our unauthorized occupancy that we are dealing with. That's the money that we are doing. For clarity, I will turn to the deputy minister. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Deputy Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Those additional funds are largely for contract services to perform removals of unauthorized occupants. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Deputy Minister. Member.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Not to wade into a super controversial area right now, but could the Minister or the department explain: do they anticipate an escalation in this situation? I'm starting to see in social media, et cetera, where some of the Indigenous organizations and others are looking to advocate on behalf of their members for some of these scenarios. I'm just concerned about whether we are going to see this get a little bit hairier over the next while. Maybe not a budget question, but perhaps the Minister can shed some light on that. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Interesting question. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes. We are working with our Indigenous governments. We are trying to get them to identify the rights-based cabins. We are trying to work with them. We have had some contracts with Indigenous governments who have given us their lists. As we tried to explain to people, whether it's been to Indigenous governments, or I have been on a constituent tour, if you are posted, it explains exactly what you should do. You can either reach out to a regional office or reach out to our IGO, your Indigenous government, identify it as rights-based cabins, and then we put it over to the side. What we are trying to deal with is people who do not have authorization to be on the land. For further clarity, I would ask you to reach out to the deputy minister. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Deputy Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. At the risk of sharing information that I haven't yet shared with my Minister, just an update as of today, because as the Members are aware, we have started posting in the North Slave area. Just in the last day or so, we actually received two designation forms from individuals who were indicating that they were occupying potential rights-based cabins. The process that we have laid out, people are aware of, and they are utilizing it, we believe, and we are continuing to communicate quite extensively around this and, as the Minister indicated, to engage with Indigenous governments and organizations. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Deputy Minister. Member.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate that, and I do just want to clarify that I don't I think you're running out there and taking people's cabins that you shouldn't be. It's just that we all know how things can be perceived, and I did receive some messages of, "Oh, no. What is this going to mean?" Is there an appeal process in place? I know that sometimes, in small communities, there are small community politics at times, and I am just curious to know if there is a mechanism for people who might be looking to declare themselves to be a rights-based cabin and then, perhaps, not have an agreement from the local organization, that they can then, perhaps, appeal that. Is that even a concern, really? Do we think that's going to happen? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
From my understanding, we work with our Indigenous governments to identify rights-based cabins. We have heard some challenges, that people may want to assert their rights-based cabins but that it's not their traditional territory. That could be some of the challenge that we face. However, if it's rights-based cabins and we are able to deal with it, we are putting it to the side; we are not dealing with that issue right now. We want to deal with the people who are squatters, I guess is the best way to say it, people who are not supposed to be there. That is what our priority is. It has been 50 years without it being addressed, so now we are moving forward.
We do have an appeal process to go through unauthorized occupancy. We do have lawyers. There is a process that we need to follow. Just so everybody is aware, whatever process we start is how we are going to finish. We are not going to be changing things. We want to be very consistent in our messaging and how we deal with matters because, if we do not, that is when we get ourselves into trouble. There will not be one-offs, a Minister's discretion. It will be done properly, and I just wanted to make sure the staff was aware of that and the public is aware of it. We are working to make sure it's done right. There are not going to be one-off exemptions. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank, Mr. Chair. Can I get a sense of how many notices for unauthorized occupancy went out in the North Slave? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
For that detail, I will turn to the deputy minister. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Deputy Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I believe it was around 30. Unfortunately, on the days when we started this, it was very cold. Obviously, we have to consider the safety of our enforcement staff, so how they approached the initial postings for the North Slave was perhaps more limited. They are continuing to work on their posting plan, and we expect more to be undertaken in the coming weeks and months. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Deputy Minister. Member.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Can I get a sense of how many unauthorized occupants or potential ones we have identified, either territory-wide or North-Slave specific? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Around 700 that we have identified from the territories; 550, I believe are in the North Slave area roughly, approximately, from what we understand. Those are the ones we have been able to identify presently. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to narrow in here. I think a lot of those are old abandoned cabins. I have seen a few that are garbage, and it's probably great for Lands to go and clean those sites up. Quite a few of those are going to be rights holders, and I am confident that Lands will work with Indigenous governments for a process to that. Then there is a category of post-2015 and no chance of getting a lease; we will just knock them down eventually, and that will cost us time and money. What I have heard from constituents, the most concern, is the pre-2015 structures that would be eligible for a lease, and there is that concern of are we now rewarding squatters; they never got in the cabin lottery. I am wondering if we have a sense of how many of those structures actually fit, are in that category, even a ball park. Yes, I will start with that. How many do we believe would actually be eligible for a lease? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. I will start, and then I will actually ask our assistant deputy minister to come in and finish off the answer, with your permission. Thank you. Right now, we are looking at -- sorry, I am trying to get my wording here. We are looking at making sure we do it properly. We are going to be reaching out to people. I just want to answer the Member's comment there. If they are eligible for a lease, we need to follow a process. The process is exactly what we did post-devolution, so there is a process, which would include a Section 5 consultation. However, for the numbers and that, I will ask if Mr. Chapman could come in, and he could just switch.
Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, will you escort the witness out and the new witness in? Minister, would you introduce your witness, please?
This is Assistant Deputy Minister of Operations Blair Chapman. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Chapman.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. To the Member's question, the issue is multi-staged, as he probably would appreciate. One of the first steps that we have in the process obviously is going out to post to identify which cabins are out there so that we get information from the individuals. As the deputy minister has already identified, we have got two people already identified who are asserting their rights. For the remaining ones who are not perhaps without any assertion of rights, we will work through a process of identifying how many of those there are. What we will need to do at that point in time is to go out to consult with the local Indigenous governments to determine whether or not we are in a capacity to be able even to enter into a potential lease down the road. It again will be a stage where we need to reach out first to the IGOs, get their feedback, and engage in a dialogue with them. Then at that point in time, once we get that information, we can determine how to move forward.
A great number of these, we have already gone out and done some work on the ground to where we have identified the location, the number of structures that they have in place, how close in proximity to the ordinary high water mark. Whether they meet criteria to actually enter into a lease will be a significant issue, as well. The early numbers from the work that we have done show that it's certainly not going to be a majority of these that will actually be able to apply for a lease because they do not meet the criteria that we currently established. There are going to be some major challenges for some of the individuals out there. It's not going to be a significant number of these that we anticipate, but I guess that process will play itself out over the next couple of years. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Chapman. Member.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, I am glad to hear that explanation because I think the initial reaction I got from a lot of constituents was that, "We are just going to let a bunch of squatters get cabins?" I think this is probably a multi-year process and rather complicated. Can I just get conformation of that, the path forward where you would become an authorized occupant? Would it be pre-2015, you built a structure; does it have to meet all of the 2015 cabin lottery lease requirements, which were 100-foot setbacks, number of structures -- they are actually quite elaborate rules, looking at all those leases. Is that the criteria we essentially would be using for granting people leases, was those 2015 cabin lottery leases? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. For that detail, I'll turn to the assistant deputy minister. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Mr. Chapman.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes. All of our lessees are held to a certain high standard, and we anticipate that anyone else who would be considered to potentially enter into a lease must meet that same high standard, and so fundamentally, the answer is yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Chapman. Member.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister speak to what the plan is to do with structures that don't meet those cabin requirements? I know of a couple of people who have built structures over the years that would probably be, if they were legal, a few hundred-thousand-dollar homes that may be not 100 feet back from the water. If we have a perfectly good home that doesn't meet the lease requirements, is the end of this process then demolishing that? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
I'll start, and with your permission, I'll turn to the deputy minister. We do have a process. We will be going through that process that would require us, if they are not authorized occupants there, we do have to go through a process. If they are not eligible for a lease because they are not following the variants, we have the court process that we can go with. I think we can also, if we are able to move the structure, that is an option to fall into the variance, but for clarity and further detail, I will ask the assistant deputy minister, with your permission. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
