I’d like to recognize a long-time Yellowknifer, a respected senior and a constituent of the Great Slave riding, Ms. Jan Stirling.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The honourable Member for Yellowknife South, Mr. Bob McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a very long list. I don’t know if everybody is still here, but I’d like to start by recognizing the executive director of the NWT Tourism, Mr. Jerry Laprieur; the executive director of the NWT Chamber of Commerce, Mr. John Curran; the president of the Yellowknife Chamber of Commerce, Mr. Jon Jaque; the president of Canadian North, Tracy Medve; vice-president Kelly Kaylo from Canadian North as well. I’d like to recognize Gord Clarke, the treasurer of NWT Chamber of Mines. Constituents: I have Anne Juneau, constituent of Yellowknife South; Gayla Wick, constituent of Yellowknife South; a long-time friend and classmate, Mary Carr; Mr. Ed Jeske -- I don’t know if he’s still here or not -- a long-time hockey booster and long-time friend, Mr. Bill Erasmus, president of the Dene Nation; and Darrell Beaulieu, the chair of the Business Development Investment Corporation. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.
I’ve got a few people I’d like to recognize today: Barb Wyness and Gayla Wick with the UNW. I’d like to thank both ladies for their help on the petition I’ll be presenting later today. Also, Mr. David Wind and Lydia Bardak, both Yellowknife city councillors, and a former colleague on Yellowknife City Council, Mr. Ben McDonald; also a former Member, Leon Lafferty. Welcome Chief Lafferty. I can’t see up behind me so welcome to any other Kam Lake constituents and other folks who are in the gallery today. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Member for Monfwi, Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to recognize my constituents and also my chiefs: Chief Leon Lafferty of Behchoko, Chief Charlie Nitsiza of Whati. Also, I’d like to recognize David Reid, president of NWTTA sitting with us. Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to recognize some constituents: Joyce Gilchrist, Dick and Loretta Abernethy, folks of my colleague here beside me. Also, Bill Erasmus, constituent of Weledeh and, of course, there’s other old timers that I recognize in the audience, many, but Bob and Loretta Gamble. Good to see them here and the chiefs from Tlicho. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Member for Range Lake, Ms. Lee.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to recognize a couple of constituents: Ms. Heidi-Ann Wild. Sorry, I hope I didn’t screw up the name. Sorry. I believe she’s here to represent the Public Service Alliance of Canada, and Mr. Guy Leblanc who has been my constituent for a long time. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.
I, too, wish to recognize Dave and Anne Wind, they’re up on the top floor of the gallery; Mr. Terry Testart, he’s next to the chiefs there; Ms. Lydia Bardak and Mr. Ben McDonald. Of course, if anyone else from Yellowknife Centre is here I’d like to welcome them. From my position it’s difficult to see the whole gallery. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.
Mr. Speaker, I have three constituents here that I’d like to recognize today: Barb Wyness who’s here with the UNW; Jeff Corradetti, I don’t know if Jeff’s associated with anything in particular or not; and Kim Bailey, who is with PSAC. I’d also like to say that I would be remiss if I didn’t recognize the many respected Yellowknife elders who are up behind me and many other people who I can’t see. Welcome to those. Thank you.
I would like to recognize a constituent of mine, Mr. Roy Courtoreille, who is in the gallery, regional vice-president of UNW. If we missed anyone in the gallery today, welcome to the House. I hope you are enjoying the proceedings. It is always nice to have an audience in here.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The issues have been spoken to quite directly and a fair bit, are the potential changes to the extended health benefits as well as the Supplementary Health Benefits Plan. Mr. Speaker, in short, the Minister has offered to delay the plan to go out to further consultation. It does create a lot of fear and the worry is it predetermines. So I am going to ask the Minister clearly here: Is adjusting the time implementation, implementation time frame, just a delay tactic or what does she mean by getting out there to do meaningful consultation?
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Ms., Lee.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, first of all, it’s really important for the seniors out there to know that this government will continue to provide a package of programs that are better than any of the other comparable, competitive, very good…We have very good packages for constituents. As the changes are laid out right now, for a single income senior, if your retirement income is around $60,000 to $70,000, you will still get supplementary health benefits. I think talking about net income has missed that point. When I travel across the country and the Territories and tell them that most people say that is fair, that is a good threshold. The problem we have now for the seniors is that we’ve got a couple or seniors in a different mix-up, mix of a family. We need to improve that a bit. I have no reason to think that we are going to do any less than about $70,000 retirement income. I have talked to everybody who has called me. I have been talking to many seniors for many weeks now and 90 percent of the time, the coverage will not be affected. I am really concerned the lack of information or misinterpretation is giving fear to the seniors in a way that they should not be.
So, Mr. Speaker, in talking about public consultation, I mean it when I say we are going to have a good, meaningful consultation process. It’s going to be a two-way exchange of information. I have committed to be open minded and willing to listen to what seniors have to say. I think it’s really also important for seniors to know how these changes are going to affect them and I am committed to making sure they have all the information they need.
Mr. Speaker, one of the issues that took my breath away is the fact that I didn’t feel consulted in this whole process and when it was finally launched to the public, I felt that I was misinformed and didn’t have a chance to it. Now that may be as it may be, but the reality is I felt I didn’t have the full information at the time. So will the Minister clearly commit to this House that she will present the new plan or new policy before Members or some type of dialogue before there is any final implementation so we know what’s going out there and she has that type of support? Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, people in the gallery and ourselves should know that it is a regular practice in this Legislature that any policy changes go to the standing committee for review and consultation. That took place with the supplementary health benefits in December of 2008, and between 2003 and ’07 this proposal went to the standing committee at least five or six times. It is consulted with NGOs and with the NWT Seniors’ Society as well as the Yellowknife Seniors’ Society. So I understand that the depth and breadth of consultation is not as good as what people would like to have and I have committed that we will go back and we will continue on with the consultation.
Mr. Speaker, the Minister did allude to it in a certain way. I just want to make sure that it’s absolutely clear and on the record, income threshold, when it comes to a couple of needs to be revisited in recognition of the cost of living and whatnot. So will the Minister make sure these are clearly on the record, that these are the types of things that would be looked at and considered in this consultation? Thank you.
Absolutely.
Thank you, Ms. Lee. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Although the deadline target has been set and, in my view, I thought I got an answer yesterday that said if consultations were required beyond that, the deadline would come off. I just want to make sure it’s clear again in that spirit, if consultation hasn’t been fully fulfilled, due to weather, it’s summer, or they aren’t getting enough participation, people’s schedules are busy, will the Minister be clear today in this House to say if more time is needed not to rush this policy out to market? Will she say she will move the date if necessary to fully comply with fair consultation? Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, given the level of interest and the communication that we’ve been receiving from the public on these changes, I have a feeling that we are going to be able to seek and get input from the public as well as stakeholders to these programs. The department plans to have information sessions in all of the regional centres. We are going to do a full and meaningful consultation. The end date is to have it done by September 1st, but as I stated before, the important part of this exercise is to do the right work and we are committed to do that.
Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.
I would like to follow up with the Minister of Health if I could briefly and ask, will the consultation include information on what the size of the different cohorts are in terms of the different thresholds? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The document that the department will prepare as a point of start for discussion will include such information. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you to the Minister. Mr. Speaker, will it include what the character of those cohorts are? By that, I mean holistically what are their roles in the community and the community’s well-being? Will there be an assessment of that? Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, I am going to have to ask the Member to re-ask that question because I am not sure if I understand it.
Yes, for clarification, obviously a new policy like this can have different affects on different cohorts depending on their ability to pay and depending on the role they play in our community. For example, let’s take the seniors. These are a cohort of people who have incredible expertise and experience, and often time and energy and willingness to contribute to the community. So when we have impacts on them, obviously it’s going to roll through the whole community and Territory. So I am looking for a commitment. Will the Minister commit to providing that sort of assessments for each of those cohorts? Thank you.
To be honest, I am not sure if that would be part of…That might be going outside of the work the Department of Health and Social Services would do in terms of addressing some of the major concerns that were brought up about the supplementary health benefit changes. Having said that, I do acknowledge that within the course of the last six or seven weeks since the policy changes were announced, we have heard lots of stories and background situations that does make us think about it and put it into context in thinking about how these changes will affect our population. So in general terms, I will make the commitment to make sure that that is part of that. So that would be my response to that question.
Again, thank you to the Minister for those comments. Yes, obviously there are different levels of complexity to this whole issue. Fundamentally, though, it can be expressed by if people leave the Territory, and especially talented and contributing members of our society, that is a great cost, so that needs to be considered. So will, finally perhaps, the public consultation also include the presentation of alternative solutions, some options for the public to consider? Thank you.
I think the information session...That is why we are calling it an information session workshop format; because that is what the NWT Seniors’ Society and other NGOs have done before in talking about changes to supplementary health format. In those discussions I think it would be a good opportunity to show the package of programs that we have available for seniors in the North, understanding, for example, we provide an exception for property taxes for seniors, which I don’t think other provinces do, and there are some other programs. We have to look at the attractiveness for seniors to retire here, and we have to remain competitive. So in that way I think that will be part of the discussion. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you Mr. Speaker. My question today is for the Minister of Finance, who is also the chair of the Financial Management Board. It goes back to the $34 million loan to Discovery Air. What I want to speak about today, Mr. Speaker, is the process that allowed this to happen. The way I look at it, if something like this happened in a province and the government made a decision to lend $34 million, that loan would come under some heavy scrutiny; there would be some accountability and there would be some oversight. In the case of the Government of the Northwest Territories, two Ministers show up to a meeting with Regular Members and tell us they lent $34 million and don’t have once ounce of information with them on two consecutive occasions. To me, that is wrong. That is why this is drawing so much fire from across the Territory, not just here in Yellowknife, but all across the Territory. I would like to begin by asking the chair of FMB, the Minister of Finance, if FMB makes the final decision on lending money from the Opportunities Fund, then what utility do the senior bureaucrats who form the society have?
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Honourable Minister of Finance, Mr. Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The Opportunities Fund is under the oversight of the Minister of ITI, but this fund was structured very specifically back in 2003 in its passive form. The criteria set, the government made a decision to put deputies on there when we were approached with this unsolicited proposal and given the economic circumstance. At that point FMB decided to play an active role. In this case, we made the decisions right away, the committee and the appropriate departments did a lot of the groundwork in conjunction with the consultants that were brought in, but the decisions were made by the Financial Management Board in this case. Thank you.
The Opportunities Fund itself is a substantial amount of money, in the neighbourhood initially of $128 million. A decision like that by Cabinet to go from a passive investment vehicle to something which is very high risk, I think that’s a decision and a question that should have been asked of all Members of this House. There is a number of Members on this side of the House that have some good ideas about how to stimulate our own northern economy and perhaps even borrowing some of the money ourselves and looking at our own stimulus package. You know, we never had the chance, and like I said, the Minister showed up, and the reason I am asking the Minister of Finance this is because FMB made the decision, even though the Minister of ITI --and ITI oversees the Opportunities Fund; the decision was made by FMB, which is chaired by the Finance Minister. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance, did the society and the senior officials supply FMBS with a recommendation to pursue this risky investment and where is that recommendation, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.
There was extensive work done. The due diligence part was done through FMB -- FMBS sorry -- and the Department of Finance. There is an extensive file, there is some due diligence that we shared, there was ongoing negotiations, there is a file. We recognize that there is risk. We didn’t think it was a high enough risk to preclude us, given the economic circumstances, from not making the loan. We looked at the jobs, the economy, the value-added as well as the $13 million in interest payments. So, yes, there is a file, there was recommendations brought in, the assessment of the due diligence, the level of risk, all the revenue projections, the health of Discovery Air, and the final decision was made by FMB.
I would like to ask the Minister of Finance, the due diligence, as I have been told, was done by the company itself. I am not sure to what level FMB did its own due diligence on this, but the people I have talked to -- and myself, I am not an accountant, but looking at the financial statements, unaudited financial statements of that company dated October 31st of last year, they are $141 million in debt and I don’t know how their cashflow projections are going to enable them to pay any money back at the end of four years. They are in an awful lot of trouble, Mr. Speaker. Again, I want to find out from the Finance Minister, it sounds like this was a political decision and to heck with the evidence, and maybe the next phone call I will be making here is to the Auditor General of Canada.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. I didn’t hear a question there. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.
My questions are directed to the Minister of Finance. I would like to go back to my Member’s statement in October of 2008 when I said, “We need a committee of GNWT employees, composed of only front-line and middle management staff who represent all departments and agencies, a committee which reports directly to MLAs of the Finance Minister, and the job of this committee would be to provide suggestions to reduce our costs.” I would like to ask the Minister, at this point, is this committee in place, and if not, why not? Thank you.
