Sergeant-at-Arms, escort the witnesses in.
For the record, Mr. Minister, can you introduce your witnesses?
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. I have with me the deputy minister, Dan Daniels, to my left, and, to my right, Paul Devitt, director of strategic investment services. Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Welcome, witnesses. Prior to adjournment yesterday, I suggested we allow the Minister to respond to comments from yesterday, and from there we go back to general comments starting with Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Minister.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, first of all, I would like to touch on the Early Childhood Small Community Initiative that’s been allocated, approximately $600,000. This is to increase a half-time position in the Sahtu and Deh Cho regions and also in Fort Smith and Inuvik from one position to 1.5. That’s an additional $250,000. An increase in the early childhood programs that we talked about in the small, remote communities. So we’ve identified funding for that as well. The funding in addition to the $600,000 for the Early Childhood Small Community Initiative is Early Childhood Program territorial-wide increase, so combined will be $1.2 million in the early childhood area.
In the capital program for daycares, as Members have asked about adequate space for child care, of course, it’s an important piece of work ahead of us. An increase in subsidies may help some requirements. So those are the areas that we continue to improve on, Mr. Chair. There is also rent and mortgage subsidies that have been added.
The high schools in small communities... There has been talk about access in the trades area. Mr. Chair, there has been some initiatives underway, whether it be providing laptops to the grade 12 students in small, isolated communities and infrastructure contribution, as well, through CTS, career and technology facilities. So we’ve made some investment in that area.
Another area that we are focussing on is on our technology, upgrading our systems that we have in place, just focussing on the education factor, the broadband centre of...(inaudible)...services.
The high school in Sachs has been brought to our attention. Of course, it is of importance and we need to discuss that further. We need to work closely with the education councils that we have in all regions. When it comes to issues that are being addressed, we will continue to work with them, because we do provide funding based on enrolment. So those are the challenges that have been put before us. So we will work with the school boards.
The elders in schools have been brought up before. Of course, elders are an important source of knowledge in our schools. They provide wisdom and experience through our education system. I haven’t really ignored this area because it is of importance to our department to have that in our school system. We have been trying to get around the system of them not being penalized, whether it be their pension or old age security. So those are the ongoing discussions we are having and we’re trying to come up with a strategic plan to move forward. We also work with education councils in this respect, working with the superintendents.
Mr. Chair, board reform has been brought up as well. This, as you know, there is still encouraging and supporting great collaboration among the various groups, the boards and agencies. We continue to work with other departments as well, interdepartmental areas. So we continue to have that dialogue, but we’ll certainly be asking for more information from the school boards themselves, because we need to compile the information that we need to work with. So we will be seeking input in these areas of collaboration. Mr. Chair, those are the ongoing communications that we’re having with the regions.
Another area that has been brought to our attention through this discussion is, of course, and even earlier today, is the Ecole Allain St-Cyr addition. This is part of the discussion that will occur through the consultation 10-year education plan that’s scheduled for Yellowknife. That particular school is part of the plan. Consultants have been hired to provide that service. So this particular information will be helpful for the next capital planning process.
The school in Tuk, Mangilaluk School. DK Consulting was hired to do a complete educational plan. It has been completed. Now it lays out what needs to be done. That will be in the works for the next capital planning process. They’re compiling that information that we can work with within our department.
Mr. Chair, the official languages. That is of great importance for us. The GNWT tabled the interim response, as you are aware, in the Legislative Assembly in the fall of 2009. We want to provide more of an in-depth implementation plan on responding to these questions that were thrown at us, the recommendations. So we are developing a strategy to deal with those matters. Not only that, Mr. Chair, but involving aboriginal groups, aboriginal organizations. We are having a language symposium, as you are aware, at the end of March/beginning of April. Based on the outcome of that, we will definitely develop a comprehensive strategy and develop an implementation plan for each language group.
On the income security that has been brought up on numerous occasions, there has been some core delivery of courses with some improvement. The highest quality of service is part of our priority that we continue to provide those services in a timely and efficient manner, as best as we can as a department. Of course, there have been expressive concerns of customer services, questioning the customer service aspect of it, community relations. So those are the areas that we continue to improve on.
Mr. Chair, there are other areas that have been addressed: the O and M and mostly in the income security area where we’ve made some changes. As I indicated earlier, there’s been an additional increase in caseloads that we are currently dealing with. As we move forward, we’ll definitely provide more detailed information on that.
Mr. Chair, a lot of discussion or questions pertaining to education can be dealt with as we get to the details of it, but inclusive schooling, the funding that’s been highlighted, the Member has indicated there’s been a decrease. We can certainly elaborate more when we are at those detailed stages, but this also hinges on the enrolment that we’re challenged with in all schools. So we continue to work with the school boards and how we can improve in those areas.
So, Mr. Chair, those are just some of the highlights of the opening comments that Members have shared with us and I’ll continue to provide more detailed information and also respond to Members’ additional opening comments. Mahsi, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Minister. General comments. Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The comments I have are just more in the sense of general comments to the Minister. Certainly, there will be further discussion once we get to the details of it.
I want to just let the Minister know that in our region there’s a big need to look at our education system and we’ve certainly had some discussions with the Minister regarding how we look at our education system in the Sahtu. The issue of high school students graduating with quality high school credits and there is a difference of opinion on this subject. However, the matter is we have high school students in our communities who are walking around, hands in their pockets, going into the income support office, getting income assistance and living off income assistance and we are not doing any good, Mr. Chair. We need to look at that in terms of how we get them out of that state of dependency on the government to a state where we want them to be productive.
There are a lot of young, good people in my region that want to do good in their life. Like any child, they want to do good in their life by making an effort to get into school, get a trade or get a degree and come back to the community to be role models for the children. I don’t think any of them are very happy in going to the income support office for a handout.
I think two things, Mr. Chair. The first is look at our education system how we are producing graduates. We want to produce quality graduates. I mentioned to the Minister that we want to work with this Minister to have a symposium in the Sahtu region and the Minister has agreed to work with me. We’ll have to get some details together and have this much needed symposium in the Sahtu to really take charge in terms of how we produce high school graduates that can go out to post-secondary institutions or go to a trade school and do good and come back to the communities. So that’s one the Minister and I agreed to work on together. Actually, I have some draft proposals that are going to begin going to him shortly in terms of how we do stuff like this together.
The other one is income support really needs to be looked at. What are we doing in terms of... The Minister has indicated there is an increase, actually double the case files in terms of income support. Are we creating more dependency on our young people to the government in terms of funding? Or is it just a sign of the times that there’s no economy? The percentage of employment in our region is low. Mr. Chair, the employment rate, for example, in Colville Lake is 53 percent; Fort Good Hope is 52 percent; Deline is 46 percent; Tulita, 49 percent. That’s the employment rate. In Norman Wells, the oilfield, it’s 82 percent. The unemployment rate is 20 percent in the communities and only 7 percent in Norman Wells. So we really have to look at this in terms of taking a hard look at the means of the Income Support Program. We need to get our youth out. I have faith in terms of their ability to be a productive member of the community. That is something that I really want to look at. I will look at it more in detail in terms of going into the detail in the budget here.
Mr. Chairman, we have a young population in the Sahtu. There are 45 percent of our population that is under 25 years of age. That is a high number of youth under 25; 45 percent of our total population of the Sahtu. We need to look at programs that would benefit them and services that would benefit them. One of the things that I like about the budget is a look at trades programs. It is long overdue. I am looking forward to the Minister to see how they would be implemented into our schools in the Sahtu, see where they would benefit, something like the Mackenzie Valley Highway or the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline and other initiatives.
Nutritious Food Initiative; I think the traditional foods need to be more exposed, more educated in the communities in terms of foods that are taken from the land. They need to be promoted and need to be explained by the elders on traditional foods. We need to have discussions with the elders. I look forward to receiving more things like that. It could happen.
I guess I wanted to close in terms of schooling in the Sahtu. I talked to our educational chair superintendent some time ago. I asked them what is it that they need to help us with our education. One thing he said is that we certainly need high school teachers in our schools; the funding is not adequate; the funding is not sufficient. I said, what do you mean? He said, well, we need high school teachers in some of our communities in the Sahtu. We had extra teachers in our communities. It will make a big difference in the quality of education our students are getting. Right now, they are just doing barely minimum standards to meet the requirements. It is not fair to our students. However, on the other side, that will cost a lot of money to get extra teachers into the Sahtu. Here we talked about that. How do we get an extra three or four million out of this government for teachers? This is only one region. The superintendent and I already had some discussions on that in terms of having high school teachers in our communities.
Mr. Chairman, the Minister made a ministerial statement -- I don’t have the exact day -- in terms of contribution of elders in our education system, our schools. I guess I want to know that this Minister is going to do something. I don’t know how long we have been talking about it. Still we haven’t seen it. This Minister has to do something to bring our elders into schools. It would be wonderful to walk into one of our schools and there is a room there, an office or room where there is an elder there. They go see the elder. That is part of our teaching. It is part of our culture. He is a Minister. He could do things that could ensure… These elders don’t know our system. They want to encourage parents to go into schools. Bring the elders in there. Elders can go talk to the parents when they come to school and all that. That is the way you get parents into the school system. They listen to the elders. Prominent elders in education, elders that speak up at meetings and tell us how things are going to be and how things should be. That is how you get the parents in there. That is all the advice I am going to give to the Minister in terms of how he is trying to get parents involved in schools. Get the elders in the schools. He is a Minister. Let’s see him do it. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. I would like to recognize Mr. Joe Bailey up in the gallery and guests in the gallery. Welcome to the gallery and to the House. Next I have his boss, Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have given my opening comments on the opening remarks by the Minister. I was thinking we were moving into the period for questions at this time.
Mr. Beaulieu, are you questioning that the Minister responds to the questions now or do you want to wait until we conclude on the presentation, then have them answer the questions?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am okay to wait until we get to detail and get to the item on the right page.
I have you on the list. Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is a very good opportunity to comment on some of the current directions of Education, Culture and Employment at this time when we are reviewing line-by-line budget items. Perhaps I will just follow up on my Member’s statement earlier today on aboriginal language dollars being lapsed in 2007-08 and 2008-09. I know we are in the 2009-10 fiscal year. We are debating 2010-11, but my concern is that I do not wish to see this happen again for this coming fiscal year. I know that some departments strive very hard at the end of the fiscal year to spend their budgeting but, for whatever reason, our aboriginal language doesn’t have the same verve to get this money out to the communities, to the specific projects out there. By far, that would be, of course, my single greatest criticism, especially when I have projects that I have been supporting and moving forward and I get a letter saying, sorry, all the money is spent for this year. I know it is not true. That is my concern right now. I would like the department to watch out for that and even support whatever initiatives the community base as they come along, especially given the importance we have given the aboriginal languages.
Like I said, the French are very vigorous in ensuring their rights are entrenched. We do have laws that entrench our aboriginal languages. Ourselves as legislators, ourselves as a government have to do everything we can to ensure that whatever resources we dedicate to our aboriginal languages are spent and not lapsed, because once you are doing that, especially in the hundreds of thousands of dollars, that is a lot of resources that our communities, our language learners, our small schools can use to bolster our aboriginal languages.
In this new budget, I am interested in the Minister of Finance’s statement, of course, with the return of the income support for housing back to the housing authorities. I think that is a great move. That is something people have been looking for.
But also coupled with this is something that I will be speaking about probably later there, Mr. Chairman, is that the rent scale has to be rolled back again. As government we can do that. I think the last time the rent scale was at the 90 percent level of salary and what that, in effect, means, Mr. Chairman, is that previous to the rent scale being moved up to 100 percent, people were actually paying $500 a month for their low rental units.
In fact, I’ve got a constituent that said when we roll it up to 100 percent, their rents were now $700 or $800 and they’re saying, well, why do you call it low rental housing when we’re not paying low rent. Right? And that’s something that our people are looking for, is the ability of our government… They do it in other jurisdictions. They actually have low rental housing programs, but because of the way we change things so much… There were a couple changes that happened at the same time -- I’m very aware of that -- but we don’t have low rental housing and other jurisdictions do. In fact, they create low housing districts in order to stimulate the economy there, Mr. Chair, and that’s the same kind of vision we must return to. In order to help our people, the rent has got to be low. We can’t be clawing them back and keeping them in the salary negative, which means every time they make more money, then we charge them more. There has to be a better way around it.
First things first. I applaud the government for listening to this side of the House and working hard on returning housing back over to the housing authorities. I think that’s something that our people wanted. I know that there’s much debate about it finally working. People are getting used to it now and returning it. But at the same time that’s what people have always wanted and I think we’re going in the right direction with that.
Another thing that’s picking up interest, of course, is the $400,000 with regard to the Nutritious Foods Program. I know it’s listed as a nutritious foods study in the budget. Government has written to this side of the House saying they’re going to re-profile it to establish a committee and look at other ways of distributing this money to the communities. I’m not too sure how it works in the smaller communities, but I know that our education councils have bent over backwards, found whatever money they could to help with nutritious breakfasts, annual luncheon in our smaller communities, and if there’s going to be $400,000 to assist with nutritious foods, if anything, I think that’s where it should go. It’s increasing the value of the food they can provide to smaller communities and a lot of it is done by volunteers as well, but it’s a great thing that they’re going to re-profile it and move it towards that type of programming. But the plan is not clear of how that $400,000 is going to be re-profiled. They’re talking about, of course, creating a committee, but establishing a committee is the last thing that my constituents tell me. They say they would rather see programming and resource dollars right in the communities as opposed to striking up some kind of committee. The last thing we need is another committee. However, of course, direction has to be given about how to best distribute this money, but I think the goal is to bolster our community programs and if this is one way we can do it, I certainly support the direction government is going, but it’s still not clear. Perhaps when we come to that line item, Mr. Chair, I’ll ask more questions on it.
Other than that, just moving on about increasing money budgeted for community adult learning centres is much needed support, as well, to our communities.
Actually, while I’ve got the floor, Mr. Speaker, I better speak passionately about something I’ve been asking the Minister and our government, which was the community library in Fort Simpson. There’s still no resolution there despite how many times I’ve raised the issue and tried to move it forward. It’s not supported by government only because there’s some kind of transfer agreement that the Village of Fort Simpson uses it. But I’ve been thinking, Mr. Chair, some of the funded libraries that we do have are in the regional centres and in fact they’re entrenched in our Public Libraries Act. They’re actually in the act, like Hay River, Yellowknife. They’re actually a public library in the act so they’re funded by the Government of the Northwest Territories. If we could move towards something like that, Mr. Chair, we’d move towards establishing that Fort Simpson library as a regional library, then the resource of our government can certainly work towards establishing it. A community of that size, a region of about 4,000 people without a public library is very, very shameful. Believe it or not, there are still people that have value for books even in our Internet world, but now all we’re reduced to is just a resource centre there, Mr. Chair, with a bunch of computers. Of course, the children still use it, but a lot of the impact of having a library is gone and children used to love it when we had a good program of bringing in authors, et cetera. So it’s probably still there, but it’s just not the same impact, Mr. Chair.
So I’ll continue to raise those issues as we move through the budget deliberations. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Next on my list I have Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do have a few issues in regard to the budget with this department and mostly in the area of the social program side in regard to income support, the housing supp program. I know that it’s being transferred back, but it does show up in your budget as money coming through CMHC. Again, the time it’s going to take to make this transition, I think that it’s important that we do try to implement it hopefully sooner than later.
But I do have concerns similar to my colleagues from the Sahtu and from the Nahendeh in regard to the whole policy development around income support and the ability of that policy to really do what it’s intended to do, is to be a support mechanism to allow people to make a transition from being unemployed to being employed, to being able to take advantage of education programs and services and, more importantly, have a stable system where you have some flexibility in how that program is being delivered.
I’ve had an opportunity to talk to people within the Income Support Program and through the district board of education and also through the education office in Inuvik, and they’re frustrated, because they mean well, they want to help people, but I think the policy is too rigid and I think sometimes we have ideas, but what happens is when we try to implement it, the bureaucrats get a hold of it and they make it so soundproof that it’s not flexible. I think we have to re-look at that policy and find ways to be able to work through that policy to help somebody who is in need where it is classified as some sort of emergency person who either got laid off or their house burnt down or for some reason that they’re in desperate need of support and we can’t keep sticking to these time frames and say you’re sorry, you’ve got to be here three months or you have to be unemployed for three months before we can assist you. I think there has to be some flexibility on how that policy is administered and I think it also has to take into consideration the social and economic realities of where that policy is being administered. A good illustration is going on in the Beaufort Sea right now. The economic activity has basically come to a complete halt. There is no real activity going on right now and I think that a lot of people who need the support have to be able to access that support.
I know another issue that I’ve raised is the whole area of elders payouts in regard to the Gwich’in. The Gwich’in made a motion last year at their assembly for the sake of the elders who are aged and ready to pass on, that they wanted to give them something before their days are up and that we’re able to do an advanced payment for people from ages 60 onwards so that it was a one-time payment. That was it. Once you got that payment, you weren’t going to get any more. That was the understanding. But because they got $2,600, the government, and my understanding when Charles Dent was in this House, I know asking him questions in the past, you know, that there was an exemption when it referred to the Inuvialuit and the Gwich’in land claim. It was definitely referred in the exemption section of that policy, but for some reason, I know the Gwich’in have written letters to the department and they have requested some sort of legal opinion on exactly how is it, because under their agreement they refer more to the tax act in regards to how those dollars would be classified as settlement payouts versus dividend payouts, which they weren’t. They were settlement payouts, they weren’t dividend payouts. So there is a class of dollars how you would classify them.
Again, that is another illustration of the frustration people have, and also we have to be able to work around some of these challenges but also have the flexibility to change that program. The other issue that I raised is trying to find ways of enhancing education in small communities. I know we talk about Sachs Harbour, we talk about Tsiigehtchic, I think. I know we can do that if we just put our minds to it and put some resources either into technology, advancing those technologies that are out there in regards to Internet access to other school systems. More importantly, have the resource people on the ground that can support those high school students in those communities and try to find a way to allow K to 12 to exist in communities, and I think we can do it by way of advancing some of our technical support by way of technology, but, more importantly, having people on the ground that can work with the students in regard to the courses they require, but, more importantly, have the materials accessible to them. I know you mentioned something in your statement about you are doing something with the, I believe it is with Alberta, in regards to a program there. I think that is a perfect opportunity to try to find ways of working with communities such as Sachs Harbour, Tsiigehtchic and other communities of similar size.
Again, I raise the issue in this House about the cost of having a boarding school in Inuvik. I mean, you know, at one point we had a boarding school there, which basically was costing somewhere in the range of $500,000 and just lately they have changed the whole concept from a boarding home to actually home boarding and again that is costing you $200,000. Again with the number of children that have dropped out, it is almost half. Last year you said they were down to two students and I think that is telling us for that type of investment, they should allow the DAs or education counsel, Beau-Del counsel to have the flexibility to try to find solutions. These students want to retain their high school education in their home communities, try to work around that solution because student-pupil ratio concept that we use does not fit small communities and I think we have to find a way around that. Again, I think it is going to take a little bit of effort on both sides to find solutions to these problems.
The other areas in regards to the Western Arctic Leadership Program in Fort Smith, I mean, if anything, that is the Cadillac that should be allowed to take place in all regions so that students that do have potential, especially in our high schools... And I know for a fact I have students going to Inuvik because they can’t get the curriculum that they need to go into the Nursing Program, or go into southern institutions and move on with regards to post-secondary education, college or university, and I think that is what it is going to take to retain the best students that we have in the Northwest Territories. Give them that extra support and that extra boost. Maybe we should consider expanding the Western Arctic Leadership Program from Fort Smith and put it in other regions so that we can see the success that that program has had and also offer it in other regions. Again, I have talked with the aboriginal leadership, I know the Gwich’in are interested in Inuvik, that is the case of having them provide the infrastructure. They are willing to seriously look at it, but again that is the type of thinking outside the box that we have to be realistic about.
Again, there is the question about the Food Mail Program and I think that, if anything, we have to find a way of increasing the food basket in our communities, but, more importantly, deal with the issue. I know we have the school program in regards to the breakfast program. We have programs that most of the band offices... You can go to the band office in Inuvik, you can go to the band office in Aklavik or Fort McPherson and you can go there for lunch, and again that is to support people that basically are going hungry and, more importantly, that people are being able to access a meal when they need it. I think that more importantly is the breakfast program than the success we see in our schools to ensure that that type of program is really active. I think we can’t see money being wasted on administration. It has to go right into the program so it is spent on the individuals, the food being provided and, more importantly, that we are not spending money on another report or some major administrative overhaul.
Mr. Chairman, I think also one of the areas that is essential for this department to look at is the area of -- I know I touched on it earlier -- working in conjunction with the holistic approach of education in regards to early childhood development, kindergarten to elementary school, high school, university. I think we have to take a look at exactly how we want to see ourselves as government administer programs, basically looking at the whole cycle of education to ensure that we are able to see the chain reaction that we have from the programs that we have right from introductory education to students prior to kindergarten and there is pre-school and how that all fits together in our community. I think we have to work with other organizations and agencies in our communities to support that type of a concept because, at the end of the day, education is what is going to pull us out of the rut that we are in, and, more importantly, look at the support that the communities are going to need to make them self-reliant and, more importantly, have educated people so that they can take advantage of the economy and the future development that we have. So with that, thank you very much.
Thank you Mr. Krutko. Next I have Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you Mr. Chairman. I am very happy to provide some comments to the Minister’s opening of his budget for this type of discussion.
Mr. Chairman, a lot of issues that I think could go a long ways, you know I wish that the department would find a way, and they haven’t here, but I wish they would find a way that we could address some of our issues that we have in Income Support with moving the social work component back into Income Support. That was a mistake made by the government in its wisdom, back in the day, when they thought, well, maybe the social worker component should be over with the Department of Health and Social Services. Now, whoever came up with that idea, and I am sure they thought they were genius, but you know as I look at it and try to help people through the income support process, I mean a lot of people have more issues before them and challenges that are before them than an average data entry person can provide. I think the guidance of a social work type of person in that job could do a lot to inspire people to help them get back on their feet to provide them opportunity and just that little ‘umph’ of a pat them on the back and say, you know, look, we will help you through this, we will give you some ideas and have you tried these. It is a complete philosophy change as opposed to if somebody shows up and says, look, I can’t cover rent and they do the little tap on their keyboard with their numbers and say you either qualify or you don’t qualify and I find it is a missing element, if I may define it as simple as this, Mr. Chairman, it is a human element being lost in the income support process. When it works and it is seamless that your paperwork flows and flows and goes, you know, most people don’t care, but I think what that process really needs to do is help inspire people to get on their own feet so they can get back in the running and get back in the game. Sometimes a little inspiration from someone with the right type of background, the right type of personal experience. I mean, some of the best income support workers I have heard of are people who have bad days behind them. They have had some experiences, they understand what the real world is about and they understand, they relate with people who show up at their office with some other troubles and I mean, as sort of a point to this issue is some of the best addictions counsellors, as an example, are people who have gone through those troubles and they can say, look, when I tell you it is going to be tough on you, they really mean it, because they know it. That is sort of the issue that I am trying to bring to light here, and I have always felt that this is a gap for a long-term strategy in the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. I would not want to say in any way that the staff are not well meaning and I would not want to define in any way that they are not dedicated, I think they are. I think many of them probably carry many of the difficult challenges, that they have seen through the day, home. You know, it is the style of staffing I think could go a long way.
I’m going to change gears, Mr. Chairman, and I’m going to talk about an issue that has been raised. I think it was raised just a minute ago. I hear about the milk subsidy and although I’m not particularly a big fan of it, and this sort of relates back to the income support, because I’ve always been concerned about it’s not the quality of the milk in the sense of what that will do to a young person’s life. I grew up on it. That’s all I drank as a child and my mother always said that I probably drank more milk than anyone she knew. But I think that the government providing a subsidy specific to that is the wrong approach and that if they feel that it’s a money issue -- and this ties back to the income support -- then we should really identify on what these things actually cost. Because if it’s a government policy that I would not object to say, well, we want to make sure that parents can parent, making sure that they can afford the extra cost of milk. Whether it’s in a community or wherever, why don’t we just bump up the income support rate to reflect that? I think it’s important, and this is back to my theme of the income support issue, which is it’s important to empower people to make the decisions themselves. I mean, there are certain people that, you know, we will always need to be there to help hold their hand and certainly there will always be people who will have to do it for them. But I think, on average, back to the social work element, I think the job there is to empower. And when it comes to things like that, if it’s an affordability issue, I think that’s a policy question for the House here. We could make the decision and say if milk is too expensive and you’ve got kids under your care and you’re getting social help, then you should get a little extra money. To me, that’s the right approach. It’s just about the philosophy.
Mr. Chairman, the next issue I’d like to touch on, and of course I’ll have more comments when we get to the page, but the next area I’d like to touch upon is, hopefully the Department of Education will soon start to put on its radar and agenda to develop junior kindergarten. As sort of cited in some manner by my previous speaker Mr. Krutko, early childhood education is very important and eventually some government is going to have to start to decide that it’s better to invest up front than it is to invest in cleaning up the mess. If we can give kids the best opportunity before then... I mean, how many times have we heard the old adage that, you know, an educated child is the best investment we could ever make? I think people are starting to have a higher expectation of services they can have and, certainly, give their kids the best start as possible when it comes to an education background.
Mr. Chairman, the other element to providing a strong base to things like early childhood education and day homes is stabilized funding. I’ve heard from a number of parents that that continues to be a phenomenal problem. What they would like to see is the fact that stabilized funding reflects the true costs of what these organizations need to cover in order to keep the lights on, keep the oil in the furnace burning and making sure that the wages of the staff are paid, because quite ultimately, the way the system is built, it’s got an element of base funding and I’ll give it that, but the problem is it’s the top-up based on attendance. Well, if you go to any day home, they want their money up front and if your child misses, your child misses. The fact is, they’ve still got to pay that light bill, they’ve still got to keep the heat on, they’ve still got to pay the staff. And when they stop paying the staff, well, then it’s just sort of a tailspin into destruction. That’s how these places fall apart and how are we really helping then. Then it’s emergency money if we can keep the debtors off. Then we have people who can’t make their rent because they couldn’t get paid and the day home administrator or the early childhood facility had to make choices that they probably didn’t want to make or they didn’t pay the power bill and the power bill company now…
So it’s an endless cycle for these folks. I think if the department will start seeing the way, and I’m convinced they know where the solution is, and I’m providing it if they’re listening, and the solution, I think, is that we provide base funding that’s reflective of cost. It’s the over and above sense of things like the profit that a day home may provide or an early childhood facility would provide. That’s the gap we make them do the extra earning for when it comes to head count. Like Four Plus or the Aboriginal Head Start, we don’t want to tie their funding to unstable, variable circumstances. That’s the biggest trouble we have in life. It seems like, oh, we need to find money. Well, we can never tackle the fixed costs. We can only tackle the variable costs. But it’s like we’re paying these facilities... Like, everything’s based on a variable cost and they can’t cover their fixed costs the way we’re paying them.
Mr. Chairman, although time is running out -- and I assure the Minister and his very dedicated staff over here that I will raise other issues as we get to the particular pages -- there are two other areas I’d like to quickly touch on. One is arts funding. I try to raise arts from time to time, but, of course, there are always pressing issues that seem to supersede one over another. But I’d certainly like to see our government address the film industry in a way that shows them the respect. I think we’re on our third type of series on national television and this is a phenomenal push forward about what type of market could be opening up here in the Northwest Territories. When they’re filming Ice Pilots, if I have my facts correct that have been forwarded to me, is they’re not using northern people that could be doing the work. I think the diamond in the rough of this opportunity really is that it’s an untapped area. It could be a new area for expansion and a new area of promise when it comes to developing opportunities, developing a new market, getting people working, creating economic interest, whether it’s tourism or whatnot.
Mr. Chairman, I see I only have a couple seconds left on the clock, so I’ll just say that I would like to speak to it later when I have more time about my concern about the transfer of public housing administration back to the housing authority. As I said several weeks ago, I always thought it was an administrative problem that we never fully transferred over and that’s where my view of the issues were. Mr. Chairman, I’ll leave it at that for now and I’ll provide more details as we get to the individual pages. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. If there are no more general comments, I will go to the Minister for a response to the general comments. Minister Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, there are a lot of important comments that have been initiated here that we will certainly continue to work with. In the Sahtu region, of course, the high school grads have been brought to our attention. We do provide tools for the students to continue on with their high school and also post-secondary. There are other options that are available to the students that we’ve talked about in the past, but we will continue to provide the funding to the school boards in that respective region and other regions as well.
At the same time, Mr. Chair, there is a concern about students returning to the community and not working, but there are productive choices that they have to make as well. The community offers courses that they could certainly take on in order to further upgrade their schooling if that’s required. That’s the area that we continue to improve on at the community level.
Income support, of course, there is a 20 percent increase in caseloads due to the fact that the economy is on the downturn. Two years back, as the Member alluded to, everything was good. Yes, it was when we were having high employment in the communities and so forth, but lately the economy is going down. At the same time, we are investing in various areas such as summer employment for small communities. That will certainly capture some attention in the small communities. So I think that certainly is a worthwhile initiative.
On the trades investment that the Member for Sahtu has touched on, we are investing heavily in trades. Since the budget address, and even this time around in trades and labour market training, approximately $600,000 that we’ve initiated. That will be before us to discuss further. So we need to be prepared. We need to have our own people with the right tools to enter the workforce, whether it be the diamond mines, the pipeline, or even our government, the community governments and municipalities. Those are the areas we continue to provide training dollars and working with other partners as well.
Also the traditional food has been addressed here. It could be part of the nutritious food items. There was a discussion on the milk subsidy and the food basket and so forth. That is an area of interest to us that we continue to work with. We will discuss it further when we talk about nutrition, the $4,000 that has been allocated. Mr. Chairman, I can certainly elaborate more at that level.
The teachers, the funds are not adequate has been addressed. Yes, our wish is to have more teachers in all schools, all 49 schools that we have in the Northwest Territories. We would love to have more teachers, but it is a challenge, Mr. Chairman. As the Member alluded to, it could cause several million dollars per region or more, but we do provide funding to deliver those teaching instructions at the community level in the regions. At the same time, on the side, we are developing plans through the Aboriginal Student Achievement Initiative. There will certainly be some initiatives coming out of that. We have already initiated some of them to deal with the enrolment issue, because aboriginal student achievement covers a vast variety of challenges that are before us in all communities. I am looking forward to them, Mr. Chairman. They all come out of the committee’s report.
Again, the elders in school, the Member has addressed this to my attention. We are collectively working closely with other organizations and businesses or even organizations at the community level if they could take on the elders so there is no impact on their pension. Those are options that we are currently working with. It looks very positive. Definitely it will be part of the next business planning cycle. I want to plant a seed. I know the Member is getting impatient, but we want to do this even before this Assembly is over and done with.
Definitely that is my commitment to this House, that I want to work with the organizations so they could take it on and by all means to satisfy us and if the organization is satisfied, then we will go that avenue.
Mr. Chairman, aboriginal language, the funds, the Member spoke to the lapse. Those are the areas that we will continue to monitor. It is the language groups that we work with, as I indicated earlier today in the House. There needs to be collaboration and also consistent meetings that need to take place. Fortunately, it has been happening. We need to set our targets, our objectives, our priorities. We will continue to strengthen that within our department, to work with the language board to expedite the application process and whatnot. Mr. Chairman, that is a concern to me as well. I am glad the Member is raising that issue.
The public housing transfer has been in the process. Clearly, we want to have a smooth transition. The rent scale that has been discussed here, of course, is a housing area. We have the Minister responsible for Housing who will be taking over that, but we will be working closely together on the transfer of the program.
The community learning centres, of course, there is great news about the 33 communities. They will be getting upgrades through the federal funding, but those are areas that we are continuing to focus in all communities. Some community learning centres are fairly old and some are capacity issues. Mr. Chairman, we are continuing to work closely with the Aurora College, the college themselves, because it is under their leadership, the board of governors. So that has been identified already and we will continue to work with that.
The library funds were addressed for Fort Simpson, that consideration of being a regional centre. Mr. Chairman, we do have funding that has been allocated to the communities. Simpson is one of them. We do have annual funding that is allocated to Fort Simpson. We continue to increase the funds as it looks now. Mr. Chairman, the areas that we can certainly look further into, the Simpson and other community libraries, because they questioned about the regional status. I think it is up for discussion.
Enhancing education in small communities, on-line courses have been addressed. That is the area that we are certainly very interested in delivering more, broadening our Internet service capability into the 33 communities that we service. We have an educational system that we want to have a separate system, but working with TSC, as well, on how we can improve in those areas. It can have the capability of on-line programs in communities such as Paulatuk or Tsiigehtchic in the small, isolated communities. So we are really pushing for that, Mr. Chairman.
There is also a question about the grade 8s and grade extension, the boarding, students to board in different locations. This is an area that we need to work with the education council because... Then again, we did provide the money, the funds. The Member discussed with similar to Fort Smith leadership program. It is an independently run business that has been initiated. It is a very successful program. By all means, if other regions are willing to take it on as independent sort of like a business run, we will certainly be looking at possibly contributing that towards similar to the Fort Smith leadership program.
Mr. Chairman, the elders callback has been addressed. It is not the first time Members are addressing that with us. We are fully aware of it. The Member is right about our Justice department looking into it further. If it is business arm funding or is it through land claims? Is there a cost or is it income exempt? So those are areas that we are exploring as we speak. This will be brought forward to the Cabinet for further discussion. Mr. Chairman, just so the Member is aware, we are not ignoring this area.
The social work goes back to Income Support. I am not sure where that is coming from. We do have income support client service officers that are very dedicated and committed to providing the valuable services that they continue to provide and we have done a lot of work in this area. We continue to improve in those areas, Mr. Chairman. There are other challenging tasks that are before us at times, but we deal with this on a case-by-case basis.
The junior kindergarten has been brought up before, investment up front, and also the stabilizing funding. Those are the discussions that we have had in the past with other Members as well. We met with certain organizations. They threw that at us, as well, where we should fund them to offset the cost of certain cost factors, I guess, not to depend on enrolment. But they are under some circumstances, where some of the facilities will be fully utilized, maxed out in the capacity, but at times there will be one or two students in a centre or none. Do we continue to provide the funding to that organization if there’s no attendance? So those are the discussions that we need to have as we go forward.
Arts development, the tourism that the Members talked about regarding the pilots through Buffalo, we’ve increased our funding over the years and ITI also has various pots of funds to subsidize some of these initiatives. So, Mr. Chair, we’ll continue to highlight that as we go forward. So those are just a summary of what the Members have addressed as their opening comments. Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Are there any more general comments? If not, what’s the wish of committee? Detail. If we can defer you to consideration under detail. Again we’re on page 10 of 7. From there we’ll move forward in regard to department summary. So if I can have you turn to 10-8. Does the committee agree to defer department summary, operations expenditure summary?
Agreed.
Agreed. With that, information item, page 10-8, Education, Culture and Employment, infrastructure investment summary, information item.
Agreed.
Agreed. Page 10-9, Education, Culture and Employment, information item, revenue summary. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a quick question. Under early learning and child care I see we have revenues of $272,000. I wonder if I could just get an explanation of that. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister of Education.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. That $272,000 is in line with Human Resource and Social Development of Canada funding to support the Early Learning and Child Care Program. Mahsi.
Mr. Bromley. Page 9-10, information item, revenue summary.
Agreed.
Page 10-9.
Agreed.
Page 10-10, active position summary, information item. Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I had a question with regard to the increase in staff. It shows we’re going from 184 staff persons, indeterminate full-time in ‘09-10 to 191 in ‘10-11. If the Minister could advise where these staff are going and what they’re going to be doing as well. Thank you.
Minister of Education.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. There is an added position, assistant curator position as part of collection and exhibit renewal at the museum, website and multimedia coordinator position also added at the museum. Another position added as an aboriginal student achievement coordinator to deal with the Aboriginal Student Achievement Initiative. Another position is an administrative officer for an aboriginal language position as the Official Language Implementation Initiative. Mr. Chair, another position as an SFA loan officer position through the Student Financial Assistance Initiative. Another position, coordinator position as part of the Alberta Achievement Test that’s been highlighted. There’s one part-time PY as part of the Early Childhood Small Communities Initiative and one adjusted full-time immigration administrative position, South Slave, one part-time position, PY, now funded as full-time as Early Child Community Initiatives and another part-time Early Childhood Initiatives. So those are the positions that are before us, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Minister. Next on the list I have Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to ask a question on the active position summary. Looking at last year at 184 and then this year there’s 191, that’s an increase of seven. Obviously, or the total actually is an increase of nine positions. Given the fact that ECE is transferring their responsibility for social housing back to the Housing Corporation -- and I’ve said this before -- I think there has to obviously be some sensitivity to the staff that were hired four years ago. I believe it was 11 or 12 staff and it might have gotten even up to 14 staff that were hired to deliver that Social Housing Policy through ECE and Income Security and I’m just wondering what is the HR plan for those positions and how come we’re not seeing any of that reflected in the budget. Thank you.
Minister of Education.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. The reason it’s not reflected in this budget is we’re still working out the logistics of transferring those positions. So we’re at the development stages, development plans for the actual transfer of the program and also there’s going to be PYs attached to it. So those are still in the preliminary stages as we speak. Mahsi.
Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That’s fair enough. I appreciate the response from the Minister and look forward to seeing that information when it comes available. Thank you.
Thank you. Page 10-10, information item, active position summary. Agreed?
Agreed.
Moving on, page 10-13, Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, directorate. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Another, hopefully, quick question here. I see the TSC chargebacks have increased by somewhat over 50 percent and I’m just wondering if that’s a one-time thing, if there’s an explanation for that. Thank you.
Minister of Education.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. Those TSC chargeback costs is a target adjustment required to reflect the new rate structure and to fund the growth in the network, Internet and DCN, usage costs and the implementation of the Strategic Security Initiative. So those are the cost factors. Mahsi.
That probably does it, but I’m curious about the security side of things. We can probably spend as much as we want to on the security and I’m wondering is that something new or is that just a tune-up of an existing program? Thank you.
Mr. Devitt.
Mr. Chair, my understanding, from discussions with the TSC, is that the security aspect, although very important, is a very small portion of the total financial cost and that most of this is due to increased usage costs. Thank you.
Ms. Bisaro.
