Well, our budget has gone up each year, recognizing the fact, again, that the money is declining and, as I pointed out to the Member in response to the first question, we are taking steps to try and cut back on the O and M part of it by improving the quality of our units, so we’d have less O and M funding. As far as the resources go, we are seeing a small increase just about every year, but it’s not quite enough to deal with the money we will be losing. I mean, to date, I think we’ve been out $5.8 million, but by the time the money actually declines I think we’re going to be out $348 million in O and M funding. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister outline for us any initiatives that involve the local housing organizations in the sense that have they engaged the local housing organizations in this initiative?
Mr. Speaker, we’re always engaging with the local housing organizations and listening to what they have, because a lot of them know best what goes on in their community. I mean, they’ve identified some units that they can move and also improving the operation and maintenance of each unit, trying to cut back on the costs. So we are working quite closely with a lot of the LHOs and the district offices to identify ways where we can make some savings, again recognizing the fact that unless we get a change of heart from the federal government, we’re going to continue to have declining funding each and every year. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I just want to follow up on my Member’s statement. I indicated my support for treaty rights to be recognized by our government in terms of hunting caribou in the banned zone and the Bathurst herd. I don’t think anybody wants to see a return to the levels of harvest that had happened, but there is a question of subsistence hunting. I would like to ask the Minister about that. Will he consider subsistence hunting? I’m not talking about lifting the entire ban in this hunting zone, but allowing subsistence harvesting to our treaty people in those areas. Thank you.
Thank you. The honourable Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The herd is in such significant decline that the information, all the science tells us that it cannot sustain any further harvest; that if we have any harvest, there’s a good chance that it will cease to exist as a herd within the next couple of years. We, as well, recognize treaty rights and rights to harvest, and we have come up with funds and resources and an opportunity to work with the Tlicho and the Yellowknives and the Akaitcho, that they can harvest outside. The Bluenose-East and the Ahiak can sustain some controlled harvest that will allow us to make sure that the affected communities have some access. We’ve also adjusted the bison tags to give more access there. But the herd, the reason it’s being protected is because it is our opinion and judgment, based on the extensive work done, it cannot sustain any harvest without jeopardizing its survival. Thank you.
Yesterday I spoke about an opportunity for consultation at the meetings in Fort Simpson. There was missed opportunity. Has the Minister met with the impacted First Nations’ groups this week at all, or does he plan to meet with them at all to discuss the very, very important issue of treaty rights and subsistence harvesting for our aboriginal people? Because this ban, this law will put our aboriginal people in jail and that’s not what we’re looking for, Mr. Speaker. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, the ban will protect the herd. There is opportunity to harvest outside the banned area that will allow the subsistence hunting, to allow communities to have access to caribou. I would point out that in the whole North Slave region there is the area where there is the ban, everywhere else there’s hunting only for aboriginal people. The focus is to protect and to keep the survival of the herd. We recognize and we can accommodate the issue of the hunting and access with the arrangements and resources that we have offered up. There have been, and continue to be, extensive meetings being held. There are meetings all this week going on in the Tlicho. We provided committee yesterday with a detailed briefing and a list of all the meetings that were held. I met as recently as last Friday with Grand Chief Bill Erasmus and the Yellowknives and a couple dozen of their members as well. Thank you.
Does the Minister plan to meet with the Yellowknives or any of the impacted First Nations’ groups in the near future, today or tomorrow or the weekends coming, like, as soon as possible? Because this is a very controversial issue and impacts not only those First Nations but the precedent that it sets for all First Nations across our Territory. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, I indicated I met last Friday for two hours with Chief Bill Erasmus and Chief Tsetta and Chief Sangris and a roomful of their members. I’ve had discussions with the Member for Weledeh. He is meeting or has met with the chiefs and I’ve committed that we will… He’s asked if I will meet with the chiefs. I’ve indicated as soon as we can arrange the time that we will. We’re prepared to do that, myself and the deputy, to have any further discussions to look at how do we preserve the purpose of the ban, protect the herd and continue to work with the impacted communities so that they have access to some subsistence hunting. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Your final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. In all cases of reduced populations, maybe be it fisheries, treaty rights are always upheld. In this case, I’d like to ask the Minister not to lift the ban but to allow treaty people to hunt at a subsistence level at a minimal cost to the herd, but at least continue their treaty right to hunt and fish on our land. Thank you.
We have committed and are working with the Tlicho and we are prepared to work with the Yellowknives to make sure that they have access to subsistence hunting. We have not said you can’t hunt caribou. We have not said that we are taking away that right to hunt. What we are saying in this very broad area is that there is a herd in the middle, the Bathurst herd, which its numbers have diminished so dramatically that they cannot stand harvesting or they will cease to exist. There are other opportunities. We are working with communities to say we can continue to have subsistence harvest in those areas while still doing what everybody wants, which is protect the future of the herd. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I am convinced that the Minister has faced this decision, the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, for a hunting ban of caribou on careful and thorough consideration of the information available on the caribou. However, my understanding is that there was only one meeting with the Yellowknives Dene First Nation, a meeting on the 1st of December, in which the Yellowknives Dene expressed disagreement with the ban. I am also aware that, in contrast, there were repeated meetings with the Tlicho and, of course, the Wekeezhii Renewable Resource Board through the same time frame and earlier. Relying on the Wekeezhii Renewable Resource Board process and timetables does not honour the Yellowknives Dene rights to consultation and involvement and decision making.
Given that this is an area where, in the chief drawing in each territory, there is no co-management board and you would think there would, therefore, be a focus of consultations with that particular group of people, why was there not a focus on meaningful consultation with the Yellowknives Dene so they could have a partnership in the development of these restrictions? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There were, in October for example, open group meetings that the Yellowknives were invited to but did not attend. There were meetings that we did have at the regional leaders’ meetings. As well, we did have a discussion about the caribou and we have to separate two issues here. The issue -- and we recognize it and I acknowledged that in one of my previous replies -- is that the Wekeezhii process is critical but that is only part of the process to look at an overall management plan for the Bathurst herd, as the Member well knows. We have to consult fully with the Akaitcho, the Yellowknives, the Northwest Territories Metis Nation and other stakeholders as well as the aboriginal governments. In the case of this emergency interim measures, there was a very compressed time frame. We did a lot of work and then we shared the whole list of work that was done with the Members, trying to consult as much as possible about the need for an interim ban because of the slippage in the process set out by the Wekeezhii board. We believe that we could stand the test set out by Sparrow about our…have we hit the right criteria and have we done the right things to respond to his very specific short-term emergency measures. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, given that there is no land claim settlement or binding co-management process with the Yellowknives Dene First Nation Chief Drygeese region and that the Yellowknives Dene stated its opposition before the ban was announced, what authority does GNWT have to implement this ban? Thank you.
The enabling authority would come under the Northwest Territories Act. Two sections come to mind, 16 and 18 with subsequent amendments to 18, as well as the Wildlife Act which flows under the Northwest Territories Act. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, when the GNWT assumed responsibility for the management of this herd, they inherited from aboriginal residents a healthy population of caribou. Yet, over the last 20 years we have seen this catastrophic decline and its management practices and efforts have failed. The Yellowknives Dene have indicated that if the situation requires, they would reduce their harvest to one caribou per person, say per hunter, per year. So they are ready and willing to engage and apply their authority to conserve caribou. Did the government try to bring them into the determination of hunting restrictions in an engaged, authoritative and responsible partner? Mahsi.
Mr. Speaker, we worked with the Yellowknives to look at the issue of...because there wasn’t going to be the report, the Wekeezhii report, or any other plan for the harvest restrictions which we announced back in late September were going to needed because of the draconian drop in numbers, that we would need to be put those restrictions in place. We have worked with them. The issue of the ban, the focus has been the need for the ban and what mitigating measures and accommodating measures we can put in place to offset the lack of access to this specific area recognizing that there was still an ability to subsistence hunt to the east and to the west of the no-hunting zone. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would suggest that had there been meaningful engagement, the Yellowknives Dene have the authority and would have been a meaningful partner in implementing the action required. My final question is: what plans does the government have for coming out of this ban with a new and even revolutionary approach to ensuring future cooperation that is effective and prevents such new confrontations? Mahsi.
I would be interested in the Member’s definition of a revolutionary approach before I could answer fully that specific question, but I can indicate to the Member that we have already started the discussions and the planning to bring together the chairs of the co-management boards and representatives where there are no co-management boards to look at the overlap areas, to look at, as we pointed out yesterday in our presentation, the decline of herds all across the Northwest Territories and how do we come to an understanding similar to what’s being attempted with the Porcupine Caribou herd, some understanding between all the government parties and signatories as to the steps to be taken when numbers are in decline and what response does a decline require when a certain point is hit. For example, the Porcupine Caribou Harvest Management Plan has a trigger of 45,000 animals and it is a similar size right now to what the Bathurst was in 2006. If it hits 45,000, the automatic trigger is there’s no hunting for anybody of any of the Porcupine herd. That has been negotiated and has been worked on now for many years. We have to come to those kinds of understanding among ourselves, because there’s a significant overlap of almost every herd. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is being directed to the Premier because I think we’re going to have to have a political decision or political involvement especially from the Executive Council to resolve the outstanding issue in Tsiigehtchic of not having a health provider. I think we’re going on seven years now, yet this has been raised by previous Ministers, it’s been raised by Gwich’in assemblies, it’s been raised at the Beaufort Leaders’ Meeting, motions have been passed. I think, Mr. Speaker, there is a time and place to end the discussion and find a solution to the problem.
Mr. Speaker, I think it’s the fundamental basic rights with regard to services for people regardless of whether it’s justice programs, health care programs or housing. We have to ensure that we have basic services being provided. Could the Premier personally intervene for promising a nurse for Tsiigehtchic? I was promised, prior to this House, that there was one going to be there February 1st. I told the chief in Tsiigehtchic that. I told the community at the previous Beaufort Leaders’ Meeting. The Minister stated she’s still working on it. So I’d like to ask the Premier if he would personally intervene with his Cabinet colleagues to find a solution to this problem, so we can see a nurse in Tsiigehtchic February 1st.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I know the concern for the Member. It’s been raised, whether it is in this forum here in the Assembly or to provide services, necessary services in the community of Tsiigehtchic. Thank you.
Thank you. I believe we spend some $300 million on health care in the Northwest Territories. We give those dollars to health authorities to manage on behalf of this government to provide programs and services for people. If they are not doing that, this government has to find a mechanism. If health care services are not being provided to those communities, that those dollars earmarked for those communities be clawed back by the Executive Council and directly administered through the Executive Council to those communities and bypass the health board, because they are not doing their job in regard to the residents of Tsiigehtchic.
Thank you. There definitely is opportunity. The Member himself has raised earlier in his line of questions the meetings that are held with the Beaufort-Delta leaders and the Gwich’in leaders around the services. The Department of Health and Social Services is in attendance along with representatives of the Beaufort-Delta Health and Social Services Authority and we would work with that leadership to see what can be done. The area board authority is one that this government has tried to address through an initiative of board reform. That met with significant resistance of members in the public. So we pulled that back. We know the area of health services authorities, for example, there needs to be a newly established relationship with the authorities across the Northwest Territories.
The Minister of Health and Social Services has come forward to the standing committee and the Assembly and I believe during her opportunity with the budget talking about the Foundation for Change and looking at how we will try to reinvigorate our relationship with boards across the Northwest Territories. If we feel there is and if the Minister feels there is enough that has occurred that we can move to remove a board and put in a representative of the department to run the operations in that region, that is something that can also be taken into consideration, but that decision is not taken lightly. Thank you.
I request the Premier to do an audit on the Inuvik health board dealing with the community of Tsiigehtchic from the information that was provided by the Minister in which in one year they made 20 visits and they were there for 120 hours. For me, that’s unacceptable. I’d like to know from the Premier if he can tell me exactly how many dollars are being expended on the health operations in the community of Tsiigehtchic out of that $300 million that we’ve spent on behalf of this government, how much is really being spent in communities and not operating a health board, which goes in a deficit every year, year after year after year and using dollars that should be expended in our communities for health care services and not being expended where it shouldn’t? Thank you.
Thank you. I will speak to the Minister of Health and Social Services. With that request, of course that requires us to work with the authority in place as they would have that type of information when it comes to the dollars that are allocated, what was spent and how it was done, but I do know that the hours that the Member talked about was doctor visits in the community. There were, during the breakup seasons of the winter road and community visits by nurses, in the neighbourhood of almost 100 days of nurse time in the community. But I’ll get the appropriate information and see what we can do on that basis. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. Your final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe this does demand a political resolution. It has to be resolved by this Cabinet. I’d like to ask the Premier to maybe have this on his Cabinet agenda for tomorrow morning’s Cabinet meeting. Hopefully he can look deeper into this, because I believe this is not the only community that’s under this type of threat by way of not having services being provided. There are other communities throughout the Territories that find themselves in similar situations. So with that, Mr. Speaker, I look forward to hearing the Premier’s response with his Cabinet colleagues and hopefully find a resolution to this. Thank you.
Thank you. One of the things we do on a daily basis while we’re in session is talk about the issues that have arisen from question period and look at what is required to either get information or deal with the issue. This, the request for the type of information the Member has asked, is not going to be dealt with in a matter of days. It’s going to take some time to get all of that information. As well, the Member has raised there needs to be a comparison done to communities of similar size remote communities as to how we’ve delivered that service. We know, Mr. Speaker, the issue of health care, justice, education, all of those services in our smaller communities are a matter of concern that is raised and that is why we’ve put together in working with Members on the Rural Remote Communities Initiative. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I also want to raise some concerns with our health board, as Mr. Krutko has just talked about one of his communities. Mr. Speaker, in the last couple of weeks, actually the last couple of days and even this morning I received a phone call from one of my constituents and they were having some serious concerns in regard to the operation of our health board in terms of the professionalism that the staff at our regional health board has towards some of our residents in the Sahtu. I wanted to ask the Minister in terms of a type of review or look at some of these types of concerns that our residents are raising now in regard to our own health board. Is there a type of mechanism to look at the performance evaluation audits to see where we can head off some of these critical issues that are affecting the health care in our region?
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe most of our health authorities try to do their best to deliver their programs and services on a daily basis, but there are times when questions like this come up. The way our board structure is set up, the boards of all health and social services authorities get their funding from the government, but they’re quite independent in the way they deliver programs and services. As a part of our initiatives -- and the Minister of Finance mentioned it in his budget speech -- I have been working with the committee on the Foundation for Change and part of the Foundation for Change speaks to improved governance, financial management, accountability for programs and services so that we are getting the maximum benefits from our investments and that there is a shared understanding of actual costs and benefits to the system. So one of the large tasks we have undertaken is to define better our financial and accountability arrangement by way of agreement, and that was in Minister Miltenberger’s budget today. This is a new exercise. We want to make it clear to the authority exactly what is expected, and, of course, we are working with the authorities so that they agree to this arrangement, because we see from Member Yakeleya’s question as well as Member Krutko that when we spend $326 million this year, that we want to see accountability and the results on the ground that both the authorities and we understand. I know authorities are working hard, but it may not be exactly what we set out to do and under the current system we don’t have that monitoring that we would like to do. Thank you.
Thank you. The Minister has made reference to the document she’ll be discussing. I’m looking forward to seeing the result of the Foundation for Change with the Minister in terms of going forward in terms of establishing... (recording difficulties)
...with the Member. We toured all of the communities in Sahtu. Leadership did speak to us about a working relationship and interaction with the local health centres as well as health board. I’ll do my part to make sure that our board and our health care delivery system is accountable to our people. At the same time, I did encourage the local leadership and Grand Chief Andrew that there is... At any time when the community leadership have concerns or questions about the services or lack of, or good or bad or the ugly, anything, I think health boards and health centres will benefit from that input and everybody should be encouraged to communicate to them. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, I want to say, on behalf of the Sahtu people, that the Minister of Health and Social Services has been the only Minister that has done a tour with me in the Sahtu of...
Ahhh.
...so much that she has come twice to the Sahtu. I want to say that the people appreciate her to come and sit in and talk about these important issues. Mr. Speaker, we have some complaints, some serious complaints that are very serious to people in Deline, people in Fort Good Hope, people in Colville Lake. I want to ask the Minister when these complaints come forward, sometimes we have a backlash from the regional health boards in terms of staff members saying things that shouldn’t be said to the people in our communities. Would the Minister see that stuff like this doesn’t happen with our health board? People are afraid to come forward to launch or even to talk to me regarding health concerns, because sometimes they get feedback that isn’t very good from our health board.
