Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. That’s all the questions I have for right now.
Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a number of comments which have already been made, so I’ll just highlight them. I don’t expect answers. I think they’ve been answered already, but I wanted to point out some concerns which I have.
We just discussed housing for seniors. My concern is housing for seniors — I don’t know a better way to put it — who have money. I believe there needs to be — probably more so in Yellowknife than in any other community — some sort of housing source for seniors who have a certain amount of money. There needs to be some sort of a subsidy for seniors who can afford their own place but can’t afford the full cost of it.
I am concerned about the lack of housing for disabled persons, particularly those who have a family, who have children. Yellowknife certainly has units right now for disabled persons, but they don’t accommodate somebody who has a family.
I am concerned as well about the success or lack of for the transfer of the Rental Subsidy Program over to Education, Culture and Employment. I appreciate that we’ve been getting regular updates from both the Housing Corp and from ECE, and I hope this will continue because there’s still a lot of concern out there on the part of residents. I am a little dismayed at the reductions in the repairs and enhancement programs. I feel very strongly that that’s one of the areas that we need to enhance, not to reduce, and as has been mentioned earlier, repairs for seniors…. That program, as well, needs to be extended or made easier to get at.
Something that hasn’t been mentioned yet but which is a concern for me is the reduction of the internal audit function of the Housing Corp. I understand that these two positions will be transferred over to the Audit Bureau, but it means that the Housing Corporation will no longer have their own auditors to perform an internal audit function.
I’m particularly concerned that the corporation is losing its ability to monitor the local housing authorities and to monitor that they are adequately applying the policies, which I can’t get hold of, and that the programs and services are being applied and being doled out in a fair and proper manner. This was something that was noted by the Auditor General, and I appreciate the Housing Corp has advised that they will continue to do this. But without specific dedicated auditors for the internal audit function, I see it as a bit of a problem. So most of those don’t need answers; probably all of them don’t need answers, but I did want to highlight my concerns.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ll take the direction from Ms. Bisaro. The one issue that has come up that hasn’t yet been touched on is the internal audit function. I’ll just ask Mr. Polakoff to briefly explain the rationale.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Polakoff.
Thank you, Mr. Chair and I thank Ms. Bisaro for the question. The internal auditor positions of the Housing Corporation, as Ms. Bisaro already indicated, had initially been identified for moving to the GNWT Audit Bureau. Over the last several weeks, however, we have made some internal changes within the Housing Corporation. We’ve been able to retain the services of those two individuals as a result of some internal shifting of positions. So on the one hand, we have not lost their skill sets, which we think are very important. On the other hand, they are in fact doing different jobs, and we are in the process of sorting through that now.
On the issue of the internal audit it’s important to understand that we made this point with the Auditor General insofar as we recognize the need for internal audit. But we already recognize the need based on the recommendations from the OAG to provide more targeted services to our districts and to our LHOs. Through the reorganization of the Housing Corporation we have done that. It is our hope to ensure that we don’t have as many audit issues identified at the back end and, rather, that we deal with them at the front end prior to them becoming issues. We have got a bit of a combined approach here. The other issue as well to remember is that LHOs are not losing any services from audit as they are done privately.
Thank you, Mr. Polakoff. Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. In regard to the issue around individuals who may have been evicted for one reason or another, especially who have families and children involved…. As a government we still have units in our communities that may not be perfect in the sense of a modern house, but the Housing Corporation still has these units. They still maintain them. I think that everything should be done to deal with the homeless issue to have some sort of transitional housing or shelter in communities. Like the Member for Nunakput tried to state, where do these people go once they are evicted from housing? Housing still has units in our communities that could accommodate that family. It might not be as good a dwelling as they had just left, but at least it puts a roof over their heads.
I think that as a corporation and as the Department of ECE, dealing with the homeless issue, we spend a lot of money dealing with institutions here in Yellowknife. We have transitional housing. We have the youth facility here where there is homelessness money being expended, but when it comes to our communities, it seems like there is very little being done to deal with the homelessness issue. You might not see people sleeping on the streets or sleeping under buildings or in the doorways, but I think it is real. It’s there in our communities. A lot of these people have been evicted from housing for one reason or another. Most of it has to do with substance abuse or drugs. But for these people it’s still a problem.
As a corporation we do have to somehow…. I can’t say forgive and forget, but these people, despite arrears or whatnot, are still citizens of the Northwest Territories. They should have an opportunity to have some sort of means of maintaining some lifestyle by being able to provide for their family members. I know I raised the issue previously. We should have designated one or two units in the communities, which may be the old SHAG units that basically are over 35 years old anyways. We are either going to mothball them or get rid of them. So maybe make arrangements with that individual and Social Services that they work with that individual to — they won’t pay the costs — at least provide some means of housing for these individuals regardless of the condition rating of that unit.
We have to do something by way of homelessness issues in our communities. What we are seeing are problems with people in arrears and also problems of people with substance abuse. These people are still citizens or residents of our communities, and we still have to find ways to accommodate them. In the larger centres we do have organizations like the Salvation Army or the drop-in centre for youth that are providing means for these individuals to accommodate them to sleep at night and put a roof over their heads. I think that we should find some system to deal with that in isolated, smaller communities where this government does have surplus housing that isn’t being used, basically accommodate these people in the interim until they work out their problems with Social Services and whatnot.
I’d like to know: has the Minister, as Minister responsible for housing and as a member of that homelessness group with other Ministers, ever considered that as an option to deal with the homelessness issues in communities, knowing that we do have these units? They might not be perfect, but at least that puts a roof over people’s heads, a home for people who have children and whatnot, when you can’t just throw them out on the street.
Mr. Chairman, we have a small settlement homelessness fund that’s been in place for the last number of years as well. We stand ready to work with communities with whatever housing stock may be available, providing there is a group or some agency in the community that is prepared to play the lead in terms of dealing with the hard-to-house homelessness issue, where there are addiction issues and other social issues that are probably at play in terms of the lifestyle of the individual. We have the two approaches. The opportunity is there. It requires the community to step forward, either through an inter-agency group or through the hamlet or the community, to play a lead role, but we stand ready to work with communities in terms of trying to identify infrastructure, if it exists in the community.
I’m wondering, does the corporation — and we do have a committee of Ministers who deal with the homelessness issue — have a comprehensive policy or procedure in place to deal with homelessness in small communities? When we know there are ways that we can accommodate where we may not have….
Excuse me, Mr. Hawkins. I’m asking a question of the Minister. Did you get it, Mr. Minister?
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I know there is a committee of social envelope Ministers. The committee that looks after the fund for small communities is currently working on their terms of reference and looking at moving forward to deal with the broader scope to address some of the issues that the Member has raised.
Another issue we have is that with a lot of these individuals the government pays for them to travel home from the larger centres. They’ll pay someone who is homeless in Yellowknife to get back to their home community. Under your existing policy you have to be a resident for three months, but the government is the one that moves these people back to their home community in which they were homeless to begin with. So once they get back to the community, there’s no way that these individuals can be provided housing because of the residency clause.
Have you looked at the residency clause for individuals? You or Social Services or whatnot may have paid for those individuals to go back to their home communities and not realized that these individuals won’t be able to access housing once they get there because of the policies that we have for residence.
I’d just like to know: have we looked at the residency policy when it comes to people who may have left the community for less than a year or are being encouraged to go back to their home community through this reintegration of homeless people in the larger urban centres back to their home communities where there presently is a program for that? Is that something that the Minister is dealing with in the homelessness issue, or has contemplated or looked at it?
What are you doing with regard to waiving that residency clause for those individuals and residents who are from those communities? It’s very frustrating to know that these individuals are born and raised in these communities. They’re on the band list. They’re basically identified as that being their home communities. They’re registered under the land claim groups as that being their home community. But then these individuals go away for a short period of time, and when they get back to their home communities, they’re very frustrated by having to hear that they’re not a resident, yet that’s where they were born and raised and spent almost all their lives in that community. I think it degrades aboriginal people who have signed land claims and have settled in those land claim areas and had their rights applied to those geographical areas. I think as a government we have to live up to the land claim obligations, also realizing that these are land claim beneficiaries of those geographical areas.
I think what we’re doing is discriminating against individuals because they’re leaving those communities by stapling with them their residency clause. For these individuals, for them, home is where you find it, but more importantly, they ain’t gonna be buried anywhere else than in that home community.
So as a government have we ever looked at ensuring that the policies and procedures of the government are considered in light of the residency clause? People are being told: “Well, you go back to your home community. We’ll pay your way there.” But once you get there, you’re doubly jeopardized by having a residency clause thrown in your face. Has the department seriously looked at this matter in light of the concerns and issues that have been raised through your department?
Before we move on, noting the clock, I’ll let you respond to the question, Mr. Miltenberger, and then we’ll rise and report progress.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Clearly, if there is a repatriation circumstance and there’s a case planning function that involves other departments or other agencies, be it Health and Social Services or whoever it may be, we want to work as well with the community where the person’s being repatriated to.
As we work with the mandate for this new homelessness committee, that ability to make sure that we have a consistent approach that is not going to trip ourselves up as we move them from one community to another is one of the things that is going to be looked at. Thank you.
Can I have the report of the Committee of the Whole, please, Mr. Abernethy?
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Your committee has been considering Tabled Document 37-16(2), Main Estimates 2008–2009, Volumes 1 and 2, and Committee Report 7-16(2) and would like to report progress.
Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the Committee of the Whole be concurred with.
Motion carried.
Orders of the Day for Tuesday June 3, 2008, 1:30 p.m.
Prayer
Ministers’ Statements
Members’ Statements
Returns to Oral Questions
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Acknowledgements
Oral Questions
Written Questions
Returns to Written Questions
Replies to Opening Address
Petitions
Reports of Standing and Special Committees
Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills
Tabling of Documents
Notices of Motion
Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills
Motions
First Reading of Bills
Bill 9: Supplementary Appropriation Act, No.4, 2007–2008
Bill 10: An Act to Amend the Pharmacy Act
Second Reading of Bills
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
Bill 8: Appropriation Act, 2008–2009
CR 2-16(2): Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of the Report of the Auditor General on the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation Public Housing and Homeownership Programs
CR 3-16(2): Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of the 2006–2007 Annual Report of the Languages Commissioner
CR 4-16(2): Standing Committee on Priorities and Planning Report on the Review of the 2008–2009 Draft Main Estimates
CR 5-16(2): Standing Committee on Government Operations Report on the Review of the 2008–2009 Draft Main Estimates
CR 6-16(2): Standing Committee on Social Programs Report on the Review of the 2008–2009 Draft Main Estimates
CR 7-16(2): Standing Committee on Economic Development and Infrastructure Report on the Review of the 2008–2009 Draft Main Estimates
TD 37-16(2): Main Estimates 2008–2009, Volumes 1 and 2
Report of Committee of the Whole
Third Reading of Bills
Orders of the Day
Thank you, Madam Clerk. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until Tuesday, June 3, 2008, at 1:30 p.m.
The House adjourned at 6:07 p.m.
