Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, Operations Expenditure Summary: $6.5 million. Agreed?
Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, Activity Summary, Operations Expenditure Summary: $6.5 million, approved.
Page 2-97. Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that this committee strongly recommends that the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations take immediate action to develop a strategy to increase aboriginal employment in management positions, and across the department, too, at minimum representative levels and, further, that the department include the strategy within its departmental business plan to be considered in the fall of 2008.
The motion is in order. The motion is being circulated. On the motion, Mr. Beaulieu.
Aboriginal employment for all employees is low. It’s 31 per cent across the Territory. I think our objective is to try to achieve 51 per cent, according to the Affirmative Action Policy. For all employees, this department has an affirmative action number of 27 per cent.
The aboriginal percentage of employees in management is 17 per cent, or one position of the six senior management positions. The committee felt that it was vitally important in this department that we have some aboriginal management, and more aboriginal employees, as we’re engaging in our share of the negotiations across the Territories with the various aboriginal governments, various land claims, and governance negotiations that go on with the various aboriginal groups in the various regions. That’s it.
General comments. To the motion. Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I’ll be supporting this motion on a couple of principles. We often talk about sort of raising women in the context of senior management and making sure that they’re profiled appropriately and given fair opportunities.
This actually happens to be one of those departments where we have a deputy minister who is a female. It also falls down, though, in other areas, where it’s less admirable. It doesn’t reflect our general population and the distribution of representation.
So that was the principle of why I am supporting this motion. You would think, if anything, that the Department of Aboriginal Affairs would have more First Nations people in it, and it doesn’t. I would think that with the connection and interest in this issue, there must be a number of candidates out there that would be striving to be part of something that is bigger on the principles of why it exists.
Mr. Chairman, I wouldn’t want anyone to assume in any manner that I think we should fire people just to replace people. But I certainly think, in my view — and I am supporting this motion — that a strategy to highlight what I’m trying to say needs to be in place.
Again, it’s more of a representative view and an interest view. If I were to put my two cents in, I think what’s critical here, for me, is to see a plan to address this and to start making some tracks on this issue, because it just doesn’t reflect what I would think it should.
I’m going to leave it at that. So it at least gets on the record once, I’d like to ask for a recorded vote on this matter.
Sorry, one more thing: I think we can do better, and I know we can do better. I certainly know, in my experience, there are a lot of smart, educated, very leadership-style aboriginal people out there that would be willing to take on this opportunity to get into this role. I think they have every right, and we have every right to help promote that opportunity.
So, Mr. Chairman, with that, again, I’ll be supporting the motion, and I thank the committee.
To the motion. Mrs. Groenewegen.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I will also be supporting this motion.
We have a chance to review departments on an annual basis, and it became abundantly clear that the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations does not put much emphasis or priority on having key players in the department who are aboriginal.
As a government we absolutely chastise the federal government all the time when they appoint people to various positions that have to do with the management of our lands and resources. We constantly say that we have good and qualified candidates who are Northerners, who are indigenous, who are aboriginal Northerners, to manage these things, chair these kinds of things. Yet we as a government, in our own Department of Aboriginal Affairs, very obviously do not have aboriginal First Nations people in those positions of leadership in a department like this.
I have a problem with that. Also, I think it’s just sending the wrong message. It’s a contradiction, a glaring contradiction, of just about everything else that we say and stand for in this government, in terms of having our public service reflective of the territory itself. And certainly, it’s even more obvious in a department that’s called the Department of Aboriginal Affairs.
So I will be supporting the motion. I’ll speak to something else on another page, but I’ll be supporting the motion. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
To the motion. Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I’m going to speak in favour of the motion as well.
I’m not sure if it goes far enough. To be fair to Aboriginal Affairs, they’re not alone. I think the government, in its entirety, should be somewhat ashamed of itself for having…. And not just this government; previous governments too — let’s be fair. We’ve had an Affirmative Action Policy in place for a number of years, and if you look at senior management, aboriginal people in senior management positions in this government is 15 per cent. DAAIR’s not alone. It’s a problem that runs throughout the government.
Just to pick another department: ITI has 21 senior managers. Twenty-one senior managers at ITI, and one of them is aboriginal. So DAAIR is not alone. We’re moving this motion today to raise the issue.
And it isn’t just in management at Aboriginal Affairs; it’s also in Intergovernmental Relations. I don’t believe there’s…. There might be one aboriginal person in that whole section, and to me, it runs contrary to, I think, what we’re trying to do and what we’re trying to work with.
We’re trying to work with aboriginal governments. We should have aboriginal people in some of those positions. I know there are aboriginal employees in some of the negotiating areas in the department, but we can just do better, and I think that’s the message that we need to send out.
I know the other Ministers are listening to this too. We need to do better than 15 per cent in senior management in terms of aboriginal people. That’s not a very good statistic and not one to be proud of. Mahsi.
To the motion. Minister Roland.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I think this motion does at least…. I would have to agree somewhat with the Member for…
Kam Lake.
…Kam Lake, yes…
Laughter.
…on the fact that as the Government of the Northwest Territories, when you look at our stats, at the community and regional levels, we have good numbers. Headquarters itself has suffered, for a number of reasons, and it’s been through many of levels of government, or years of different governments, as the Member pointed out.
In fact, we recognize that the Affirmative Action Policy itself, government-wide, needs to be addressed. It’s been in place for many years, and we need to get to the next level.
I understand that the Minister responsible for Human Resources will be — if he has not already — starting to have some dialogue about the next level of what we can do to improve where we’re going.
Specifically for this department, as it’s represented and as the motion is about, we have to talk about Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations. It’s a combination of responsibilities we serve. In fact, when we put this package together, two of our employees were out on education leave and are now back and in the department. So these numbers are off slightly, and we would adjust, of course. We’re seeing how that continues to work. So we’ve got a couple more employees who are back from education leave, which shows our commitment in having them further advance their careers and potentially move up the ladder as well. So we’ve got that in place.
I’m all for having aboriginal people in place to do the job. We have to ensure that they have the appropriate level of education and training, because as an aboriginal person, I’m not in favour of putting people in place who are going to fail. I would say that we’ve got to improve in that area. I think, in this case, we’ve got a couple of employees who have returned from education leave who will support us, the way we go forward and the work we do.
As well, even in the negotiation pieces, one thing we find in this department — because, as the Government of the Northwest Territories, we’re not seen as the employer of choice in a number of areas — is that as people move up the system in our negotiation process in other areas, they receive other, more lucrative offers, whether it be from the federal government or their own aboriginal organizations. So we have to compete with that as well. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
To the motion.
Question.
Question is being called. There has been a request for a recorded vote. All those in favour, please rise.
Mr. Beaulieu, Ms. Bisaro, Mr. Bromley, Mr. Abernethy, Mr. Ramsay, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Hawkins, Mr. Jacobson.
All those against the motion, please rise. All those abstaining from the motion, please rise.
Mr. Lafferty, Ms. Lee, Mr. Miltenberger, Mr. Roland, Mr. Michael McLeod, Mr. Yakeleya, Mr. Bob McLeod.
Results of the motion are eight in favour of the motion, none against, seven abstentions. The motion is carried.
Motion carried.
We’re on page 2-97, Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, Operations Expenditure Summary: $6.5 million. Agreed?
Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, Activity Summary, Operations Expenditure Summary: $6.5 million, approved.
Page 2-99, Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, Activity Summary, Grants and Contributions, Grants: $650,000. Agreed?
Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, Activity Summary, Grants and Contributions, Grants: $650,000, approved.
Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, information item, Active Positions, page 2-100. Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I see that there’s a reduction of 11 positions. I just wondered if the Premier — or I should say, the Minister of Aboriginal Affairs, in this particular case, but obviously one and the same — had any comment as to the strategy to review this reduction, and if he had any comment on the work that was done to ensure that either these positions weren’t necessary or, furthermore, that this work could be picked up by other staff.
Minister of Aboriginal Affairs, Mr. Roland.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I’m going to have to repeat what Minister Lee said yesterday. It’s not a matter that our positions are not needed and required in what we do but of making decisions of best serving the tables we’re at and the mandate we have.
We’ve come up with a balance where we’re at every table that is established, and we are meeting our mandate when it comes to, for example, implementation, because that’s a part of the funding through the federal government that we have to meet. We have been meeting those obligations.
Six of the 11 positions are vacant. I gave a list earlier on the number of positions that were actually targeted for reduction through this exercise.
We are coming forward with a revised plan and process of how we work with First Nations and aboriginal governments and organizations in the Northwest Territories. For example, on the contribution funding piece, as Members had made a recommendation that we increase that portion, we did. But we’re looking to formalize our relationship with aboriginal governments and organizations. I say “formalize” because in the past we have had political accords to establish relationships.
What we’re doing now is going to the four meetings per year, meeting with regional leaders and the Premier — myself — and we would bring the resources to the table on specific initiatives. It would be a time that now all parties can put agenda items together, similar to the process we use right now on the intergovernmental forums, when it’s provincial or federal, and with the territorial government. So we’re adopting that and moving it forward and formalizing our relationship.
As well, we’ll have one meeting with each aboriginal government and organization and their elected leaders once a year. So we’ll have bilaterals once a year, and four meetings per year with regional leadership on initiatives that we feel we can move forward on as the people of the Northwest Territories. That’s the core of where we’re going with some of the change.
As I stated earlier, in the 2009–2010 business plan process, we’re bringing back to the table a number of initiatives to increase the role that we have, changing somewhat from what we used to be and how we funded things in the past. So we are coming forward in the fall business plan cycle with a change in the plan, and also, it would require more resources.
I thank the Premier for that answer. Before I get specifically to the impacted and whatnot, the Premier did make a statement regarding meeting their mandate. I just want to be clear: he’s saying that with a reduction of staff, they’ll still be able to meet their mandate. Could he explain what the case was before? If there’s been a reduction of — can I say? — approximately 20 to 25 per cent of staff, that’s a huge reduction. From a layperson’s point of view, you’re saying you can delete 25 per cent of people working on a particular file, or maybe in an area, and still meet that mandate, so either you were doing mandate-plus or the mandate’s been trimmed down. I just want that assurance. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, it isn’t easy to make changes to our planning, but one of the things we had to do was ensure we met our mandate at the negotiation tables and implementation tables. So we’ve ensured that with the changes we’ve had in place, at those tables we still have representation. We’ve gone, in a number of cases, from three down to two, but we have our chief negotiator and one other at the table.
As I went through before, the majority of the positions identified, six of them, are vacant, so we’ve had to take positions from a number of areas that go on. We’ve had to look at administrative positions, communications, policy advisor, budget analyst, and senior communications as well. Those are the areas we’ve highlighted for impact and reduction.
The tables: we’ve kept our complement of two people at each table. As I stated earlier, as the new tables are established, we’re going to have to come back to this Assembly for more resources.
We intend, as I said earlier, in the 2009–2010 business-planning process, to come forward through the Managing This Land initiative, because we talked about land and governance coming with initiatives of some restructuring and a new way of doing business with our aboriginal partners.
Mr. Chairman, could the Minister provide some information as to how those five positions ended up, or where they ended up? Were they transferred? If the positions were reduced, what happened to the employees in those particular cases? Were they transferred to empty positions, vacant positions, or are they still in stasis at this moment, waiting for the completion of the budget? Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, before I hand this off to the deputy minister, the fact is, as we go through the cycle, we’re working through HR with affected employees for the potential finding of other positions. Each department, in some cases, is working with individuals; with others, we’re waiting for this final process to be done before shifting of positions can happen.
But specifically within Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, I’ll have Ms. Sparling give some detail.
I’d just like to take the time to recognize a few people in the visitors’ gallery. The mayor from Paulatuk, Ray Ruben, and his wife, Bella; and Ernest Betsina from Yellowknife. Welcome to the House.
Mr. Hawkins. Oh, sorry. Ms. Sparling.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. One of the five positions was an administrative assistant who has since found indeterminate employment in another department. Another position, a communications advisor, was also successful in getting an indeterminate position in another department. One policy person has chosen to go back to school and has resigned from the GNWT. There were two people affected who are on transfer assignment. Our understanding is that at least one of them will have a position back at their home department, and the other one may not.
Thank you for that detail. Actually, that was very helpful. Out of the remaining, or what would be described as the remaining 32 positions, how many will be left vacant? My question would be: do you have any unfunded positions that go over and above that latest number?
Mr. Chairman, the rest of the positions have been filled. We have one vacant position that’s there, and we’re using those funds to hire a contract negotiator on a number of our files.
We’re on page 2-100, with regard to Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations. Mr. Hawkins.
I think that has satisfied my concerns at this time. Thank you.
Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, information item, Active Positions, page 2-101. Agreed?
Department of Aboriginal Affairs and Intergovernmental Relations, Activity Summary, Active Positions, information item, approved.
Mr. Hawkins?
Just putting my hand up because we’re turning the page.
Okay, we’re on 2-102, Lease Commitments — Infrastructure. Mr. Hawkins.
Can I get some further details on this as to exactly what this lease commitment is and how it provides value to the Department of Aboriginal Affairs, and of course to the Government of the Northwest Territories?
Minister of Aboriginal Affairs, Mr. Roland.
Mr. Chairman, I believe the Member is referring to the lease commitment on page 2-103. That area is one where we pay the lease of the government office that is in Ottawa. It has been established there for a number of years. This is one of the areas where we are doing work within the Executive and DAAIR to see if we can change the way we do business in Ottawa and the need for that office. We’re looking at our options in that category. So it’s still there for now. This is our piece of it, of the actual lease of the space itself.
Is this office staffed, and by how many people, if it is?
Mr. Chairman, there are, right now at the office in Ottawa, two staff. One is an office manager and the other, one of the individuals who is on transfer assignment, is also there. We know the transfer assignment is changing, so we will have one office manager in the office itself. Again, that office is open for all departments to use when they travel into the capital, Ottawa, as well as for other organizations and aboriginal governments for their use when they travel down there.
The Minister wasn’t 100 per cent clear on the transfer assignment positions. Is that one that is affected and will be reduced, and will that mean there will be one person in the office after a certain period of time?
