Debates of March 10, 2009 (day 26)

In the normal course of events that is what the plan will be. But if the Member will recollect, when we came forward to brief committee in September it was basically in the concept stage that we thought that we could reorder the capital planning process, identify $20 million a year over three years with a proposed list of projects. The commitment was that while it was coming in after or at the same time as the capital planning process was being approved and we hadn’t had a chance to look at this collectively that we would, for the first go around, come back during this particular budgeting process to finalize the detail on some of the projects, which is what we’ve done. From here on in it should be built into the regular planning process.

I lied. It’s not my last question. You mentioned that it’s going to be coming forward by way of the capital planning process. Like I say, there’s been a lot of capital infrastructure, especially in Fort Smith where I mentioned the electric heat. I believe there’s also a project at the college. I’d like to know, can you give us a breakdown of exactly how much of these type of dollars by way of unique projects like electric heat, wood pellets are in place and where those capital expenditures are being spent to date and why is it all focused in the south of the Northwest Territories?

Out of that $20 million a year, this is $2.5 million. We have about $6.9 million that looks at a whole host of other projects. For the first year, Lutselk’e, Whati hydro, that Fort Providence transmission line, Bear River feasibility, natural gas conversion feasibility, the Hydro Strategy, in-stream hydro projects, we’re looking for some money for the electricity review. We have another $3.8 million for different biomass and wind energy in the Beaufort-Delta. We’ve tried to be as comprehensive as possible. As well, we have the $3 million a year for the commercial power subsidy for the small communities. I recognize the Member’s concern, but I just want to make sure that everybody is aware that there are a broad range of areas that we’re trying to address.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. We are on page 6, Public Works and Services, capital investment expenditures, asset management, not previously authorized, $2.5 million.

Agreed.

Total department, $2.5 million.

Agreed.

Finally, page 7, Transportation, capital investment expenditures, highways, not previously authorized, $6 million. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As you know, this project is a community access road project. There was also a motion passed in the House regarding the Aklavik access road to their gravel source. I’d like to ask the Minister if there is going to be any capital dollars available for that project to go forward in the next fiscal year.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I understand there is planning work underway, but possibly I’d ask Minister Michael McLeod if he wanted to just speak to that project on the Aklavik project, what’s happening with the gravel source in Aklavik.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Michael McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’d have to ask the Member to repeat the question. I apologize.

Thank you, Mr. Michael McLeod. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I mentioned, there was a motion passed in this House supporting both the Tuk access road project and the Aklavik access road project. I’d like to know if there are any capital dollars allocated in next year’s budget for the Aklavik access road.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don’t have that information with me to be able to say with any certainty.

I thought that question was going to get referred to the Minister of Transportation, who seemed to know where the capital dollars are coming from.

The way this new process is unfolding with capitals, at least the first go around, as Finance Minister I was at the table addressing issues. I know there is work underway in terms of a study. There were some dollars identified under the Build Canada money. I don’t know the results of that work and I don’t know at this point what’s being brought forward.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Anything further, Mr. Krutko?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The point I’m trying to make is we have supported two capital projects in this House, yet one’s going ahead and the other one they’re doing a study right now. After the study is done there is going to be capital dollars needed to do the project. I’d like to know if there are any plans regarding our business planning process where there will be an opportunity for capital dollars to be approved either through a supp or the basic capital planning process for the Aklavik access road.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Miltenberger.

I believe at this point the Minister responsible for Public Works and Transportation can provide some more detail.

Thank you. Mr. Michael McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The source 177 gravel access road project has been on the drawing board for some time. For many years it has been discussed in the House with many different MLAs. A lot of planning has been undertaken to develop this project that would allow us to source gravel from this site. That was taken forward for consideration through the Building Canada. We are now looking for dollars to move forward. Rather than doing this over a five-year program, we’re now looking at doing it over a couple years. The Aklavik gravel source study or gravel source project is really early in its assessment. There are a number of routes that were brought forward for discussion. There is consideration about doing an assessment on the actual gravel and the amount in that area. It’s not ready for consideration for capital at this point. We have not started putting our capital budget together for next year, so it’s difficult to say whether it will be included. It’s really depending on the amount of capital dollars available and the results that are going to be accessed and looked at with the work that’s being done.

Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Mr. Krutko.

This project’s been on the books as long as I’ve been here. We’ve been spending dollars over there on the community access road funding of $250,000 a year. I think we have two kilometres of road built. It’s not as if this is something that this government isn’t aware of. You can go all the way back to, I think, former Members of this House with regard to Richard Nerysoo. He brought that issue up to this House going back before the 13th Assembly. For the Minister to make the comment that it hasn’t really been a priority of this House or an issue of this House, what does it take to get a project on the government’s wish list in order to go forward with this stuff? I’d just like to get some assurances here that this project will actually get the support like this project here that we’re dealing with right now on the same basis of actually having governments put capital dollars in it. We’ve built community access roads from the Mackenzie Highway into communities using the Community Access Road Project, which has basically cost us millions of dollars a year. Yet for this project, it’s been nickel and dime to where it is right now. I’d like to know exactly what this government is going to do to give me some assurance that the people of Aklavik will actually see some fair treatment in this House when it comes to these types of projects.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Krutko, I’d like to remind you that we need to stay on topic here. This is straying quite a ways from this topic. We’re looking for approval for fairly specific dollars here. There is another floor for that. I’ll give the Minister an opportunity to respond. Mr. Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This issue has been given serious consideration, as Mr. McLeod indicated. There is work being done. There is determination of the most appropriate routes, assessment of the gravel source, the quality of the gravel, all those technical issues that have to be resolved. This is on our list and it is being given due and appropriate, serious consideration and as the work is completed, we’ll collectively be in a position to be able to determine the next steps that are possible within the resources available.

Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Mr. Krutko, anything further to access road 177, $6 million?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In regard to an all-weather access road, basically it’s a capital project of this government to gravel sources. Every community should have access to their gravel sources. I’d like to point out that in regard to the $6 million here, why is it that communities who are trying to get dollars to get to their access for gravel are having such a tough time, yet we’re able to approve this budget here? How many communities are out there that have built roads to their gravel sources and used other capital projects, regardless of if it’s a community access road project or in regard to this project which is identified as an all-weather access road to the gravel sources? I ask the question, why is there no consideration for capital dollars knowing that there is actually a study in place now that will need capital dollars to implement the road from Aklavik to its gravel source, which is 20 kilometres? That should be a straightforward answer, which basically you’re going to build a road for 20 kilometres, you’re going to have to do some preliminary work. Exactly how much money is this government willing to put forward? Do we have to be on that side of the House to get whatever you want?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. I’ll allow this final response on this to the Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. There is work being done on this project. We have to come forward when we have the facts, figures and clear estimates. It is very difficult to book a figure on a project that has not been quantified or technically fully assessed. We also collectively know that we have far more needs than we have resources. Aklavik road is there. Work is being done. The commitment has been made. We fully intend to honour the commitment and conclude the work so that we can move this project forward. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Committee, we are on highways, not previously authorized, $6 million. Mr. Krutko.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Does the Minister have a final cost of exactly what this project is going to cost?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.

Yes, we do. I would ask Minister McLeod to give you the full detail of the estimates. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Minister McLeod.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am assuming we are talking about service 177 still. The final cost we are anticipating is going to be around $18 million for this project.

Thank you, Mr. Michael McLeod. Anything further, Mr. Krutko?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If we are talking about access road 177 which I believe is 20-odd kilometres, same as the road to Aklavik’s gravel source -- I think it was 22 kilometres -- can we use a rough ball estimate for these access roads? Are we talking $1 million a kilometre? If that is the case, could that be the basis of building a road from Aklavik to the gravel source in regards to the gravel source based on that estimate of $18 million for 20 kilometres?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.

Mr. Chairman, the Member is asking me as a Finance Minister if I were to agree the rough estimate would be the figures he has quoted. I have no reason to disagree with that rough estimate, but there is still the planning and technical work to be concluded, but yes. We know how much the Tuk road is costing. We know what the construction costs are and that in the region that we have a ballpark idea of the amount of money we are talking about. Yes, it will be an expensive road. Thank you.

I just want to get some assurances that you are talking $1 million a kilometre. I believe using that estimate, that road from Aklavik to its gravel source shouldn’t be any different than the road from Tuk to site 177 based on $1 million a kilometre. I think that makes economic sense. That is what it is going to cost. I don’t know why Aklavik can’t be considered for $20 million in regards to its gravel source and put that on your books and basically develop it into your business plan.

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. I didn’t detect a question there. Committee, once again, highways, not previously authorized, $6 million. Mr. Krutko.

I will try to rephrase my question. My question was, can the government consider putting into its business plan an estimate for gravel road source to 177 costs about $1 million a kilometre where to Nahanni Butte we are spending $500,000 a year to build that road to that community? I would like to know exactly using that ball park number, would the government consider putting forward in its business plans that it is going to cost $1 million a kilometre to build roads to gravel sources in our communities?

Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Again, a final response on this topic, Minister Miltenberger.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As Minister McLeod indicated, the work on the capital plan for 2010-11 is in progress. We will be looking at the progress of the work that Minister McLeod indicated is being done and where it will fit in terms of the planning process. It will be given full consideration within that process that is underway. We will soon be picking up speed. Thank you.

Thank you, Minister. Once again, committee, highways, $6 million.

Agreed.