Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have follow-up questions to my previous questions about the various reviews that are being undertaken with respect to power in the Northwest Territories. In follow-up to my colleague Mr. Hawkins’ questions and his reference to secret handshakes and stuff like that, just because ATCO put an unsolicited proposal on the table, I don’t think they should get beat up in this Assembly. They are a company, the founders of whom I know well and they are I think a very much to be respected and admired company from what they have been able to do in the private sector. I just want to clearly say that I don’t have any issues with ATCO, the ownership or the people. That doesn’t mean I want to sell them the Power Corporation.
Mr. Speaker, the Power Corporation proposal suggests a five-year freeze on rates. That is a very short window, really, in the scheme of things. Power is an essential service. The GNWT is the biggest customer of power in the Northwest Territories, so I ask the Premier, a five-year freeze on power, but then what input do we have in terms of power rate setting? Right now, we own the Power Corporation and it is not the best scenario right now. I’m sure if you go out on this little review and ask, what you do you think of the NWT Power Corporation, it won’t be a very happy answer right now. People are unhappy. People are crabby about their power bills. Mr. Speaker, we are the biggest consumer of this essential service here as the Government of the Northwest Territories. Does the Premier agree that this is an essential service that the government should retain control of? Thank you.
Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Some of the comments the Member has made in this area leads to what may be in the future. Right now it is an essential service. That is treated as such. We end up dealing as the biggest user and the supplier of power in the North. We end up dealing on an annual basis with either rate riders or the increased cost of that. We have to look at those areas. I believe that, as the proposals have been sent in to us, it is of interest. That is why we have this initial phase of reviewing that and would decide at a future date if we should go in on that date I have given to Members earlier. Thank you.
To the review of the Power Corporation and its operations, essentially the Power Corporation gets audited every time they go to the PUB for general rate applications. So we just have been through a GRA; we have just been through a general rate application. I wasn’t there. I don’t know all the ins and outs of the kinds of costs that go into the rates that are set, the kind of return on investment. Were we there at the general rate application proceedings as the Government of the Northwest Territories observing those proceedings? Did we learn anything from that? Thank you.
I can’t speak for the last general rate application, if we had people there and what role they were playing in taking in the information. The Power Corporation is our corporation. We are the sole shareholder. We’ve been aware of the information. The Member is right; through the PUB, it is a rigorous process that it goes through. We have also heard from Members of this House and people across the Territory when they have to deal with the bump of rates. Whether it is a rate rider or a fuel stabilization rate rider or low water rate rider or just a general rate application increase, we have heard from people of the North that something has to be done to looking at that. We have heard many times by Members of this House concerns about the operation of the Power Corporation. The review and the initiatives we’re under will give us more clarity in the steps we will need to take in the future. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, the PUB has already clearly stated in answers to the questions in the past with respect to the types of rate structures that are in place in the Northwest Territories, that they are not in the business of social engineering when it comes to power rates; they are interested in the economic cost of producing power. If the Government of the Northwest Territories, through our policies as the shareholder in the Power Corporation, want to affect rates through our Territorial Support Subsidy Program, that’s entirely up to us. We take the dividends in the Power Corporation, we finance the territorial support. We have a lot of capacity for doing things within our control already with respect to the rates in the smaller communities. Have we done enough? Are there other things that we could do to help offset the high costs, particularly in the diesel communities? Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, the high cost of energy, one, is predominantly felt in the diesel communities is correct; but as we’ve seen lately, communities served by hydro felt the bite as well. We’ve heard a number of stories about the concerns of the increase in those communities. We have to look at all our options and that’s what the work that’s undergoing now through the Ministerial Energy Coordinating Committee, the review of the Power Corporation and the review of the ATCO proposal is to see what options are realistically on the table and what that might mean for the future of the North. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final, short supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.
The very thing that makes this a timely discussion is also something quite unprecedented. We’ve just gone through the highest price per barrel of crude oil in history and this necessarily affects production of energy in the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, has the government looked at how the increases in the cost of energy here in the Northwest Territories compare with the kinds of increases that have been experienced by Canadians in other jurisdictions? Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, we do comparisons on the cost per kilowatt hour. It is very difficult, though, to find another jurisdiction like the Northwest Territories except, for example, Nunavut, and they’re even more predominantly dependent on fossil fuels. We have a mix of hydro and diesel. The Yukon has even more hydro than we do. Comparisons to southern jurisdictions is very different because they have a much larger rate base and that’s what also affects and drives our costs, but that shouldn’t stop us from looking at the future possibilities of what we can do as a government to try and stabilize rates, lower rates and make affordable living a reality in our communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to ask questions to the lead Minister on the Energy Coordinating Committee in terms of the review that’s going to be taking place in the Northwest Territories on rates and electricity review. In terms of these types of consultations that are happening in the Northwest Territories, can the Minister inform the House here, in terms of this type of discussion, will it be open and transparent with all the information and no set predetermination as to the information that’s going to be given to the people in those communities in terms of how they see the review of the electricity and the rates in the North here?
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable lead Minister for the Energy Coordinating Committee, Mr. Bob McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As the Member knows, we’ve spent a considerable amount of time with the standing committees to ensure that we got the right questions out there and also we prepared a number of discussion papers. We’ve laid out a very ambitious communications strategy and it’s our intention to go into a number of communities and make sure all of these meetings are well advertised and that we get as many people out as possible. We do have a committee panel that’s been established and we will be counting on the panel to respond as to what they hear through their consultations. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the communities are at somewhat of a disadvantage because, and I’m not too sure if there are any resources available to them for research information in terms of the rates in terms of the suggestions they may come forward with. The panel may have all the research available to them, but do the communities have some type of a fund available to them to do their own research in terms of looking at some solutions that may be brought up through these consultations?
We have very limited funds available for energy planning and we would be interested in hearing what concerns individuals have with regard to their energy costs. We will be expecting businesses that will be impacted to pay their own way when they participate. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The time for question period has expired; however, I will allow the Member a short supplementary question. Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Then, would the lead Minister consider in terms of helping out with some of the communities in terms of their research because, again, they are going to be at a disadvantage in terms of putting together some real solutions if they’re just going to have a question and answer period in terms of the panel going through the communities. I ask if the Minister would look at his funds and see if there are some dollars available for the communities.
The Member can be assured that we are working very closely with the NWT Association of Communities and we are funding the NWT Association of Communities so that all of the communities participate in a workshop that will be happening at the end of this month, March 30 and 31. As well, we are working very closely with the chambers of commerce and we will be talking about this review when they have the annual general meetings. All of the communities will be participating. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final, short supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Minister, in terms of the disadvantages, the way I look at it is that the energy panel really has a lot of money in terms of putting together facts and information. The communities would have very little money. Even the Minister has said that the business communities have to pay their way, so I see that they’re disadvantaged in terms of how this process will be. However, again, I would ask if the Minister would continue to look for other avenues where the communities can be properly funded to have a meaningful consultation. Thank you.
We are providing for the participation of non-tax-based communities in a workshop with the NWT Association of Communities and we will be paying for that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Item 8, written questions. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.
Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to go back to item 7.
---Unanimous consent granted
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my question is directed to the Minister of Finance and his commitment that he’s going to look at a possible equity share in the pipeline. Well, I, for one, do not support that initiative. I would like to ask the Minister of Finance...If you’re going to look into anything, you should look at the hundreds and tens of millions of dollars we’ve put into the diamond industry and really got nothing back. I’d like to ask the Minister, before you decide to look at the pipeline, maybe you should focus on the diamond industry where this government has put tens of millions of dollars in it, spent money on secondary industries, basically bailing out diamond plants and also basically developing training programs through our colleges and whatnot by way of diamond cutting and polishing training course. So I’d like to ask the Minister, would you seriously consider looking at the diamond industry before you consider looking at the pipeline? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister of Finance, Mr. Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We’re not committing to look at taking an equity position in anything. I’ve committed to bring forward a paper that would lay out some of the considerations if we were going to look at that, some of the challenges, the lack of funds, what kind of…(inaudible)…building you would have and those type of very basic, fundamental issues before we would even think of being able to try to move forward on any project. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, I think we should watch what we ask for here, because I think if you’re going to open up one box, you’re going to be opening up a whole bunch of boxes from hydro development to diamond industry to oil and gas to you name it. You start opening up these boxes, you better be willing to look at everything that’s under the sun. I’d like to ask the Minister, if you’re going to consider this policy, you better make it a policy that basically affects the whole Northwest Territories in all sectors by way of the hydro sector, the oil and gas sector, the minerals sector, the diamonds sector and the tourism sector. Are you willing to consider all those options?
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. I must remind the Member to address your comments through the Chair. Mr. Miltenberger.
Mr. Speaker, I’ve committed to get a document done, a basic discussion paper that I’ve committed to share with the Members. Clearly, if we look at this area we have to be prepared, as the Member indicated, to consider everything. We’re going to have very limited capacity to take an equity position in anything, I would suggest. However, we will do a paper, lay out what may be entailed and what our capabilities are. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, in regard to any equity share that you liken to business, there are usually gives and takes. I’d like to ask the Minister, would you also consider that you’d look at an equity share, that you’d forgive the tax by way of corporate taxes and any tax revenue that may come from these developments, and in lieu of those revenues would you consider what the financial implications of those decisions are?
The Member is getting far, far ahead of anything that may even be considered to happen here. There was a general request about why doesn’t the government take an equity position and will you come forward with a paper that outlines what’s possible in terms of even considering it or being capable to afford it. We’re going to look at that. We’re nowhere near any time of consideration at the level of detail that the Member is suggesting. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.
Mr. Speaker, in regard to the Minister wanting to look at the equity share and this stuff, would he also consider looking at the possibility of a resource tax, which is probably a better mix than looking at an equity share in regard to these types of developments?
As a government we’ve already made a decision that we were going to stand back from the $30 million in revenue that we were going to generate through possible tax increases. So at this point, given the economic circumstances, we don’t see any type of new tax regime as having much appropriateness at this particular time. Once again, we’ll bring forward a very basic paper on the potential of equity positions by governments, does it make sense, is it affordable, and if it is, would we even want to consider it given all our other pressures. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. While asking questions to the Premier earlier, what seemed to keep getting slipped in the whole process was the fact that there’s no mandate or terms of reference for this electrical review that’s going on. Mr. Speaker, I’d like to hear from the Premier why there isn’t a mandate but we’re sending them out starting in Inuvik in the next couple days to hear from the people. Why is it just treated as a public discussion without a mandate? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I believe the Member is referring to the review that is undertaken by the lead Minister of the Energy Coordinating Committee, so I will refer that question to Minister Bob McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. Mr. Bob McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have worked very closely with the standing committees and we have come forward with a number of papers. We have come forward with a discussion paper that will be taken to the communities. We have also developed a communications plan and approach. They have laid out the questions and the areas of interest that they will be consulting on and we expect a report in June. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, that’s all well and good, but why do we not have a terms of reference and a mandate for this and something on paper that demonstrates how it plugs into the bigger picture for solutions for rates and costs going forward? Why is there no mandate? Why is there no terms of reference? Thank you.
We have a discussion paper that has been circulated and it asks all the questions that have been developed in conjunction with the standing committee. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I spoke to some people in the community and they’re quite concerned that there’s no mandate or terms of reference on how this is proceeding. It’s designed pretty much as an open, like a blank page approach for community consultation. Mr. Speaker, I would think that it would be more useful if we had a terms of reference and a mandate that demonstrated how they plug into the other two components, which is, of course, the value for money audit and the proposal that’s being reviewed through ATCO and the GNWT partners. Mr. Speaker, does the Minister not agree that a terms of reference and a mandate would not be useful in this particular case? Thank you.
