I thank the Minister for that response. Without changing the income requirements for the program, will the Minister direct his staff to revise the policy so that these adult children and grandchildren who live with elders can have all or some of their income exempt depending on how the department chooses to look at it? Some or all of their income exempt in lieu of the important elders’ care that these children are providing.
Those are the areas that we are currently evaluating. We need to assess who those seniors are, how many individuals are living with them, and they are based on household income.
As I stated in the House on several occasions, some of those individuals are working at the mines. Some of those individuals take advantage of the system. We have to be very careful in the evaluation system. As long as it benefits the clientele, the seniors, we’ll do what we can to meet those needs of those individuals. We are looking into this even further within my department.
Will the Minister commit to further working with the Minister responsible for Seniors with the specific mandate of looking at revising all of the seniors support programs?
We work as a cross-cultural departmental initiative where NWT Housing Corporation uses household income. The same for the Minister responsible for Seniors through her programming. Within the ECE subsidy programs it is based on household income. Those are the areas that we continue to improve our programming. Yes, I will continue to work with my two colleagues on this particular item.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Final supplementary, Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In that future work will the Minister agree to look at the seniors support programs holistically with the other Ministers and do what is feasible for the seniors and for the government and essentially all the residents of the NWT?
I was having a chat on the side with my colleague here. Definitely we are committed and I believe it was brought up some time ago that we need to look at the household income. We are committed to looking even further at expanding the role of the subsidy programs we deliver based on household income. So the Housing Corporation is also. We will look into this further.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Premier. The NWT Hydro Corporation’s strategic plan promises a feasibility analysis and design of a potential electrical grid for the Northwest Territories. The Taltson expansion does not address this or support a long-term strategy focused on the NWT grid system or creating redundancy within the NWT electrical system. You would think that this analysis and design of a grid should logically occur prior to the Taltson expansion itself. So could the Premier tell me how can this government support the expansion of Taltson if it avoids addressing this issue, which is one of the primary purposes that the NWT Hydro Corporation exists in the first place? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the NWT Hydro Strategy does set out the development of a grid over the long-term life of the Northwest Territories. This piece of our plan is based on the business case, a business model that sees revenue accruing to the partnership and to the Hydro Corporation. From there, the benefits then would flow in other areas, Mr. Speaker, that would see, for example, the GDP of the Government of the Northwest Territories remain or grow because we’re able to supply electrical power to industry at a lower rate than is being done, so now because they have to build their own electricity generation as part of their scenarios of mine development and, as well, burn diesel and also add to the climate change concerns that we have. Thank you.
I was wondering if the Premier could tell me what business opportunity he’s talking about. I was under the impression that the whole business case of the Taltson expansion was based on selling power to diamond mines, of which I understand that the diamond mines haven’t signed any power purchasing agreements or anything like that. So who are these business opportunities and these new mining ventures that exist? Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, one of the things we have to realize and recall, even the previous decisions made by the mines because of the economic downturn was they shut down for a number of months because of the cost of running their operations, and that takes into fact the cost of running their facilities in a remote location. Our plan would provide for power at a cheaper rate, thereby expanding mine lives, for example, or allowing a new mine to be developed, because one of the things that the shareholders of a mining operation have to take into consideration is the overall cost of doing business in the Northwest Territories.
So as we look at those pieces, this process was put in place, Deze Corporation, a partnership that we have to sign off on as the Government of the Northwest Territories in the near future if we’re really going to make this go ahead, as well as have those partnership agreements and the power purchase agreements in place with the mines. So there are a number of key things that go ahead much like, for example, the Mackenzie Gas Pipeline. There is a potential project, but the proponents have to decide if it actually goes after they’ve invested significant dollars through an environmental process to see if, in fact, it can proceed in a cost-effective manner. So the same thing applies to the Taltson. Thank you.
I think with something like the Taltson expansion we need to be thinking long term, we need to be thinking about the benefits to the people of the Northwest Territories, not just to the pocketbook of Deze which stands to make a lot of money from this if we go around the East Arm. There are other mining opportunities. There’s Avalon near Thor Lake, there are opportunities in Pine Point, and there’s also, hopefully someday if there aren’t already, opportunities in the North Slave Geological Province that can be accessed through alternate routes. I want to know why we’re so bent on going with this around the East Arm route through a park, a brand new federal park, when there are all these other opportunities which will create more opportunities in the long run such as an opportunity to create some grids. It seems awfully short-sighted to go around the East Arm and ignore these other routes. I was wondering if the Premier could tell me a little bit more about why we’re so set on that one route.
Mr. Speaker, the alternate routes have been looked at by the Hydro Corporation and the Power Corp because through the environmental review they were asked for additional information. That was provided. This project will not work. We will not be able to sell energy to the mines for an acceptable rate. They will not sign power purchase agreements for a cost higher than they’re able to develop it for in today’s environment. Adding approximately $100 million-plus to the project by going around the west side of the lake would put that project in a place where it is uneconomical and we have no project; there will be no expansion without a customer. The customer base is based on kilowatt hours. Those discussions are ongoing and if those agreements get signed, we have a project to move forward. If they don’t get signed, we have no project. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. Your final supplementary, Mr. Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There is more than just the western route; there are the two across-the-lake routes, and if I remember correctly, I think the costs on those aren’t quite as high as going all the way around the west. One might be $40 million and one might be $50 million. I don’t know for sure, but it’s quite a gap from the $100 million that the Premier is suggesting. I’m thinking that the costing that we got was from Deze. Deze wants to go around the east. How do we know that the costing we’re getting for the other routes are fair and reasonable? Would the Premier commit to actually having a little bit of an independent review done into the actual costing of alternate routes? Because the only ones we’re getting are Deze and Hydro Corporation assessments. I’d like to see what some of those costs are from an independent body as opposed to Deze. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. Mr. Roland.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I stated earlier, through the environmental review process additional information was requested. That information was gathered and supplied to the review board around alternate sites. We go from $70 million to as high as $200 million, depending on the different scenarios that we’ve looked at: across-the-lake, underwater cable and so on. Substantially more expensive than what’s in place today. Without a business case, without a customer at a kilowatt hour, there is no project unless this government itself decides to pay the additional cost for going alternate routes around the lake. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in my Member’s statement I talked about a lack of response to a constituent’s concern. At issue for my constituent was the very long time that he would have had to wait to see a specialist doctor. In the end he never did see a specialist; his injury healed itself, fortunately. But that does not address the problem of long wait times that NWT residents are faced with. The original reason for his e-mail was the problem of a long wait time, and that was in October of 2008. So my question is to the Minister of Health and Social Services. I understand that we have different specialists within the NWT, and different specialties, of course, will have more people attending to them than others, but I’d like to know from the Minister how long a person should have to wait to see a specialist doctor. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The honourable Minister responsible for Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a lot of respect for the Member, but that was quite a scathing statement talking about how unresponsive I am, which makes me wonder what kind of a Member is she to wait for 18 months before she brings up an issue about her constituent.
Mr. Speaker, we work on the same floor; we work in the same building; my BlackBerry is on 24 hours a day. She knows that a simple phone call or an e-mail could have given her an update. Mr. Speaker, at the same time, her scandalous headline, she did answer her own question in that…
I want to answer the question about being responsive to constituents. We take this job very seriously. We have 2,500 people working in the department who work hard to respond, and the Member did state that this person was contacted by a staff. When they contact my office they don’t always get a direct answer from me. We respond as a system.
Mr. Speaker, wait times, without knowing the details, I can’t answer the question. I’ll take the question as notice and get the details and get back to the Member. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Jacobson.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, today my Member’s statement was on the Mackenzie Gas Project and my questions today are for the Minister of ITI. Is the Minister of ITI working with Esso and other producers to get this Mackenzie Gas Project restarted to avoid the two-year delay that producers have announced? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. The honourable Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Bob McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have worked with Mackenzie Valley Pipeline proponents and also the Aboriginal Pipeline Group in the past to determine some of the information requirements that were required for the pipeline. The Joint Review Panel has recently filed the report. Until such time as the responsible Ministers and the various governments respond, we will continue to participate through providing a government response and also continuing to intervene and participate in the different hearings as appropriate. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the MGP slowdown in the offshore activity moving over to Alaska and the Chukchi Sea with Shell and the communities in the Beaufort-Delta and Nunakput communities that I represent, there is a drill chip in the Mckinley Bay 60 miles away from Tuk. People could be working. The two-year delay such as this really puts a damper on everything because the projects that we do have going on in Tuk, the access road is starting to slow down, it is near completion. Mr. Speaker, what will the Minister of ITI be doing with the federal Ministers to get this project restarted to avoid the further delay and is he working to get the offshore activity restarted? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I think there are a couple of pieces of information that I need to emphasize. First of all, Imperial Oil recently announced that the decision to construct would be made in 2013. The earliest if gas would flow would be in 2018 if it was a positive decision. The reasons they gave for the delay was the long delay caused by the regulatory process and also the lack of a fiscal arrangement with the federal government.
In the recent federal throne speech and the recent federal budget, the federal government had indicated that they support the Mackenzie Gas Pipeline as long as it was commercially viable and that it met all of the regulatory requirements that the governments would respond to.
We will continue to do our part to focus on dealing with the response from the Joint Review Panel report and also the fiscal arrangements is the most important thing. Proponents have indicated that would be the main rush now for making a positive decision to construction. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the road to the gravel source is nearing completion, the Minister working with any other businesses, communities in the Mackenzie Delta and down the valley on the downturn of the delay of the business activity, has he found a way to continue stimulus funding for additional projects such as that? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, we have been continuing to get our message out about the very negative impact that not only caused by economic slowdown but also by the lack of economic development in the region. We have been working through the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline office. We have been working with the communities and also with local businesses to try to identify the kinds of assistance that could be looked at so that we could get through this difficult period. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Your final, short supplementary, Mr. Jacobson.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to ask the Minister if he could, I guess, send a letter to the producers groups and the Joint Review Panel, but producers groups in urging them to see if they could get this project restarted and try to hold back on the two-year delay, because people in the communities and down the valley need employment. The businesses that are suffering up and down the valley need this project to go sooner rather than later. I ask the Minister if he could send a letter. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I guess if it gives the Member any comfort, the Alaska Pipeline have indicated that their project be pushed back to probably 2020. I guess a large part of the delays there is with, for example in the Chukchi Sea, there have been a lot of court cases with regards to whales and other marine mammals. That is an issue that Americans have to face as well. We will continue to work through the regulatory process and we will be working on filing our government response. We will be participating in the hearings as they go along as appropriate. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to ask my questions to the Premier and it is about the Deh Cho Bridge. Mr. Speaker, in the statement that the Premier made, it said: “First, I want to assure Members and the public that assuming responsibility for the Deh Cho Bridge Project will not change the GNWT’s fiscal situation or the GNWT’s ability to pay for programs and services.”
Mr. Speaker, that is a very categorical statement and doesn’t really take into account anything unforeseen. As my colleague Mr. Ramsay had pointed out, there have been some unexpected occurrences with the Deh Cho Bridge Project. I am thinking specifically about the cost. We had a fixed price, fixed contract, but it seems that that had to be adjusted somewhat. Mr. Speaker, we have a household income here if we make this an analogy. It is the $1.3 billion that we have to work with each year. We have some long-term debt -- Housing Corporation, Power Corporation and now potentially the Deh Cho Bridge -- but we have a limit. We have a limit. It is like having a credit card. There is a limit. We can’t go over that limit. It is $500 million.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the Premier, interest rates are projected to be going up. We have $100 million from the Immigrant Investment Fund sitting in a bank account or in some investment somewhere. It is not doing us much good financially. Is there any possibility that the lenders could be… If their fortunes and their interest could be better putting their loan someplace else, is there any chance that we could take the $165 million bridge debt for the Deh Cho Bridge and pay that down more quickly through some other means, maybe partially by using some of the Opportunities Fund’s money? I know it sounds kind of convoluted, but I mean interest rates are going up. Maybe the lenders could find a better deal somewhere else. Thank you.
Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The options for us, there are a number of things that could be developed and the Member has put the idea of the Opportunities Fund as part of a solution that could be looked at paying out a debt early. The situation that we would have to look for is, for example, the Opportunities Fund has a time amount once borrowed that it has to be paid back. The concession agreement and the agreement with the lenders that stands is already built into our fiscal strategy for the 35 years. There will come a time as interest rates go up and real bonds and the real bond market, we could weigh the possibilities of paying out the debt early and still be ahead of the game with the… I don’t know if we call it a penalty clause at that point, but the early payout would cost us some money so we would have to weigh those things out. Again, that is building into assumptions in the future. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, if we leave the Deh Cho Bridge debt on the books long term and that becomes part of our borrowing limit for the long haul, does the Premier not see that as really tying the hands of this government since it does not affect our fiscal capacity and does not affect our ability to deliver programs and services, it doesn’t anticipate anything unforeseen and it limits our borrowing ability? Does the Premier not see that as affecting our fiscal situation?
As this scenario developed and as we went to Members highlighting the concerns that we had, by not taking any action there would be immediate impact on the Government of the Northwest Territories when it comes to our debt wall. By taking the steps we have and getting confirmation from the federal Minister of Finance, Minister Flaherty, to work with us in dealing with this debt around this project short-term relief we’ve been able to work through this scenario where there will not be an immediate impact.
As I was responding earlier to Member Bromley, there would be an impact in a sense of our available borrowing capacity being impacted as we go forward as the Government of the Northwest Territories. That’s always a consideration that governments face. That is why, for example, we went outside to the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation who structured this project as it was. The Taltson project is structured as purely a business case because we realize that the Government of the Northwest Territories is unable to take on projects of that magnitude on its own.
I’d like to ask the Premier, since he brings up the Taltson hydro expansion, how is having our debt card full going to affect our ability to guarantee any loan to do the Taltson expansion?
Regardless of our debt situation as the Government of the Northwest Territories, even the bridge project aside, we are unable to, as the Government of the Northwest Territories, guarantee the debt of the Taltson. With drawing this down and bringing it into our books does not impact us that way. We’re going to have to find partners out there or have the federal government make an investment. There are a couple of funds that we have made application to try to help offset some of those costs.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Sorry, dumb question there. I forgot the Taltson was $700 million and I guess that is a bit outside of our debt limit. What do we do -- this is a hypothetical question -- I was going to say what do we do if something unforeseen comes up that’s in the millions of dollars? If we had brought the Deh Cho Bridge onto our books through a normal process similar to the Inuvik school, if we had brought that money onto our books in a similar fashion, this would be three or four years’ worth of our capital budget. Is there any possibility that we could still do that, understanding that the lenders would have to agree to allow us to do that? Has that been analyzed or looked at?
The process with the lenders, one, has unfortunately gone the track it has. Where we felt we had some flexibility, we came forward and requested the $15 million in our last sitting. We got that approval and then we were informed by the lenders that they are requesting us to assume the debt. With that in mind, that has now put us into this scenario. When it comes to repayment, the repayment structure is in place. If we want to repay earlier, there is going to be a penalty. We’d have to weigh those.
At some point, as I was speaking earlier to the markets that are out there on real bonds in that scenario and versus the penalty payment option, this is built in our fiscal strategy. It has been for the life of the agreement. With us taking over with the work of the federal government we will, we are working on ensuring that the room is there seeing if there were some changes to other expenditures, for example forest fires and so on.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.
