Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yesterday I made a Member’s statement with respect to the Taltson expansion and the importance of making decisions on a territorial resource that is in or for the public good. I followed that statement up with questions to the Premier and encouraged him to put the interests of the people of the Northwest Territories at the forefront of Cabinet decision-making on this project.
I strongly encouraged the Premier to work with Deze in the best interest of the people and, as a stakeholder, encourage them to consider alternate routes where long-term benefits are greater for the people. The Premier’s response, as presented in yesterday’s unedited Hansard, was, “alternate routes have been looked at by the Hydro Corporation and the Power Corporation.” He went further and indicated that, based on those reviews, “this project will not work. We will not be able to sell energy to the mines for an acceptable rate. They will not sign power purchase agreements for a cost higher than they’re able to develop it for in today’s environment.” This is a rather defeatist attitude and suggests that the only opportunity we have to make this work is to rely on the existing diamond mines.
I suggest that there are other opportunities. There are other mining development possibilities, and with access to local and reasonably priced power in the North Slave Geological Province we may find greater amounts of exploration and development, which is good for the entire Northwest Territories.
Further, the Premier must not fail to consider the advantages of linking existing systems by way of grids; grids which would open the possibility for exploration and development in areas which could access power from resources such as Snare Hydro where their current capacity is completely consumed by Yellowknife. This project has huge potential for all of the Northwest Territories. It must not be given away for short-term gain.
Related, I was concerned that the Premier discussed only one alternate route. Specifically, he said, according to yesterday’s Hansard, “Adding approximately $100 million-plus to the project by going around the west side of the lake would put that project in a place where it is uneconomical and we have no project.” There are other alternatives. Yes, the western route is the most expensive, but other routes like the trans-island route, which has a projected cost of base plus $40 million, are not that much more and put power within reach of Yellowknife, the diamond mines, and other mining opportunities such as Avalon’s rare earth metal project north of Great Slave Lake. This cannot be ignored.
Regardless, once we have signed supp No. 2 later this week, the GNWT will have no room in its borrowing limit and this whole thing can’t go ahead unless a reasonable and responsible third-party partner is found. I encourage the Premier to refocus this project to find a third-party partner who, in addition to understanding the value of making a profit, understands the social importance.
I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.
---Unanimous consent granted.
I encourage the Premier to refocus this project and find a third-party partner who, in addition to understanding the value of making a profit, understands the social importance of this project and that the people of the Northwest Territories who are stakeholders and owners of the Northwest Territories Power Corporation and the NWT Hydro Corporation, and that their desires and wishes must be heard and addressed as the Taltson expansion moves forward.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Later today I will be asking the Premier some questions based on my Member’s statement. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Beaulieu.
Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. [English translation not provided.]
Mr. Speaker, today I weigh in on the proposed Deze project. I realize we are just in the process of approving the Deh Cho Bridge costs by taking over the debt as the GNWT. Furthermore, the revenues that flow from the Deh Cho Bridge are largely predicated on the fuel haul to the diamond mines. Meanwhile, we are contemplating the Deze proposal, which will reduce the need for that fuel in those same mines. In addition to that, Mr. Speaker, I understand the route favoured by Deze is not acceptable to the Lutselk'e First Nations.
Mr. Speaker, I support the expansion of Taltson in order to provide more efficient clean energy to the diamond industry. However, Mr. Speaker, we need to look beyond just the diamond industry. Deze needs to look at an alternative route and they must look at the route that takes long-term users into consideration. Mr. Speaker, a route that considers Avalon and the city of Yellowknife could allow the supply of hydro power through the Snare Hydro to the diamond mines by tying the Taltson into the Snare River grid.
Mr. Speaker, I’m no expert in this area, but I feel that Deze must give up on the route that goes through the Lutselk'e territory and look at alternatives as soon as possible. I firmly believe that the extra costs of the alternative route that I speak of will have a greater cost recovery potential in the long term. I believe that rare earths and the city of Yellowknife will be around long after the diamond industry runs their course.
Meanwhile, Mr. Speaker, when considering this proposal we must need to ensure that we act responsibly and act with due diligence and strive to take into account properly all of the various interests of all parties affected by this project and only move forward in a fair, open and transparent process. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, earlier this month I made a statement on the Deze Corporation’s Taltson Hydro development and transmission routing to the diamond mines, suggesting that we might get far greater benefits from our $13-plus million investment by giving straightforward consideration to the public good.
Environmentally and socially sound economic development remains a priority of this government, and I believe this project needs a critical look to ensure that our public and our regional economies are well served by the work. I would like to see us sharpen our pencils and come up with new estimates of alternative routings to the current Reliance proposal, estimates that should be developed as if we really mean it.
Along with these estimates we need an analysis of what the broader range of benefits are that can accrue from the alternative routings. What is the value of finally having the Taltson and Snare grids linked into one system that runs through mineral rich territory, that serve larger communities currently depending to some degree on diesel power and which would allow the diamond mines to be serviced from Snare Hydro? What is the value to project proponents of adding very long-term customers at current or competitive rates?
In the NWT Hydro Strategy our first strategic goals are promoting economic development and diversification and aboriginal partnerships that serve communities and regional economic benefits. To my mind, linking our hydro systems into one grid, a grid that focuses on communities and their environs is best served by routing of the Taltson transmission line that achieves that linkage. This is not to say that the system would not serve the diamond mines, but rather that it must also serve our larger goals and thus strive for long-term public benefits rather than just large and immediate profits for our private partners.
In our Hydro Strategy we state that our first underlying socio-economic goal for residents is to stabilize and reduce over time the energy component of the high cost of living. Focusing on alternative routing that actually links existing grids and complements community energy systems will directly serve this goal.
Mr. Speaker, on March 3rd, in response to my questions, the Premier said, from unedited Hansard, “If we want to, as a government, go alternate routes, then let’s take a look at that.”
Mr. Speaker, I would like to take the Premier up on his offer and go forward with him to take a critical look at the cost and benefits of alternative routing to the Taltson transmission line.
Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.
---Unanimous consent granted.
I would like to take the Premier up on that offer and just to be clear, because the Premier suggested earlier that I do not put enough weight and bearing on our aboriginal partners, perhaps as we have with the Deh Cho Bridge project, I insist that we include our aboriginal partners on this as we go forward, they ensuring financial return and we ensuring public benefit. Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I would like to join in on voicing my concern over how the government is handling the Taltson Hydroelectric Expansion Project. Mr. Speaker, this government is currently in the middle of dealing with the $181 million Deh Cho Bridge saga. I would like to think that somewhere along the line Cabinet has learned some valuable lessons when it comes to letting others do our bidding for us we end up holding the bag.
Mr. Speaker, it is little doubt that our participation in the bridge project was ill conceived and it will go down in history as being one of the biggest government blunders of all time.
Mr. Speaker, that leads me back to the Taltson Hydroelectric Expansion Project. I have always supported the expansion of the Taltson River Hydro Project since becoming a Member of this Assembly in 2003 and today I still support the expansion. What I want to take issue with today is our government’s involvement in the expansion project and the lack of any clear progress being made on routing and power purchase agreements with the existing mines in the Slave Geological Province.
I agree with what some of my colleagues are saying about the routing. Whose interest are we serving when the proposed route goes directly to the diamond mines? Only the shareholders. It will not be in the public’s best interest to pursue this route. My belief is the routing should be or should try to achieve a social component. It should take a route most beneficial to our residents, not just to the shareholders. As a government, we cannot continue to overlook the future infrastructure needs of our residents.
Mr. Speaker, decisions were made in haste on the Deh Cho Bridge. We had a government that committed to a $165 million deal just days before the last election. My fear is, Mr. Speaker, that we have not learned from this mistake.
Like I said yesterday, if we are going to do something, we have to make sure that we are going to do it right. I believe we need to take a look at all of our options in the routing. I am left wondering why all of the focus of Deze and the Hydro Corporation seems to be on the existing mines. Should they not be doing everything in their power to accommodate potential other mineral projects like Avalon’s Nechalacho project that has the potential of being in place for well over 100 years? We have to base decision-making on concrete cost-risk-benefit analysis.
Mr. Speaker, I seek unanimous consent to conclude my statement.
---Unanimous consent granted.
Unlike the Deh Cho Bridge, we have to base decision-making on concrete cost-benefit analysis that will completely take into account all of the environmental, social and economic factors not only for the shareholders but for everyone who lives here in the Northwest Territories. I will have questions for the Premier at the appropriate time. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Like my colleagues today, I would like to chime into the Deze Taltson expansion issue. Mr. Speaker, I feel very strongly that any hydro expansion needs to be based on environmental and economic opportunities. I believe strongly, as well, that this shouldn’t continue to be a direct initiative pursued by our Legislature.
Mr. Speaker, the risk at this time is solely on the shoulders of the GNWT. As I understand it, the cash to date has only come from the GNWT pockets. This Legislature has found ways to waive the PUB review process and with our one-third partnership, I often wonder what’s left for the other two-thirds partnerships to contribute other than to wait for their own dividends.
The question of public accountability continues to be made about who Deze is truly accountable to. With a one-third partnership of Northerners being represented through this House, do we really have accountability? This raises the issue of the lack of accountability for public interests, because it is certainly not seen there.
The business case has been based solely on the fact that the diamond mines will be there to support this project. To date it is my understanding that there is still no power purchasing agreement to be signed. Great rhetoric would hail the fact that if this was such a wonderful opportunity, these diamond mines would be dragging us to the table to sign this deal. I have yet to see their enthusiasm and I keep continuing to hear that they don’t want it and they continue to stall it as long as possible.
We will hear that the east side of the lake route seems to be the best one according to Deze. Let us remind the Members and the public that this is through a national park that only represents the business case of the Deze Corporation.
It is my view that we have never fully and fairly considered the alternative routes that we’re all familiar with: the ones over the Simpson Islands or underneath the water. That may add an additional $20 million to $50 million, but Deze believes, as I understand it, that this is either too much of a cost and the rate of return will either be way too slow or way too low. These routes could provide significant public benefit for everyone. If those costs are true and are being given fair evaluation, we could use that as an opportunity to take a business case to the federal government to say with your assistance we could help to continue lowering the price of power throughout the Northwest Territories, providing assistance to lowering the cost of living throughout the Northwest Territories.
In closing, the hydro dam is a public resource. We need to ensure that the public is seen as a partnership in this resource. I will have questions later today for the Premier.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to join my colleagues today who have very eloquently spoken to the issue of the Deze Energy Corporation. This corporation actually had its origins in a previous government and it does have similarities to the Deh Cho Bridge Corporation.
This was the idea and brainchild of a government and of people who are not any longer sitting at this table. Yet we here as a government... Oh, well, some of them are still here.
---Laughter
The idea of the structure and ownership of this corporation has merit in the fact that I think recognition should be given to the First Nations people on whose land this project will either be transmitted or even those who have an interest in the Taltson. However, to give so much of it away that this government then does no longer have control over what happens makes a mockery of what we’re trying to do here as a government. We have to look out for the public interest; the Deze Energy Corporation does not. We’re here for all the people of the Northwest Territories.
I have to tell you, we talk and boast of our huge hydro potential and all of our resources here in the Northwest Territories, but every time a reasonable project comes up that could benefit in ways that we haven’t even quantified -- employment, training, business, economic opportunities -- what’s the first thing we say is the biggest deterrent? Can’t afford the power. It doesn’t matter if it’s a pellet mill at Patterson’s in Hay River. It doesn’t matter if it’s a processing plant for Avalon at Pine Point. It doesn’t matter what kind of a manufacturing project it is. Every time it comes down to the same common denominator: we can’t afford to do these things in the North because we can’t afford the power bill. Yet here we are with all of this potential for hydro and we have to ensure that this route of transmission of power from the Taltson, once the Taltson dam is expanded, goes on a path and route that picks up the most opportunity possible, serves the most communities, the most people and the most potential for economic development.
Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As we consider the difficulties encountered by the Deh Cho Bridge Project and the resulting financial implications for this government, my mind cannot help but jump to another large project that this government is involved in. Of course, I speak of the Taltson Hydro Expansion Project. I, too, will weigh in on this subject today.
We MLAs have had quite a few briefings and updates on the Taltson project over the last two years that I’ve been here. As I cleaned up my office last week I found a few of those update documents. Interesting reading, they were. As mentioned by Mr. Abernethy yesterday, a prominent component of the project, according to the information we’ve been given, is to examine an interconnected electricity grid. Yesterday the Premier advised the House that an electricity grid is a long-term objective in the government’s Energy Strategy. Fair enough; achieving that objective will certainly take time.
Since 2002 this government has pumped some $13 million into the Taltson project and there’s little sign of any let-up on our giveaways that I can see. What are we getting for the money that we’ve spent? If, as we continually hear, this project is a business enterprise, will the GNWT be paid back for the millions we’ve invested? If we will not, what control do we have over these financial investments? How is that money spent?
A one-third interest in Deze Energy Corporation does not give us much control, from what I can see. The Taltson project is looking more and more like the bridge scenario and I find that very scary. Are we heading down the same path with the Taltson Expansion Project that we followed for the Deh Cho Bridge Project? Will the GNWT once again be left holding the bag of debt for a megaproject, our finance perched precariously on a ledge just waiting for a strong breeze to blow us off into disaster?
In February of last year during a presentation from the Premier on the Taltson Expansion Project one of the bullets stated, “Project needs GNWT backstop for construction.” That sounds way too similar to the parameters of our recently collapsed P3 bridge project. Are we guaranteeing the Taltson project’s debt? What financial safeguards exist for this government in regard to the project and how much are we on the hook for? I will have these and other questions for the Premier at the appropriate time.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Jacobson.
