Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Further to my returns to written questions earlier today I wish to table the following three documents entitled NWT Women Giving Birth - Number of Discharges In and Outside of the NWT 2005-2006 to 2009-2010; Program Enrolments and Graduates for All Nursing Programs Between 1998 and 2011; and Bachelor of Science in Nursing, Enrolments by Ethnicity and Year, 2006-2011.
Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have three letters to table today. The first one is to Minister Sandy Lee from Samuel Gargan, the grand chief of the Dehcho First Nations. The second is to the Honourable Sandy Lee from Nick Sibbeston, the honourable Senator for the Northwest Territories. The third one is to Minister Sandy Lee from Chief Joachim Bonnetrouge from the Deh Gah Got’ie First Nation. All of them are requesting an independent external investigation into the events leading up to Allisdair Leishman’s injuries within Stanton Territorial Hospital.
WHEREAS it is critically important that elders in the Northwest Territories share their knowledge and culture in our schools;
AND WHEREAS elders in most communities are willing to teach the young people in schools, or as part of school programs on the land;
AND WHEREAS the simple presence of supportive elders in school and the high degree of respect that they get adds to students’ sense of security and strengthens their ability to learn;
AND WHEREAS elders should be compensated for their work and time, like anyone else providing a valuable service to the GNWT;
AND WHEREAS the Government of Nunavut has organized the teaching role of elders in schools and made policies for their involvement, including compensation, in its “Innait Inuksiutilirijiit” program;
NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Weledeh, that this Legislative Assembly strongly recommends the Department of Education, Culture and Employment devise a certification program to certify elders to teach in NWT schools in time for the start of the new school year in the fall of 2011.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. A motion is on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion.
Question.
Question has been called. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ll be brief. I want to thank the Member for Weledeh for seconding the motion. I want to say a few comments here to this motion.
In this day and age and with the vast challenges that the youth have with the conflicting values that they are being taught at home and school and what they see on TV, and how the community is running these days, it’s critically important, it’s actually life and death that we start to enrol our elders into schools so that the youth can get valuable teaching and get some of the knowledge that the elders have and have held and want to pass on to the youth. I think the young right now are ready to learn. They’re willing to learn.
When I was up in the Sahtu I would witness some of the students who went out on the land and, man, you should have seen their eyes. They were happy, they were laughing, they were learning out on the land. They just came right to life. There were a lot of them.
The youth are asking and we need to listen to them. When they did a number of programs on the land and the elders were there, things were so good. The young ones are ready to learn. As legislators let’s help them. The elders are waiting to teach them. I think we need to put it together and get them into the schools. We need to get the elders there in time for the fall school year. Let’s put our minds to it and work hard so that all the barriers and things that could prevent them from being in the school, let’s deal with them. Let’s wash them away. I’m asking this government here to do that for the sake of our children’s lives, for the sake of our culture, for the sake of our languages. Let’s get our elders into our system. For too long they’ve been standing outside and being ignored and not being respected.
I ask, the young want these elders, the young need them right away. I’m asking for this motion, let’s create that environment that the elders can come in and out of our schools. Let’s create that environment to live, to know our beliefs and our cultures and our legends and know the value of our elders.
I say let’s do it with respect. Like professors that teach in universities and colleges, these elders are the university professors on the land. They know about life. If we don’t use them, we’re going to lose. Elders have always said that. Listen to us. If you take a part of the story that they tell you, you’re going to live a long life. Elders have said if you’re not going to listen, you’re not going to last too long. It’s very important what the elders say to us. It’s very important that we take what they have to teach us and use that in the future.
I want to say how happy and proud I was to read that Nunavut had this program already and that they were certifying their elders through a certification process. That takes leadership. I think our Minister here has that with the Cabinet to put elders into our school, to get the real professors into our school, the real teachers. So we could do that through our smarts, through the certification and certifying them.
So I want to say I look very forward to the day that we certify elders through a certification program and hopefully we can do it by this fall by getting them into our school and start off a new way to teach our young people.
I do want to thank my seconder Mr. Bromley for this motion here. I look forward to the support from the Assembly to deal with this motion today.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. To the motion. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I too would like to make some very brief comments here. I also would like to give a big nod to the Member for Sahtu for taking the initiative to bring this motion forward.
There is a really key role for elders to play in our schools. I think the Aboriginal achievement programs will recognize that very early on. You don’t have to look beyond the K’alemi Dene School right in Ndilo to see an example with Mrs. Fwasi, 70 years old this year, been in the school for a decade, and there’s a record of achievement there. K’alemi Dene graduated their first grade 12 students this year.
The simple presence of our elders in our community schools brings a security and a learning environment to the students that allows them to click in and start learning not just the languages and cultural benefits they get, which are added dimensions, but it allows them to develop the learning habits with the support of the elders that can lead to academic achievements as well. As the Tlicho have said, a foot in both worlds, the strength of two cultures.
Let’s get our elders in the school. I look forward to all our colleagues supporting this motion.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. To the motion. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Beaulieu.
Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. [Translation] Today I will be talking about education. [Translation ends]
Young citizens are learning how to speak the Chipewyan language, Denesuline, as I walk around the community now much more than it was in the past. Small kids are coming up to me and speaking the language and so on, and I think that putting the elders in the school will only enhance that and make it easy for the elders to communicate with the kids in the school in both Chipewyan and Denesuline and English.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. To the motion. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I rise too in support of the motion for certifying elders in the school. We’re already using it there but it’s just the next level up certifying them and even providing them with some small remuneration. I believe that’s incentive enough. Just the positive experiences that the youth have when they interact with the elders bring a smile to everybody’s face.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. To the motion. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I too rise in support of this motion. I’ve seen the fact that elders have a strong influence and a positive influence on our younger generation and I think at times people have gotten away from it and have missed out on great values that could be taught to them. Some of them are spiritual, but certainly emotional connections to family and practical connections that tend to get missed by people’s thirst for going forward with new technology and forgetting about the past. It’s the things about the past that link us as we go forward to the future to understand it. It’s those types of foundations that give us a good stability in our life, be it family values that are very important to me as well as I know many of the Members here and that type of connection I think is good for everyone. I support this motion and I think it’s a real valued contribution to our schools and certainly our younger generations that we’re trying to support who are following us.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. To the motion. The honourable Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. [Translation] The knowledge of the elders is very important. [Translation ends]
[English translation not provided.]
Mr. Speaker, I would just like to thank the Member for putting this motion forward. As I stated in my language, it is because of the elders of the past and the elders of the present that I still speak my language. I would like to thank them for that. I am a firm believer in having elders in school as well. We do have elders in schools and we’ll continue to provide those services.
I think this motion basically provides us more strength to move forward on what we have done in the past and where we are now. As we move forward, we need to strengthen our stand as the GNWT as the Department of Education, along with the Members, along with the communities, the leadership, the educators in the communities, because it has to start from home, as well, at the community level. We’ve heard over and over at the Aboriginal Student Achievement Initiatives, regions that we visited, that elders should be in schools. They carry the tradition. They carry the stories. We’re firm believers in that and we want to carry that message forward. We need to revive the stories of the past, Mr. Speaker.
The Member alluded to the Government of Nunavut, the elders handbook to support their elders certification initiatives. This is an area that we are exploring and work is underway. Mr. Speaker, this is an initiative that’s before us in various aspects of the work that we do and it’s just giving us more to strengthen our role as a department.
Mr. Speaker, this motion is instruction to government, Cabinet, so we will be abstaining from the vote. Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. To the motion. I’ll allow the mover of the motion closing comments. Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I do want to say that with this motion, hopefully we would legitimatize, I guess, the elders into our education system. We do have them in our schools, yet they’re still struggling in terms of compensating them. They still are nice to have but not really essential. This certification would make it just like a teacher or any other profession in our education system. They will be equal partners. Right now it’s just listen to the elder and if they’re there, they’re there; if not, we’ll do something else. It doesn’t put them on the same level playing field in our education system. This certification would do that. It’s like asking the elders to come to our meetings and say a prayer and then asking them to sit down because we’ve got business to discuss that would not include the elder.
What I’m saying, from our point of view from our small communities, the elders need to take their rightful place in our education system. They need to be in their rightful place in our community. We need to lift them up to a place where they once stood, with high esteem, in our community. Over the years we have put them through a rough system. We have done it ourselves. This motion is one step to move them to their rightful place in our society. They bring that knowledge of truth.
I read in an article in the Calgary Herald the other day that Imperial Oil was discovered by a geologist, Ted Link. I was reading that and that’s what’s printed. I said, oh, my God, do they not know the real truth about the Norman Wells oilfield and the Aboriginal people and the elders that knew about this oilfield for thousands of years? This is how history is portrayed. That’s what this motion will do, is bring the knowledge and the truth so kids who now are able to read, maybe one of them is going to read the newspaper and that’s what he or she is going to believe. The elders will set the road straight and say no, it is the Aboriginal people, the Northwest Territories and Denedeh that knew about the Norman Wells oilfield right down the whole valley. They knew a lot of things that is in their oral tradition. It’s not written. This is what this will do for them such as raising the young ones. The elders will set it right.
Hopefully this Minister, this government can say yes, we can. We will put the elders in through a certificate program, we will design one and have it ready for the fall of 2011, we would do that. That’s how much we owe it to our elders. And we would fix their compensation.
For the last seven years the Minister knows when he was on this side when we were fighting to have elders in. Now he’s on the other side still. So I’m asking the Minister and this government here to put the certificate program in place like Nunavut. Just do it like them. You can do it. We can do it. It’s a matter of all of us here together say yes, and it’s done.
The Member is requesting a recorded vote. All those in favour of the motion, please stand.
Mr. Yakeleya, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Bromley, Mr. Abernethy, Mr. Menicoche, Mr. Ramsay, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Beaulieu, Mr. Hawkins, Mr. Jacobson. Ms. Bisaro.
All those opposed to the motion, please stand. All those abstaining from the motion, please stand.
Mr. Lafferty; Ms. Lee; Mr. Miltenberger; Mr. McLeod, Deh Cho; Mr. McLeod, Inuvik Twin Lakes; Mr. McLeod, Yellowknife South.
Results of the recorded vote: in favour, 11; against, zero; abstaining, six. The motion is carried.
---Carried
The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
WHEREAS on Wednesday, November 4, 2009, Mr. Allisdair “Azzie” Leishman was brought by ambulance to the emergency department at Stanton Territorial Hospital suffering from hypothermia and experiencing a psychiatric episode;
AND WHEREAS while under the care and attention of Stanton Territorial Hospital, Mr. Leishman exited the emergency room and made his way to the kitchen, where he took a knife and inflicted serious injury to himself by stabbing himself in the chest twice;
AND WHEREAS Mr. Leishman remains in extended care at Stanton Hospital to this day;
AND WHEREAS this incident raises questions about how such an incident could occur within Stanton Territorial Hospital, and about the overall safety and security of patients and staff within the hospital;
AND WHEREAS Stanton Territorial Hospital conducted a confidential internal quality management review, or mortality and morbidity review of this incident which contained no recommendations to improve the system or ensure that no similar incident would be allowed to happen;
AND WHEREAS the family of Mr. Leishman have been requesting a comprehensive external investigation which would explain how a patient of Stanton Territorial Hospital could inflict such personal harm while under their care and make binding recommendations which would ensure that a similar incident could not occur;
AND WHEREAS the Minister of Health and Social Services and Stanton Territorial Health Authority continue to deny all requests for an external investigation into this incident;
NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Nahendeh, that this Legislative Assembly strongly recommends that the Minister of Health immediately order an independent, external investigation covering all aspects of the Leishman incident, with recommendations, as necessary, to improve safety and security for all patients and staff and improve the overall quality of care for all patients receiving care within the Stanton Territorial Hospital.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The motion is on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise today requesting that this government conduct an independent external investigation covering all aspects of Mr. Allisdair “Azzie” Leishman’s injuries which occurred while Azzie was a patient being cared for at Stanton Territorial Health Authority.
Mr. Speaker, it is critical that a horrible situation like this help us ensure that nothing like this ever happens again, that Azzie’s incident helps to improve the safety and security of all patients and staff within Stanton as well as help to improve the overall quality of care for all patients receiving care within the Stanton Territorial Hospital.
Mr. Speaker, November 4, 2009, was the day that the Leishman family will never forget. It was the day that Azzie, a helicopter engineer as well as a vibrant father, brother and son, was taken by ambulance to Stanton Territorial Hospital, reportedly suffering from hypothermia. Ultimately, we don’t actually know what was wrong with him. It could have been anything. Regardless, both prior to his arrival and once under the care of the staff of the Stanton Territorial Health Authority, Azzie was clearly experiencing confusion and disorientation. One person referred to it as a psychiatric episode. By all accounts, he was mentally distraught, disoriented, and not acting in a fashion consistent with his normal behaviour and demeanour. It is my understanding that, once he arrived at Stanton, he was put in a room with a door left ajar for monitoring. While in this room, he was monitored, walking in circles and mumbling to himself. At some point, Mr. Speaker, Azzie exited this room and left the emergency room. A short time later, Azzie appeared in the kitchen of the hospital and obtained a knife from somewhere in the kitchen. Non-medical staff was present in the kitchen at this time. Standing in the kitchen, Azzie took a knife and punched it into his chest, not once, Mr. Speaker, but twice. The second stab pierced his heart, severing blood flow to Azzie’s brain.
Mr. Speaker, many things could have happened at this point. A person experiencing psychiatric episodes is unpredictable. In this case, Azzie chose to inflict harm upon himself rather than inflict pain on others. Regardless, it is not unreasonable to assume that if a situation like this were to ever be repeated in Stanton, harm could be inflicted upon staff rather than onto the person with the knife themselves. As such, it is imperative that we understand how such an incident occurred so that we can ensure that it never ever happens again.
Mr. Speaker, at this time, I would like to recognize the incredibly hard work of all the competent and qualified doctors and nurses who jumped into action and did save Azzie’s life. I have no doubt that if they were not there, Azzie wouldn’t be with us today. Their dedication is truly appreciated. They did save his life.
However, as I have said previously, something bad did happen and it is important to learn from it. To learn from it, we must know what happened. We must have a comprehensive non-biased analysis of the event.
I have had a number of conversations with Azzie’s mother, Margaret, since this horrible incident. She has been Azzie’s primary advocate, and has taken it upon herself to be his champion throughout this ongoing ordeal. Margaret has asked continually for clarity on the events that took place in the hospital on November 4, 2009, and how in a place of healing this could have occurred. She wants certainty that it cannot happen again, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, this is why we are having a discussion on this motion today. After an incident like this occurs, hospitals conduct internal quality assurance reviews. These are sometimes referred to as mortality and morbidity reports. This is the normal practice. After Azzie’s stabbing, one of these internal incident investigations was completed. These reports are completely confidential and content is protected by Access to Information. This protection ensures that doctors and nurses and other health care professionals have mechanisms where they can provide input into incidents and provide evidence without adversely affecting their position or professional bodies.
Although individual practitioners are protected, Mr. Speaker, the general findings and recommendations are supposed to be shared with immediate family members. I have talked to Margaret. This was done. In short, this is what she was told by Stanton after they completed the mortality and morbidity investigation into Azzie’s incident: all existing protocols and procedures that exist within Stanton and its emergency department were followed appropriately and no recommendations are required.
Mr. Speaker, let’s be clear. No recommendations are required. How is it possible that a system has learned nothing from this horrible incident? Mr. Speaker, I just don’t buy it. It doesn’t sound reasonable to me, not even a little bit.
Mr. Speaker, you may not believe this, given the fact that I am the one moving this motion, but I do believe that staff did nothing wrong. I have a huge amount of respect for health professionals throughout the system. They have one of the hardest jobs that I can imagine and provide a critical service in a complicated environment. The stress must be significant. Fortunately, they are professionals who continue to provide an incredibly high level of service, regardless of the challenges we face here in the North.
When the mortality and morbidity investigation claims it did nothing wrong and the staff followed all of the procedures and protocols within Stanton, I accept this. I believe this could be true. What I don’t accept, Mr. Speaker, is that policy, procedures and protocols accepted by Stanton meet the needs and potential situations that could arise, that no improvements can be made as a result of this horrible incident is unreasonable. If nothing else, Mr. Speaker, Azzie’s ability to stab himself in the heart in Stanton’s kitchen with Stanton’s knife while under Stanton’s care and treatment suggests clearly that there are some gaps in the policies, procedures and protocols utilized at Stanton Territorial Hospital. For this reason, the suggestion that no recommendations are required is nothing but insulting to the family and to anybody else who has a reasonable expectation that policies and procedures are expected to ensure safety and security of staff and patients within the facility.
Mr. Speaker, a mortality and morbidity quality assurance investigation is conducted by the institution on the institution itself. I am not sure that, in this case, the institution has demonstrated a subjective perspective. As such, it is imperative that an external investigation be conducted.
I and my colleagues have requested a copy of the quality assurance investigation. We have been told no. We have also been made completely aware of the confidential nature of these reports and the importance with respect to health providers for keeping these reports closed. I accept their arguments for keeping these reports confidential. As such, we are not actually today asking for the department to open these reports. Rather, we believe that an independent external investigation is what is truly required of this situation. We aren’t asking Stanton to conduct another investigation into themselves. That would be like asking a fox to take care of the henhouse. That has already been done. We all know how that turned out. Mr. Speaker, precedents exist from other jurisdictions for external investigations in similar situations.
To this end, I would like to draw a couple comparisons within other jurisdictions where incidents occurred within a health care system that requires independent, non-facility-based investigations to ensure transparency, enhanced public and employee safety.
Mr. Speaker, the first comparison is from Alberta. On Friday, September, 17, 2010, a 34-year old man entered into the Royal Alex emergency room. He told the nurse at the triage desk he was suicidal. He was put in a regular emergency room without tightened security. He was checked every 40 minutes. Every hour he came out and asked the staff for a counsellor. At noon the following day, he came out and asked for a pencil and a piece of paper. Later that day, 12 hours after he arrived, he was found hanging from a lamp in his room by a strap from his backpack, a note and a pencil by his side. To their credit, Alberta Health Authority, not the Royal Alex Hospital, completed a comprehensive investigation into the incident. In the end, they admitted mistakes were made. As a result of this review, recommendations for improvements were made within Royal Alexandra as well as across the entire Alberta health system. Mr. Speaker, the family went on record stating that they originally thought the government would do a complete cover-up. Instead the family feels that the government was very honest. The family was told that they would eventually receive copies of the investigation report. Honesty and transparency, Mr. Speaker, not cover-ups. The Leishmans would like the same level of respect.
Mr. Speaker, my second comparison, a double amputee from Manitoba with a speech problem was found dead in a wheelchair after waiting 34 hours for care at a Health Sciences Centre in Winnipeg. The man died as a result of a blood infection brought on by complications of a bladder infection caused by a blocked catheter. His death could have been prevented if the blood infection had been treated. Initially, the local Minister of Health in Manitoba and hospital administration indicated that the incident was unfortunate but as a result of the individual not registering at the admitting desk. In short, the individual was responsible for his own demise.
Many people raised concerns about the issue, including the man’s family. They wanted to know what happened. Ultimately, the man told a health authority refused to release much of the requested information. Afterwards, the incident was reviewed by the medical examiner. As a note, in the NWT, we don’t have a medical examiner. Instead we have a coroner. The medical examiner’s report indicated the man did check into the triage desk at the hospital, that patients and security staff within the waiting room attempted to bring the man’s pain and physical labour to the attention of staff, that regardless of the man registering in accordance with hospital policies and procedure, the man died in the waiting room 34 hours after checking in. The findings were radically different from the Minister and hospital’s original assertions that this was the man’s fault.
Why is this important to the incident currently before us? It shows that internal investigations don’t always result in the most comprehensive and accurate findings. That errors in perception can occur when you’re looking into your own affairs, that having external bodies assist with assessing situations in the best interests of the public as a whole help assure transparency. Without knowing what truly happened and how it could have happened, we don’t have the ability to make reasonable recommendations that will result in fixing holes in our system.
Another interesting fact of the case in Manitoba is that the family has filed a complaint with the Manitoba ombudsman’s office. They continue to try to learn more about the events leading up to the death of this man. Unfortunately it appears that although the medical examiner has provided his findings, the regional health authority continues to refuse to provide the family with information on the horrible incident, and it sounds familiar to me. Because Manitoba has an ombudsman office, their residents have a mechanism to raise concerns about government services. An ombudsman’s office will help this family find out what went wrong within the system and help the system ensure that it never happens again. In the NWT, we have no ombudsman’s office. The Leishman’s have far fewer opportunities or mechanisms available to them to help them learn the truth. They have fewer mechanisms to help them feel confident that the system, or Stanton in this case, has learned from this horrible incident and that staff and patients will be safer in the future.
Mr. Speaker, like in Manitoba, it is critical that we know how Azzie’s incident occurred. What holes exist in our system that allowed a patient to harm himself in such a significant manner? Without knowing the answers, how can we as politicians and the public at large have any confidence that the necessary changes to Stanton’s policies, protocols and procedures are being made to ensure that this never happens again? Better yet, how can our Minister and the Stanton Territorial Hospital have any confidence an incident like this will not happen again? If holes are identified and changes are made, they should share this information with us and give us confidence that the public and staff safety is a priority for this Minister and this authority. Public and staff safety must be of paramount importance to us all. Mr. Speaker, these examples are different from Azzie’s situation in one critical way: both of these men died; Azzie is still alive.
This leads me to my last point of consideration, which is often the most difficult to contemplate. Mr. Speaker, if Azzie had passed away as a result of his injuries, there would have been a coroner’s inquest here in the Northwest Territories. It would have been independent, it would have been external and it would have been an external investigation covering all aspects of the Azzie incident, with recommendations, as necessary, to improve safety, security for all patients and staff and help to improve the overall quality of care for all patients receiving care within the Stanton Territorial Hospital. There is little doubt in my mind that the coroner’s report would have identified some gaps in Stanton’s policies, protocols and procedures. I believe it would have made recommendations to help close these gaps in the best interest of the public and staff.
Mr. Speaker, transparency, openness and honesty are required in this situation. Both Margaret and I look forward to support on this motion from my colleagues, and let’s encourage the Minister of Health and Social Services to do the right thing. Thank you for your time and for your consideration.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. To the motion. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I am pleased to second the motion put forward by Mr. Abernethy here today to request an external and independent investigation as to what happened to Allisdair Leishman. I also support the mother, Margaret Leishman, a mother who just wants answers. I have seen her lobby efforts over the past year and I am really confounded that our system only gave her cursory answers and was unwilling to share any information with her.
I was involved in private industry for many, many years and anytime there was an incident, you always do an incident report or you do a post-mortem to learn from how to better yourselves, how it won’t happen again, how to prevent it, and in this case the system said yes, they’ve done it, but they’re not willing to share it with anybody else. In our government we should be more transparent and work together for the betterment of everybody and that’s all that motion calls for and that’s all the mother is calling for as well.
So, once again, I look forward to support from colleagues as we move this forward and once again it’s just calling for an independent, external investigation to get the answers out and I don’t know why we had to do it in the House like this, but here it is and we have to do the right thing, Mr. Speaker. Mahsi cho.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. To the motion. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise to support this motion. It’s a terribly tragic situation and one which deserves an impartial and an honest and external investigation. I find it impossible to believe that in this situation that there are not some policies, some protocols, some procedures at the hospital that should be amended so that this doesn’t happen again. I support my colleague Mr. Abernethy in his request that we have this investigation so that it does not happen in the future to anybody else, and it’s entirely possible that without any changes to what’s going on at the hospital at this particular time, that we will have harm to another person or another person will harm one or more other people. So I really feel strongly that this is a valid request and I would hope that the government would see to, and the Minister would see to, acceding to this request. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. To the motion. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ve known most of the Leishman family most of my life; actually and I grew up with many of them, including Allisdair.
I could not put into words in any way the feelings and emotions that the Leishman family are going through in this particular case, nor will I try. This is quite a powerful experience that they’re going through and let us try to imagine in a way how horribly this has changed their whole life forever.
Allisdair, I remember him well playing hockey and I still envision him with the smile and excitement and jest he’s had. He’s was a great guy. I knew his brother Ian extremely well, and who I always looked forward to seeing whenever I’d cross the ferry in Providence and I’d look forward to talking to him every time, and I know the family and I’d like to think that they’ve been good friends of mine for many years. I almost feel like hearing that the system has decided to deny them, perhaps, the truth, or the justice that they rightly deserve is not reflective of the values I believe in.
I think that with much consideration and concern, I’m worried about the impact of how this motion goes. I’m certainly worried about the impact that this has had on the family and I don’t deny that these are circumstances I probably could never comprehend.
Mr. Speaker, the primary message in this motion that I keep reading when I heard it -- and I thank Mr. Abernethy for bringing it forward -- is that people want answers. It’s hard to imagine that the mortality and morbidity review could come up with nothing. Mr. Speaker, no recommendations almost seems appalling. I mean, not even general ones, not even big ones, nothing. It’s hard to imagine that this type of incident could happen and no one could find one thing to improve in the system.
Mr. Speaker, I’m completely surprised; and surprise probably in no way puts the feelings of the family into perspective. I’m sure they’re outraged.
Mr. Speaker, speaking of outrage, you don’t have to look far into other examples. Mr. Abernethy mentioned about hospital examples about people reviewing themselves and the problems that can arise, but our country as a nation has swelled quite in an aggressive manner against police forces that review themselves and always the fear of it being biased or protectionist in some way and that that had changed and the lessons learned just from that alone of saying that people want a clear and objective review. I don’t think that’s in the context of saying that if you review your own agency, whether it’s a hospital or whatnot, you’ll make bad decisions or decisions to cover up. I think what it does is provide quality assurance that if you have clear eyes, you’re unfettered by any type of decision or outcome of those results that the families can be somewhat satisfied. They may not like it, but they can be somewhat satisfied that there was a clear effort to understand the situation and certainly make change.
The answers the family received -- I want to thank Margaret and Faith for coming to my office to talk to me the other day -- I think are left wanting. The more I think about it and the more I even try to comprehend the particular issue of how it happened, I can only imagine the family still feels a loss in the sense of trying to explain or understand the situation.
We need a policy that is reflective of our values. The motion is only a half step forward. We need a policy that reflects full disclosure so that families will be able to understand the situation, will be able to work to healing, will be able to work to understanding what happened. Again, as I said, maybe the results of full disclosure may not be the ones they want to hear, but honesty is something they will cherish for many years going forward.
It’s sad nothing will change this horrible accident. It’s a horrible thing. But how do we look forward? It’s difficult to look forward with no lessons learned in this particular situation. I view it as not necessarily a situation of just trying to find fault to pin blame on somebody. It’s also a situation of trying to figure out how we ensure that this doesn’t happen again. It’s been said already.
Undeniably many of us, especially myself, ran for office to change the status quo. I can’t imagine anybody here not feeling that way. I feel that the way this report is sealed and locked down and the family’s denied what I would say is the truth of the situation, by allowing that, we’re just protecting the status quo and I think that’s not why many of us, especially myself, made the challenge to come here.
In closing, I just want to say that I have lasting worry and concern for the strain that this family will carry. This is a grey cloud that had burdened their life back in November 2009. I think answers, true answers, honest answers, will bring some closure to this family as they go forward. I think the family deserves that.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. To the motion. Next I have Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all I want to thank very much my colleague Mr. Abernethy, MLA for Great Slave, for his determination in bringing this motion forward. It’s not an easy thing to do and I think he has shown a lot of courage and conviction in bringing this issue forward to the House today in an effort to get some answers for the family. I couldn’t agree with him more in his statement that the family deserves answers.
Stanton has to be taken to task for providing answers. We owe it to the public that we serve to have answers provided to that family. It’s this family in this case and, God forbid, that an incident like this takes place again at that hospital. We have to make sure that we are doing the best that we can to provide not only safety for the patients at that hospital but for the staff that work there and for the public that go there.
The answers might not be easy to come by but I think the Minister certainly should order an external investigation into this matter sooner rather than later. To me it’s a shame that it’s come to this. The Minister and the government should have done the right thing: listened to the family. If the family wanted an external investigation into what happened to their brother, their son, they should have got that. They should have got that respect from this government. They didn’t. Again, I’m very glad that my colleague Mr. Abernethy has brought this motion forward today and I certainly will be supporting the motion.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. To the motion. Mr. Yakeleya.
