Does the committee agree?
Agreed.
I thank you, committee. I’ll now ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.
Thank you. Minister Miltenberger, can you please introduce your witnesses.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Margaret Melhorn, deputy minister of Finance; Sandy Kalgutkar, deputy secretary to the Financial Management Board. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger, and welcome to the witnesses. I will now open the floor to general comments on Tabled Document 46-16(5), Supplementary Estimates No. 3, 2010-2011 (Infrastructure Expenditures). Are there any general comments? Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. In regard to the Building Canada funds and the funds that we received from Ottawa, I noted that there are a lot of cost overruns associated with that program. I’d just like to know from the Minister exactly what are we doing to…because the issue I have a problem with, especially in this government, is that we have a new system and every time a community asks for assistance from this government, they’re saying, oh well, you get gas tax money so you should offset that cost from your gas tax money, and if the government is now saying, well, we’re not responsible, but yet I noted from a lot of these expenditures, which are over and above the expenditures of those items as they were presented by way of the Building Canada funds and also matching the funds from communities. So I’d just like to know from the department, have we set a precedent here in regards to a notion that you go to a community and tell them sorry, we can’t help you, but we’re able to help out other communities by investing government funds over and above the obligation that we have under gas tax? So I’d just like to know, if that’s the case we should ensure that we offer that to all communities regardless of the situation that they’re in since the precedent is now set.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I understand the question correctly, I just want to reassure the Member that the process we have in terms of flowing money to communities, gas tax money or stimulus money, is done according to an agreed to formula and process and we’ve honoured that and continue to honour that. Unless the Member can give me a specific example, I’m not clear how to respond to this from a point any further than that. Thank you.
Just a couple that jump out at me is the bypass road in regard to Yellowknife where there was an arrangement in place. Apparently the project went over budget so this government came along and helped them out there. The same thing with the Inuvik paving project, which again, those large municipalities receive a majority of the gas tax money based on population, but yet when it comes to communities with dust control and those types of issues, realizing that communities don’t have the capacity to make any major capital investment dealing with chipseal or dust control, we don’t seem to have the ability to assist them. But yet, where they should have the ability to pay for these expenditures by way of their municipal gas tax that they do get because of the population it seems like they still continue to get dollars through this program. Thank you.
The issue of dust control in the small communities is one that is on, and continues to be on, the table of the Rural and Remote Committee and we’re looking at some options for this year. In the past, once again, it’s not clear to me and I don’t have any information at the level the Member is asking about in terms of a possible Inuvik paving overrun or the other item or project that he mentioned. Thank you.
Maybe the Minister can check with his advisors. Have there been cost overruns on those two projects where the government had to come in with the dollars to ensure those projects went ahead?
With your indulgence, once again, I’d like to refer this question to Minister Robert C. McLeod. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. We’ll go to Minister Robert C. McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The communities have contributed money to these particular projects. The bypass road, I know the municipal government, the City of Yellowknife, contributed a significant amount of money. The one in Inuvik, it wasn’t a cost overrun. They had an application in. These were all application based. They had an application in and because of the cancellation of another project, the decision was made to make another contribution of I think it was $263,000 or $303,000, but their share of it. They’ve paid over $3 million out of their own budget for this particular project. It was application based; they met all of the criteria of the projects. As far as cost overruns, I know the Inuvik ones for sure there was not a cost overrun. I’d have to follow up on the Yellowknife one, but it would be the municipal governments put in their share of it and the rest came from the Building Canada Plan. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. In regard to the Inuvik Paving Project, the estimate for the project was basically $2.8 million, which the federal share was $349,000. Out of that there was a shared cost between the territorial government and the municipal government of $2.45 million. So I’d like to know what is the breakdown for that particular amount in regard to the infrastructure funding that was allocated.
Thank you. The federal government’s share was exactly as the Member pointed out and the balance came from the municipal government.
Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to comment briefly on the $135.9 million in carry-overs for infrastructure projects. I’ve given the government credit in the past for its infrastructure plan and the new way it looks at capital projects. Maybe what I’m really looking for is a comment from the government on this. Even at 34 percent, it’s still a large number that we’re looking at carrying over. It’s $136 million. I’m just wondering if we have a game plan going forward. I know we’re going to revert back to more historic numbers a couple years from now and that’s $75 million a year in capital, but what is the plan for getting this money out the door and getting these projects done? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The capital plan, all these projects are on the books. They, to one degree or another, have work underway and we’re going to continue to conclude those, carry them forward and hopefully conclude them. If they’re single year and if they’re multi-year, we’ll deal with those over the proposed life expectancy in addition to the projects we have this year. We’ll be working very hard to make sure that we don’t exceed the 34 percent overall that we carried over for two years in a row now. Thank you.
I guess, if I could, I’d like to see us, you know, we’ve got 16 months left to try to get as much of this money out there as we possibly can in the next 16 months and get it working for the people and the economy here in the Northwest Territories. Maybe if the Minister could just comment on whether or not the government believes that the majority of our capital plan, what remains in the capital plan including the carry-overs will be concluded prior to October 2011. Thank you.
With your indulgence again, I’d ask Minister Michael McLeod to speak to the broader system of capital planning through Public Works and Services.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Minister Michael McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, as the Members are aware, we have changed our system in the last few years to become more efficient and have our capital plan delivery more effective. We’re certainly starting to see the results of that. We’ve had a very large capital budget for the last couple of years and it’s been, I think, still proven that we can move these forward. We have a fairly large carry-over. Percentage-wise it’s not as large as what we’ve had historically, but I can confirm to the Member that I think in excess of 90 percent of these projects are signed off, are in the system and they’re moving forward. So we should see these all dealt with in this coming year.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. Any more general comments? Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a quick question. I understand that the stimulus dollars cannot be carried over beyond this coming March 31st. If that’s true, I’m wondering, do we have assurance that those dollars will be completely expended this fiscal year. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It’s planned to have all that federal money expended within the time frames allocated, pointing out, once again, I think that we were probably one of the most successful jurisdictions when it came to taking full access of the opportunities that we had with the stimulus fund. Thank you.
I may have missed it, but how much of the stimulus dollars have we carried over into this year?
Mr. Minister. Mr. Kalgutkar.
I’m going to have to commit to getting that information to the Member. Thank you.
I appreciate that offer and I’ll take Mr. Kalgutkar up on that. I think the main point is we need to be on top of that, because these dollars will disappear at the end of this fiscal year. It’s not usually, or often at least, that we have the opportunity to carry them over and this is sort of that last kick at getting those spent in a productive way. So we need to be on top of that and I appreciate that offer.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Not really a question but more of a comment. Are there any more general comments? Is committee agreed that there are no further general comments?
Agreed.
Does committee agree to proceed to the detail of the departments?
Agreed.
Detail begins on page 5. Page 5, Municipal and Community Affairs, operations expenditures, community operations, not previously authorized, $16.221 million.
Agreed.
Regional operations, not previously authorized, $10.388 million.
Agreed.
Total department, not previously authorized, $26.609 million.
Agreed.
We’ll move along to page 6, Health and Social Services, operations expenditures, community health programs, not previously authorized, $440,000.
Agreed.
Total department, not previously authorized, $440,000. Mr. Krutko.
Can the Minister give us the total price so far for this project in regard to the dementia centre?
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’d ask to refer that question to Minister Lee.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Minister Lee.
