Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Department of Health and Social Services has the O&M money to enter into a lease, and the capital that is before you is for the tenant improvements. Health had the authorization to enter into the lease, they had the money, and now it’s the capital that’s required to undertake the tenant improvements and the proper fit-ups and put the equipment in place to operate the consolidated clinic.
Mr. Ramsay.
Mr. Chairman, I would think the department would come before the Legislative Assembly and get authority for the leasehold improvements before it would sign a lease. That would, to me, make more sense.
I guess a couple of other questions. The lease that has been signed, how long is it, how much is it for, and how big is the space? I’ve heard 1,800 square metres. Where is it going to be, Mr. Chairman?
The Minister of Finance.
Mr. Chairman, that’s not a part of the capital item. We don’t have that information with us, but we can commit to getting that information for committee.
I thank the Minister of Finance for that. Maybe the Minister of Health would have that level of detail with her today.
Mr. Chairman, I will defer to the Minister of Health to see if she has any further information as per the question by the Member for Kam Lake.
Minister of Health, Ms. Lee.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have answered one part of that question: 1,843 square metres of space is what we are looking for. I believe we have acquired that with 25 parking spots. It is in the downtown location.
I would also concur with Minister Miltenberger that we will get back to the Member on the details of the lease agreement signed. I would think that there is a provision in there that it’s subject to approval of this House.
I don’t know if it’s subject to approval of the House. The department has already signed it, so that’s neither here nor there.
You know, what we are talking about today is a capital expense of a substantial amount of money. I, too, like Mrs. Groenewegen, would like to hear from the Minister, whether it’s the Minister of Finance or the Minister of Health, what equipment can possibly be migrated from the current clinics over to the new clinic. Are we are going to be buying everything new? What are we going to do with the old equipment? Is it possible we could sell some of the old equipment?
It was just four years ago that we spent close to half a million dollars on Great Slave Medical House. I know it was federal dollars, but that doesn’t make it okay to spend money that is not going to have much utility to us if we are shortly signing a lease and moving to a consolidated clinic downtown.
Now, I am supportive of the consolidated clinic. I think it’s a move in the right direction, but the right steps have to be followed in order for that to happen. I don’t know. Again, I have some concern over the fact that the lease was signed prior to the Minister coming before the House to get approval for the capital expense on that. I am not sure why the Minister wouldn’t tell us where it is. I am not sure why that’s a big secret, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Chairman, I will once again defer to the Minister of Health and Social Services.
Minister of Health, Ms. Lee.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would undertake to make that…. I mean, this is a situation where we don’t want to be making announcements without having gone through the debate here. So it is sort of a catch-22 situation.
I just want to say on the equipment that the most expensive part is the new services the new primary clinic will deliver, such as scan machines and X-ray machines and lab tech machines that are not available in the existing clinic.
The second thing, for those who know about these three existing clinics — with the possible exception of Great Slave — Gibson Clinic and Family clinic are very, very old. All of the furniture in there is quite old. I mean, I don’t think we are talking about chairs and tables that are the expensive items; it’s the new health equipment we will have in the new primary clinic, because it will deliver new services that are not being delivered by current clinics.
I assure the Member that we will be vigilant in making sure that anything the clinics take with them will not be replaced with new money. I know that the most expensive part of the equipment is the new imaging machines and lab tech machines that will be purchased for that clinic.
I thank the Minister for that. There is probably a tremendous amount of equipment if you look at the three clinics that are currently in operation. If the new clinic can’t use it, I have been to a number of health centres in small communities that are in desperate need of any equipment. We should put that equipment to the best use possible. It shouldn’t just end up being thrown out or end up at a government surplus facility. If it can be used in the small communities and it has some usefulness, it should be sent there as soon as it can be.
Again, if we signed the lease three months ago, I am having trouble understanding why it is that we can’t talk about where that lease was signed and what the new location of the consolidated primary care clinic is in Yellowknife. It is beyond me why we can’t discuss that here. I’ve heard rumours about where it is, but I want the Minister to confirm where this consolidated care clinic is going to be. I mean, the lease was signed three months ago. What’s the big secret?
Mr. Chairman, the RFP went out in July, and I believe the lease was negotiated at the end of last month, so it hasn’t been signed for three months. The location is in between Wycliffe Centre and the mall, that area.
Next on the list I have Mr. Bromley and Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I also wanted to speak up very clearly in favour of moving forward on this consolidated primary care clinic. I compliment the departments for moving forward and getting this lease established. I hope we can move very quickly on the capital items, assuming it is approved shortly here, and get operational.
One of the reasons I’m pleased this is moving forward and hope it moves forward quickly and efficiently is that we have a hope that this will resolve some of the situations we are facing at the Stanton hospital, where the emergency room deals with much that could be dealt with at a clinic like this. Further to that, my understanding is that this clinic would operate long hours, perhaps around the clock.
One of the big issues that has been raised at Stanton emergency is the security issue. We have all heard horror stories about what is happening out there and what can happen, what the potential is. We are hoping that people will quickly adopt this facility in downtown Yellowknife, but I want to know that some thought has been given to designing the facility to be secure if it is going to operate during nighttime hours in downtown Yellowknife. That’s the reality of today’s world. I am wondering if the Minister could share evidence that this is so, that this facility is being designed to be secure and attractive to emergency patients.
This consolidated clinic will be designed to meet all the appropriate standards in terms of patient care, patient safety, staff safety, safety of the equipment and the records. The traffic flow will be laid out in such a way that it is going to maximize the effective use of the space. At the same time, this addresses some of the issues the Member for Weledeh has raised.
Thank you, Minister, for those remarks. Often at the hospital, in the emergency rooms there, because the way locks are on the doors and so on, it can lead to very dangerous situations for the medical staff. I am assuming all that is being addressed in the design of this space. Is that correct?
To the best of my knowledge, yes, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to ask a question relative to the Stanton hospital master plan. The capital budget for 2008–2009 indicated funding for the Stanton master plan, and I don’t see it in the 2009–2010 Capital Estimates. I wonder if I can get an explanation as to why.
Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The master development plan hadn’t progressed to the point where we were able to tie up the amount of money that was initially identified in the budget, so it was temporarily removed from the capital plan. When the development plan is fully ready to roll, then we will be looking at reintroducing it back into the plan.
Thank you for that answer. I would like to ask the Minister if there is an estimate of time as to when this particular project will come back into the Capital Estimates.
I would ask your indulgence, Mr. Chairman, and defer to the Minister of Health and Social Services.
Minister of Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The master plan has been redeveloped with a focus on the seven critical areas. The department feels that we do have a workable plan worked out now. We will go through the new capital planning process, which has a committee made up of officials who will review this and put it back into the capital planning process. It will progress along with all the other projects that will be put into it that are ready with a concrete plan. This project is at that stage.
I don’t believe I heard an estimate of when this might come back to us — if it’s three months, three years or 30 years. I would appreciate if the Minister of Health would give me a bit better idea of when we might see this project back in the capital estimates.
I’m not sure of that. It’s in the mix to be considered for next year’s planning projects.
Thank you for that answer. I will presume that if it’s not ready, it’s not going to come forward, but I appreciate the estimate of next year.
I wanted to also ask a question relative to the Stanton hospital technical upgrades. Has there been any change in that particular project from the Capital Estimates that we saw last year to the estimates we are going through this year?
Mr. Aumond.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is really the last year of the technical upgrades. The change the Member is referring to, I believe, is that there were a couple more years of upgrades on the books in ’08–09. I don’t have the information with me, but the decision was made to continue with upgrades in ’09–10 for $800,000. Until we get the master development plan finished and we understand what the bigger picture around Stanton is, then that would be the time to fold in what would be remaining of the technical upgrades, if any, into the master development plan project for the renovation of the hospital.
It’s difficult to ask questions under this new process, but I am given to understand there was a fairly large reduction in the amount of money that is earmarked for the upgrades in this particular capital budget year compared to last year. I guess I just would like clarification from the Minister or from the deputy minister that the reference was made to putting things back in, in terms of technical upgrades once the master development plan is done. I would like to know if what is going to go back in is a minimal amount of money or a fairly large amount of money; i.e., $500,000 versus several million.
We have, I believe, taken the technical upgrades over the last several years at Stanton. Over $10 million of upgrades have gone into the hospital over the last number of years, to the point where I think everybody is generally satisfied as to the technical operations of the building. With respect to the upgrades it is where it needs to be.
In ’09–10 we’ll be finishing the last of the major overhauls to the elevators and the biomedical waste handling and temporary storage areas. What needs to happen in the future, under the master development plan and with respect to technical upgrades, at this point I am not sure. But a decision was made. Rather than continue to pick away at upgrades that don’t need to be done right now, we would wait until we have the master development plan completed and then fold it into the project and undertake them all at the same time.
I thank you for the explanation. I look forward to seeing more expenditures for Stanton upgrades at some point in the future.
I just want to make a general comment. When we made general comments, there was a response from one of the witnesses relative to the fact that we prioritize projects, giving them a number 1, 2 or 3, I gather. I think it was referencing projects other than the ones we are actually discussing.
The fact that we evaluate projects in terms of need is, I think, excellent, and I commend the staff for the work they do there. One of the difficulties I experience as a Member looking at these projects is not knowing how to prioritize one project over another.
Just a suggestion that if it works, perhaps they consider prioritizing and putting a number on a project to indicate the priority, whether it’s a priority 1, 2, 3 or 4. It might assist us in understanding how decisions are made, whether projects come forward or not, or why one project is moved forward ahead of another one.
Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Clearly, this is a new arrangement process. We’ll be doing a review of how the process worked and how best to present the information. In the substantiation sheets provided to committee, that type of information was provided. If it’s not properly laid out, of course we will be happy to look and make whatever improvements the Members deem appropriate.
Just one last quick comment. I guess I missed it when I was looking at the substantiation sheet, but it would help me particularly if that kind of a priority number was put into the capital estimate document or such other kinds of consolidated material we receive.
We’ll be happy to consider that adjustment for the next go-round.
We are on page 5-4, Health and Social Services, Health Services Programs, Infrastructure Investment Summary, Total Infrastructure Investment Summary: $16.003 million.
Department of Health and Social Services, Activity Summary, Health Services Programs, Infrastructure Investment Summary, Total Infrastructure Investment Summary: $16.003 million, approved.
Moving on to page 5-7, Health and Social Services, Activity Summary, Community Health Programs, Infrastructure Investment Summary, Total Infrastructure Investment Summary: $4.781 million.
Department of Health and Social Services, Activity Summary, Community Health Programs, Infrastructure Investment Summary, Total Infrastructure Investment Summary: $4.781 million, approved.
Moving on to page 5-10, Health and Social Services, Activity Summary, Program Delivery Support, Infrastructure Investment Summary, Total Infrastructure Investment Summary: $3.690 million.
Department of Health and Social Services, Activity Summary, Program Delivery Support, Infrastructure Investment Summary, Total Infrastructure Investment Summary: $3.690 million, approved.
Going back to Department Summary, page 5-2, Health and Social Services, Infrastructure Investment Summary, Total Infrastructure Investment Summary: $24.474 million.
Department of Health and Social Services, Department Summary, Infrastructure Investment Summary, Total Infrastructure Investment Summary: $24.474 million, approved.
Moving on to the Department of Justice, page 6-2, Department Summary, moving forward to 6-4, Community Justice and Corrections, Activity Summary, Infrastructure Investment Summary, Total Infrastructure Investment Summary: $921,000. Before we go to Ms. Bisaro, we’ll just take a five-minute break.
The Committee of the Whole took a short recess.
I’ll call Committee of the Whole back to order. Before the short break we were at the Department of Justice, Community Justice and Corrections, and on the list I have Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a question with regard to the Inuvik young offender facility. It is indicated that there are foundation issues with that building, which I believe we were made aware of last year. At the time that we considered the capital and the O&M budgets last year, there was a promise, I believe, to do an evaluation of that facility along with other Justice facilities.
I’m just wondering whether this Minister can advise as to the status of this particular facility, whether or not it can still be used as a secure facility, and if there’s a point in spending money on the foundation issues if it can’t be used as a correctional facility.
Mr. Aumond.
We have, I guess, a first draft of the engineering report that indicates what the problems are with the foundation and how we can mitigate ongoing problems. We think we can fix the foundation. If we fix the foundation, that should take care of the issues that are impacting the facility today. I can only speak to a building perspective; I can’t speak to whether that facility would be useful for Justice or for the correctional program for the long term. Only Justice can answer that.
Thank you for the answer. I wonder if the Finance Minister would commit to passing this kind of a question on to the Minister of Justice, who isn’t able to be here, and if we could get that information back from some Minister of this House.
