Mr. Speaker, I do appreciate the Member’s concern. It is one of the issues I am working on: how to bring the control and the…. I do agree with the Member that the best solutions in healing and grieving and wellness are to be found in communities. I do agree with the Member that we need to revisit the way we are doing that. I’m willing to do that, and I’m willing to work on the proposal and present that to the Members and the Standing Committee on Social Programs.
My people were very happy to hear the Minister’s response in terms of her belief in taking healing programs into our backyard, on the land. I’d ask the Minister if she would commit to sitting down with her colleagues through the various initiatives that they have. It’s not to expand bureaucracy or to add another wish list to this government; it’s to see how we can coordinate different initiatives from the different departments. Can you come up with, say, $5,000 to $10,000 for a pilot project in the Sahtu or any other region that would help people in our own way? That is the commitment I ask of the Minister today.
Yes, I’d be happy to work with the Member on that. Sahtu, as a health authority and health and social services region, has been working really well to improve programs and services there. In order to make real investments, though, and to make a difference and build capacity in communities, we need to do more than just find one program money here, one program money there. I’m interested in changing the policy to see how we could build capacity and put real focus in healing and wellness at the community level. I am working on the proposal, and I look forward to working with the Members as we go forward.
I look forward to the Minister’s proposal.
Would the Minister look at our wellness workers in the Sahtu region in terms of hiring elders, hiring well established people in the community who know the people very well? I just want to say that we do have good mental health workers when they come into a region; however, it causes some very difficult challenges for us. Would the Minister look at hiring well established community workers in our communities?
Those are the levels of detail that we have to work through. As the Members know, we have not had a chance to review our first full functioning business plan, where we could introduce new programs and revisit the old programs. That’s something we’ll be able to do in the month of November. I look forward to working on a new proposal and working with the Members.
Thank you, Ms. Lee. Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.
An elder at Thomas Manuel said to me, “We have a very simple solution. If we could hire one or two people in our community, we can get the job done.” But we seem to go into a bureaucracy where we have to bring in outside workers — some of them are very good — to work in our communities. So I ask the Minister again on those details: would she commit to hiring local people who have the expertise and the knowledge in the language of our people and the knowledge of our land to work with our people in an aboriginal context that would serve our people in the best ways?
Yes, I do agree that the local community individuals and organizations and leadership have to be at the forefront in dealing with this issue. I would be happy to make that commitment to work in that way toward that.
Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In regard to my Member’s statement I made reference to different land claim agreements and, more importantly, the investment those land claim organizations make by way of capital investment. They buy properties from the private sector with regard to retail properties. They’ve made a lot of investment in purchasing these facilities in Inuvik. They’ve gone out of their way to retrofit those buildings, bring them up to standard codes and whatnot. Yet it seems like the whole investments that were made could be a loss because of a government project. Nowhere has this government made an attempt to ensure that those investments that were made by the land claim organizations are going to be protected in any way. If anything, they’re at risk now because of a government initiative.
I’d like to ask the Premier: exactly where do we stand as a government to protect the private sector’s investments, especially those of land claim organizations that invest tens of millions of dollars to get into a certain sector and then find out that the government is competing against them in that particular sector?
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The Hon. Premier, Mr. Roland.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First and foremost, for the record, we have been living up to the commitments through the land claims. One of those examples is the MOUs we’ve signed with the Gwich’in in the past. We’re negotiating with the Sahtu, the Inuvialuit. But those are separate from land claims. That’s a process we’ve entered into to try and work with the corporations so that they can build up capacity in our communities in the North. We must recognize that.
Specifically in the community of Inuvik — and the Member has talked about the office space situation — 93 per cent of the space that is used by the Government of the Northwest Territories throughout a number of departments is leased space. We’re working with the private sector in those areas. In fact, some would say that when you look at the mix of the portfolio between owned and leased facilities, we have overextended ourselves on the lease side.
The move that’s been planned by the Department of Public Works, working with a number of departments, is to deal with one office space that is leased by another company; it’s called the Perry Building. That fell into some safety concerns there, and we had to move staff out and put them in a number of other places — not the most efficient use of our staff, the way they’ve been put in place.
The department had gone out and issued an RFP initially, and there were no responses back. After that, there were a number of responses, of proposals, after the fact. But because there’s interest from a number of groups, it was felt that a tender needed to go out on that space.
With regard to that response, I may even flip the same question with regard to the Yellowknife market. Ninety per cent of the market is private sector in Yellowknife, yet the federal government built a facility here in Yellowknife. They at least had the guts to go out and have an independent review to see exactly what the market disruption would have been over the long term here in Yellowknife in order to satisfy the private sector.
I’d like to ask the Premier: is this government willing to do a similar thing in regard to the Inuvik market and have an independent review to see exactly what the market disruption is over the next ten or 20 years in regard to these facilities that the private sector has invested in?
There’s been a lot of work done in this area already. One, looking at the fact that we’ve had to move people out of an existing space, we’ve got to make up that shortfall. The department has notified all those who have leased space with the Government of the Northwest Territories in their community that we are not shortening our leases and we’re not removing people out of that leased space.
We’re going to accommodate that, out of a number of our own older buildings that we have, as well as those staff who were moved out of an existing space that fell into some safety concerns.
The confirmation letters have been sent. There will be no disruption in our existing portfolios when it comes to leased assets.
The government requires 25,000 square feet of space. They’re going to build a facility for 47,000 square feet of space. That’s double what the government’s needs are. That is going to double the requirements and needs in the Inuvik region. If you’re talking about office space needs versus the size of a facility that’s going to be built, it’s twice the size of what’s required by the government today. If you can’t tell me that the other half of that space is going to be filled by somebody else.… Those people have to come from somewhere.
As a government we realize that the Inuvik economy is not really that secure without a pipeline. These people made a lot of investments in that area to hopefully take advantage of the market in that area. But as a government competing against that market, it’s not really fair to the private sector. Why should they invest in this market if this is the way the Government of the Northwest Territories is going to treat them?
I’d like to ask the Premier again: why is this government not doing a market disruption review by an independent body?
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. I’d like to remind Members that the issue we’re talking about is before Committee of the Whole right now in the Capital Estimates. That’s the proper place to be debating this. However, I’ll allow the Premier to respond. Mr. Roland.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Through that process information was provided to Members on the leased space that’s out there in the community. Again, 93 per cent of the office space in Inuvik is leased with a number of companies in the North or in the community as well. As I stated earlier, the department has notified those companies that we are not moving people out of that space. We’re replacing existing space that was used and some of our older facilities that are owned by the Government of the Northwest Territories.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final short supplementary, Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just spoke to the gentleman responsible for reviewing, and right now they’re doing a review in regard to the requirements in Inuvik region. They’re telling me that there’s no need for that large an office building in Inuvik, which will definitely have an effect on the market. If the private sector is already in Inuvik doing this review, how can the Premier tell me they’ve been talking to the sector that they are concerned about in regard to what effect this is going to have on them?
Again, I’d like to ask the Premier: could you put a hold on this project until a thorough review is done to ensure that all avenues have been taken so there will be no market disruption in that particular area in regard to Inuvik properties?
This project has been delayed since the events that happened with the Perry Building facility. There are limited amounts of space in the community, whether it’s one office or two offices, but not enough to properly run the departments, as we have been through — for example, the situation with the Perry Building. As well, we have a number of older assets in the community that are being used right now, and we’re either going to have to invest in fixing up the older properties we own or go into a newer facility to replace the space we lost with the closure of two floors in the Perry Building.
Again, the department has notified those who are leasing space from the Government of the Northwest Territories right now that they will not lose that space.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.
Mr. Speaker, I want to continue with some questions today for the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment. Again it has to do with diamond policy, strategy and vision of the Government of the Northwest Territories as it relates to our diamond file.
I mentioned yesterday that the previous government blew up the diamond division at ITI midway through the life of the last government. I know we are doing work in the area of developing a review of the policy that’s in place for diamonds. I’m wondering: if the division isn’t there, who exactly is doing the work of the review of the policy and the strategy?
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Bob McLeod.
Since diamonds were discovered in the Northwest Territories ten years ago, the Government of the Northwest Territories has been working very hard to maximize the benefits of the diamond industry for NWT residents and businesses.
In particular, we’ve been successful in developing a secondary manufacturing industry here in the North. I’m very proud to say that it’s well recognized within the diamond industry that this has worked very well, and it’s being adopted by other countries that have diamonds. As far as reviewing our policies, it is has been ten years, so it is important work that has to be done. Right now we’re developing our framework internally, and we will be seeking input from the members of the standing committee. Once we have agreed on the framework, my expectation is that we would seek some outside expertise.
Mr. Speaker, I agree with the Minister that we have to maximize the return we get from having diamonds here in the Northwest Territories. I think the Minister stated that the work was being done internally and that it is a framework. Yesterday I said that time is of the essence. I think we need to be on this. I also heard the Minister yesterday state that we did have people attend the three town hall meetings in Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto as it relates to the feasibility of a diamond bourse. What was the purpose of the Government of Northwest Territories attending those meetings?
Mr. Speaker, I think it is important to recognize the difference between a province and a territory. Ontario as a province can collect royalties on diamonds that are being produced, so we have to find other ways to maximize benefits to the Northwest Territories. One of the ways we have done that is by requiring an allocation from the diamond mines and establishing a secondary diamond industry. So that is how we’re maximizing our benefits.
We had people attend the diamond bourse hearings that were held so that we could stay on top of it and monitor what was going on with regard to the diamond bourse. There has been no indication that this is something the Ontario government will continue with; we haven’t seen the report as yet. But we are staying on top of it.
Mr. Speaker, the Minister makes a good case. Ontario is a province. The Northwest Territories obviously is a territory, and I believe that it is vitally more important for us as a territory to maximize the opportunity. Ontario has a tremendous amount of other opportunities all over the province, and we are struggling here to find opportunities for our people. We have four operating diamond mines in our territory, yet as a government we just don’t seem to grasp that we can do more and we should be doing more in terms of diamonds. I want to get a better understanding from the Minister. Again, were we just there watching an opportunity pass us by?
Mr. Speaker, I guess the way I look at it is that the majority of the diamonds produced in Canada are produced in the Northwest Territories, and if we wanted to develop a diamond bourse and it was concluded that it would be something that would be worthwhile and would benefit the residents of the Northwest Territories, then we would look at doing something similar. But this was a Government of Ontario initiative. They had hired a consultant that went around and held hearings, so we went and listened and heard what people were saying.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.
Mr. Speaker, my point is: why is Ontario getting out in front of the Government of the Northwest Territories? Why aren’t we getting a consultant? Why aren’t we doing some meetings? Why aren’t we talking to the industry? Why aren’t we trying to set up a diamond bourse and exchange here in Yellowknife, which is the diamond capital of North America? It’s going to be located on Bay Street, not here in Yellowknife, where it should be, and that’s a shame. Again, we need to be in front of it.
Mr. Speaker, when diamonds were first discovered ten years ago and we developed our diamond policy, we concluded that we would maximize benefits to the Northwest Territories by having an allocation of diamonds provided for the Northwest Territories and developing a secondary manufacturing industry. We are now reviewing our policy. If it comes out that a diamond bourse would provide additional benefits to the Northwest Territories over and above what we already have, then certainly we will look at that as part of our review of our diamond policy.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Hay River South, Mrs. Groenewegen.
Mr. Speaker, my questions today are about the negotiated contract for the construction of the replacement of the two schools in Inuvik. There are land claims in place with respect to negotiated contracts in various regions in the Northwest Territories. In the Inuvik region those land claims extend to include the interests of the Gwich’in people. I would like to know if the Cabinet, when negotiating this contract, requested a legal opinion on any obligation they may have to the Gwich’in for a negotiated contract of this nature in Inuvik.
Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The Hon. Premier, Mr. Roland.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The process of the negotiated contract policy that the government holds is one that has been put in front of aboriginal organizations and governments for their review and consultation with us, and some amendments have taken place. That policy has been on the books for quite a number of years. When the issue of the negotiated contracts comes up, that is when the claims are very specific. If we are going to negotiate a contract, then we have to go to the aboriginal organization that is in the area. In this case, both organizations, the Inuvialuit and Gwich’in, provided letters of support for the negotiation process.
Mr. Speaker, obviously I don’t have access to those letters of support. I have seen a list of the people who did provide letters of support, but I haven’t seen those letters of support.
I would like to know if the Premier would be prepared to make those letters of support available to this House and to the Members. Also, did the letter of support from the Gwich’in include anything about receiving part of the work that would be associated with this negotiated contract? It’s my understanding that Dowland Contracting is 51 per cent owned by the Inuvialuit, and it is also my understanding that….. Well, I’ll just leave it at that. Was there anything in the letter of support that could be interpreted as a condition with respect to receiving benefits for the Gwich’in under this negotiated contract?
Mr. Speaker, the letters of support I believe would be in the package. If they aren’t, we will ensure that Members get that. In fact, as the department goes through the process of finalizing the contract process, I understand that they are targeting about 90 per cent to fall within northern contractors. So that is one of the reasons the negotiation process is available for projects in the Northwest Territories.
With respect to this negotiated contract, we have learned that a letter of award…. Well, first of all, when I asked the Minister of Education, he said the contract had been awarded. Then we found out that the contract had been awarded but it was just a letter of intent and that the actual contract had yet to be signed. I said: is it legally binding? They said: no; in fact we have secured a legal opinion to the contrary — that, in fact, the letter to Dowland Contracting is a legally binding document.
I would like to know on whose authority the deputy minister of Public Works was acting under in order to enter into that letter of intent to Dowland Contracting. Was it the Minister of Finance? Was it the Premier? Whose authority was he acting on?
Mr. Speaker, this process and many of the questions that are being asked were asked early on as this went through the infrastructure acquisition plan that’s before Members. This project here, as awarded…. There are a number of phases that were awarded. First was the site development, and that is a northern company that is doing that work.
The issue with the construction company, which has now had an offer put in front of them…. But it is conditional, as was laid out through there. I haven’t seen the Member’s legal opinion, and we’d have to have a look at that if they are prepared to share that with us.
The other side of it is the fact that we followed the existing process that is in place; no changes to that process have been done. Whether it’s a tendered process or a negotiated process, the normal process has been followed.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I know that these capital projects come in phases and that appropriations are voted in various years related to the work that will be done in that fiscal year. However, I am concerned that a letter equivalent to a letter of award was offered to a construction company, Dowland construction, without the appropriation having been voted on in this House. That is still before us today; that appropriation under the Department of ECE is still before us today. So I’m concerned about the timing and the process. Whose authority it was under that that letter was sent is important to me, also whether or not we got the process straight, whether that letter should have been held off until such time as the appropriation was voted on. That’s what I’m getting at.
Mr. Speaker, once again, the process has been followed. All the steps we normally do, whether it’s this negotiated contract, negotiated contracts in other communities or other schools.... The process has been followed in this area. The deputy minister has that ability to send awards out. It is conditional, as was stated in Committee of the Whole, I believe. An award is conditional on them meeting their conditions as well as this Assembly passing the infrastructure plan.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.
Mr. Speaker, I have questions for the Minister of Health and Social Services regarding food services at the new dementia centre that’s being constructed right now. There’s a concern out there that the food services won’t be adequately delivered or of adequate quality for the long term care people at the dementia centre. I’d like to ask the Minister: will the food services be privatized at the new dementia centre, and will that subsequently lead to the privatization of all the food services at Aven centre?
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.
Mr. Speaker, the Government of the Northwest Territories and Department of Health and Social Services is providing 100 per cent of the funding and 100 per cent of the O&M. We’re creating 28 beds at the territorial dementia centre at almost half a million dollars each for 28 units. We’re funding 100 per cent of O&M. It is an NGO organization; it is not a government organization. But we’re providing them with the capital funding and O&M to fund that. It’s up to YACCS as to how they use their money to provide the services that they do. At the same time, the YACCS board has instructed the staff to work with the staff of the Department of Health and Social Services to work out the details, and they’re working on that in a very cooperative manner.
