Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My statement today is very similar to that of my colleague Mr. Beaulieu.
Over the summer, since the last time we got together, I had an opportunity to travel to many communities in the Northwest Territories and I talked with a lot of different people, both on committee travel and other related business. One of the common concerns that became evident as I was travelling around talking to the different residents of the Northwest Territories is housing.
There were two issues that came up more than others and the first one was the number of vacant public housing units and the number of vacant houses that the Housing Corporation has available for sale. Last week the Minister made a statement where he talked specifically about some of these vacant units and the hard work that the department and the Housing Corporation were doing to try to liquidate and move these vacant houses out. I look forward to following up on that work and seeing what’s done in that area.
The other area of concern was arrears. A significant number of public housing tenants have gained and developed significant arrears, as my colleague mentioned, since the program moved from Housing Corp to Education and then back to the Housing Corp. These arrears are a big problem, because if you’re under arrears you don’t have an ability to access any of the other programs that the Housing Corp offers. So until we liquidate some of these arrears or the people pay back some of these arrears, they’re going to continue to have housing problems.
The big problem in this area is that because of the situation that my colleague described, is a number of individuals have what some people consider to be false arrears; they’re not actually in arrears. If they had been assessed in a timely manner and appropriately to begin with, they never would have developed these arrears. So what needs to happen is the Housing Corp needs to go and review these individuals’ files on an individual basis, those individuals who have arrears, to determine if, in fact, these individuals have arrears or whether they are these fake arrears that some people have exist out there.
Later today I will be asking the Minister responsible for the Housing Corp if they will go back and look at some of these arrears and determine which ones are real, which ones are not, and find a process to liquidate the ones that aren’t real if they, in fact, exist. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, it gives me great honour to recognize Maryann Ross, the vice-president of the Gwich’in Tribal Council. Welcome, Maryann.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, Mr. Robert McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would also like to recognize a constituent of Inuvik Twin Lakes, Maryann Ross. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. During my Member’s statement I was talking about some of these perceived arrears that public housing tenants have in the Northwest Territories. As I said, there are some people that believe that a number of these arrears aren’t, in fact, real. I would like to ask the Minister responsible some questions about those potential arrears. Has any analysis been done within the Housing Corp to determine whether or not this is, in fact, true? Are there some individuals who have possibly unreal arrears or have we done any assessment to determine that, in fact? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The honourable Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, Mr. Robert McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We have begun the work of looking at the arrears that were accumulated during the transfer over to ECE. We have noticed that the arrears did increase significantly during that time, so we are working on trying to find a way that we can get these arrears identified and have them dealt with. Thank you.
I was wondering if the Minister could give me a bit of a timeline as to when he thinks that work might be done and if those individuals are identified to have arrears that aren’t in fact real, what’s going to be done to help offset those arrears.
Mr. Speaker, this would probably be a fairly lengthy process because we’d almost have to go on a file-by-file basis. But with the tenants starting to come back to the LHOs to get their assessments done, there’s an opportunity for them to verify their income that they had during that time and adjustments will be made on the arrears. Thank you.
That’s good to know and I’m happy to hear that. I’m curious, will there be any sort of public awareness campaign or anything done to encourage the individuals who might be in arrears to come forward with this information in order to identify areas where they may, in fact, not owe large sums of money so that they can get back on a financial pathway, to a positive financial pathway? Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, as far as an official public awareness campaign, there are no plans for that right now. We are working with tenants as they start to go back to the LHOs for the assessment. They are being told some of the processes that they could go through. In forums like this particular one and in my travels throughout the Territories this summer and different assemblies I went to, I did the same message that we had to start working on the arrears and there was an opportunity for tenants who accumulated arrears during the transfer over to ECE to come back, get their income verified, and adjustments will be made. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Today I talked about the problems that exist even with the transfer of the Public Housing Program back to the local housing organizations. I have questions for the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation.
Mr. Speaker, was the Minister aware that when the transfer took place, that the policies that remained and were developed as a harmonization tool with ECE and the NWT Housing Corporation would also remain in place when it was transferred back to the local housing organizations? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The honourable Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, Mr. Robert McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When the transfer went over to ECE, my understanding was that clients were going to go to ECE, get their rents assessed, and then they’d go back and pay the LHO. But as we’ve been hearing throughout the transfer, there had been a lot of difficulties with some not being assessed in a timely manner and we see some of the results of it today with the arrears. My understanding of the whole thing was that they were just going to go and get their arrears and… They were going to get their arrears assessed and then they were going to go to the LHO and pay the rent. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, my question basically was when the transfer occurred back again, when the decision was reversed to go back to the corporation or the local housing organizations, the rules that were in place, policies, procedures that were put in place to harmonize the two programs, did the Minister know that part of the transfer was also going to be occurring? Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, I apologize if I misunderstood the Member’s first question. With the policies going back from ECE to Housing Corp, I am aware that we are using those at the moment. However, we are evaluating the whole process and we will be making some changes, ones that will be better for clients. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, will the Minister commit to allocating resources to the communities to clean up the mess that was created by the harmonization? Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, with the transfer back to the Housing Corp, of the assessment, it’s my belief that things… We’re just in the early stages right now, but things are starting to improve. We see the assessment rates, the collection rates have gone up to almost… Some of the assessment rates in the communities are 97 and 98 percent, so that is a huge improvement, and I think that as they continue to go to the LHOs to get the assessments done, then I think we’ll see a significant improvement. It will take some time, as I said in responding to Mr. Abernethy’s questions. We’d almost have to look at it on a client-by-client basis, but I think through the process of the LHOs we’re starting to accomplish that. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Your final supplementary, Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, previous to the transfer to ECE from the local housing organizations with the program, it was a fairly simple program, and with the low employment rates in the communities everyone knew who was working, so the individual was assessed a certain amount. He was assessed a certain amount, he came in, he paid his rent. It was not a requirement for him to continue to report each month that he remained unemployed or his rent would be moved to a maximum. That system seemed to be working fairly well. It was changed and then we asked it to be put back to the corporation, but the program that was in place that created the problem wasn’t thrown out. Is the Minister prepared to revise that program to go back to something that is close to what was in place previous to the harmonization project? Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, having to come into the LHO was a process that was in place even before the transfer over to ECE. Whether you are employed or not, it asked you to come in every month to verify your income. If you didn’t come in, obviously you are going to be assessed at economic rate, but if you came in later and verified your income, then they would make the necessary adjustments. So the program has always been there. It was just a matter of reporting when the transfer took place to ECE, because not all communities had an ECE office and, therefore, we find ourselves in a situation we are in today. But there is an opportunity, as I have said earlier, that we can go back and look at some of the files. We need the people to work with us on this one. They have to verify their income and adjustments will be made. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are for the Minister of Health and Social Services. They are really about trying to introduce some common sense into the process of decision-making recognizing the need for rules and procedures. I would like to ask, first of all, would the Minister confirm that post-secondary students attending school outside the Northwest Territories who have a need for treatment or facilities or experts not available in the Northwest Territories must return to the Northwest Territories before they are actually able to access that and, of course, greatly increase cost and reduce medical outcomes? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That is the rule. I agree with the Member that it is not commonsensical. It is under review. We are looking to change that. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, thanks for the Minister for that candid comment. That shows the Minister does have common sense herself and is willing to speak straightforwardly on that, which I appreciate.
Would the Minister also agree that there are many situations that, because of bureaucratic rules, end up costing the system more than would have been necessarily required and it actually doesn’t help in the medical outcomes that we are looking for? For example, it may end up in delays. For example, an appointment with a specialist that, because of bureaucratic rule, is delayed and that appointment can’t be booked for another six months. That obviously has some medical implications. Would the Minister agree that these sorts of things are costly both in terms of financial costs and medical outcomes? Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, perhaps I answered all the questions the first time, but I just want to... Sometimes that just invites other questions. Mr. Speaker, I just want to let the Member know that the scenario that he put together in his Member’s statement, it is the rule that requires medical travel to start from the NWT is a problem for students who are working and living and going to school somewhere else. That has been red flagged. As the Member knows, we are reviewing the Medical Travel Policy and that specific issue is something that will need to be changed. It will be changed and we are working on that. Thank you.
The Minister was referring to my first question. My second question, I was broadening it up to the whole business of common sense. I wasn’t talking about students in that case. I am sure the Minister, however, does agree that there are many cases of this lack of common sense, or perhaps a better way to say it would be lack of flexibility of the system. I am talking as much perhaps more of a system, if you will, Mr. Speaker, than the Minister.
Again, I do understand the rule, the need for rules and procedures, but I am looking for flexibility might be a better way of putting it. Will the Minister commit to developing the necessary flexibility into all of our health procedures to increase our effectiveness on prevention, early diagnosis and reduced costs that these sorts of examples portray, not just restricting it to students? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, if the Member is speaking about the Medical Travel Policy, we do have rules. If there are rules for change, I am obviously willing to look at that with the Member, but I think his question might be a little bit too broad about flexibility. We do try to have clear rules and apply them. If the Member has any suggestions for change, I am willing to listen to them. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Lee. Final supplementary, Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate again the Minister’s openness to approach here. Perhaps I will go through committee and see if we can bring that forward.
When can students, in this case, expect to see this common sense or flexibility brought to the process? Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, as the Member knows, we are reviewing the Medical Travel Program. It is quite an extensive review. I look forward to bringing the results of that review to the standing committee so that we could work to make the program better. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are addressed to the Premier today, Minister responsible for the Executive, I believe.
In having heard from the participants of the summit that the elimination of poverty has to be the highest priority for this government, and me having advised the Premier of that, and it was also in a press release that came out a week or so ago, I would like to first of all ask the Premier if he can tell us just how that will happen. What will he do to make the eradication of poverty a high priority for this government and what will he do to make sure that the work on eradicating poverty is done before the end of this Assembly? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The work of this Legislative Assembly on an annual basis covers a large area that affects the poverty of the Northwest Territories in the sense of trying to eradicate it by those programs we have but not going down that path instead to the work that has begun. I committed to Members in this House that we would begin to do our work in Executive. There has been an internal working group established with them. The Executive supports the work and an advisory group of external stakeholders to help. They are looking at the work that has come through. Some of that was recently held. That will also be fed into this system to see what areas we could look at strengthening. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, thanks to the Premier. One of the other recommendations, a major recommendation from the summit was that any work done on eliminating poverty has to involve everyone -- NGOs that are providing services, local governments, social justice organizations -- not just the territorial government. If we hear as already mentioned and we do know that there has been a working group established, but that working group is composed of GNWT staff. The advisory group is made up of stakeholders. That basically contravenes the recommendation from the summit. I would like to ask the Premier if he is willing to change the format of the working group to not only involve GNWT staff but also involve key stakeholders involved in dealing with residents who are enduring poverty. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, as the work that is just getting underway, again, the internal working group because it takes a number of departments who are in that delivery that will have to go to their departments if things are to change or if there is a requirement for enhanced resources. The external group is there to guide that work as it happens. That is a process we have established. If it clearly shows it is not working, then we would be prepared to look at what we can do as we go forward. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, I am somewhat dismayed by the Premier’s answer, because I think what the summit said was that we need to not just have the work done by GNWT people at the outset, that we need to involve everybody at the outset or else we are not going to get meaningful input or analysis of what we currently do.
As well, during the summit, in terms of the work that needed to be done, it was stated that we needed to start to work from the ground up, not look at what is existing but basically start with a clean slate, a zero-based review, so to speak. I would like to ask the Premier what kind of work is anticipated in terms of the working group, whether it is with or without the NGOs. I would hope it is with, but what kind of work is the government going to do? How do they intend to go about developing an Anti-Poverty Strategy? Will we start from what exists or will we use the blank slate approach? Thank you.
Thank you. The process we’ve engaged in is one where we have to first measure where we are and what we have in place. At that point decisions can be made as to the approach of coming up with a strategy that will work for the NWT. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. Your final supplementary, Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have to say to the Premier’s offer to measure, absolutely we must measure where we are. Much of that work was done during the Anti-Poverty Summit and that work cannot proceed if we don’t involve everybody who is currently involved in anti-poverty actions, whether it be territorial government programs or non-government groups that are working to help people out in the trenches, so to speak.
So I guess I would like to ask the Premier again if he will reconsider this working group and reconsider expanding it to include the key stakeholders at the outset, not in an advisory capacity but in a working capacity. Thank you.
