Debates of October 19, 2007 (day 2)

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I bet the Premier wishes he had assigned portfolios before this morning, but we are ready to go. We are ready to get into business here. I made a promise, Mr. Speaker, to a constituent during the campaign that at the first available opportunity I would stand up in this House and raise an issue with respect to housing and seniors' housing programs. Right now, if you are fortunate enough to live in social housing as a senior over 60, you pay no rent. It is not means tested. However, if I am a senior living in my own home and I need to access a repair program to make my house more affordable because I don’t have that, that program is means tested and to the point that if I need $15,000 or $20,000 for work done to my house as a senior, I have to agree to put a mortgage on my house in order to ensure the government’s investment in that house. The rationale is that I might get that $20,000 or $25,000 of work done to my house and I might sell it. But how do you reconcile that with the fact that the person that is getting free rent did sell their house and put the money in the bank? I would like to ask the Premier today, would he agree not to means test the free housing but, for heaven’s sakes, don’t means test the seniors' programs and penalize those who are struggling in independent homes they own themselves. It has to be fair. This is highly discriminatory. Would you agree to make it fair across the board, no means test, no mortgage on those seniors' houses who own their own home who want to access seniors' programs? Thank you.

---Applause

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. The honourable Premier, Mr. Roland.

Return To Question 5-16(1): Senior Housing Programs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the fact is, that is another good question that we are going to have to look at as a new Government of the Northwest Territories. The challenge is how do we come up with the right balance? The Member is right in saying that anybody in public housing, a senior has no rent to pay but a senior who is in an old folks’ home, for example, pays rent, pays a significant amount of rent as well as anybody who is in a level of care that requires other supports from the Government of the Northwest Territories. So somebody who is in a long-term care home, for example, they have to pay rent. Somebody who is in an old folks’ home has to pay rent. Those in public housing, the Member is correct, don’t pay rent. So we do need to look at a balance. I do not believe we can afford to go on open slate because we do have to set some thresholds. There are individuals who have managed very well over their lives in the Northwest Territories and who can afford to make some of the renovations where we can help. All the Housing Corporation programs for housing assistance, repair, new homes, they are all attached to a timeline of having the Housing Corporation have first rights in a sense of potential payback if somebody decides to sell. So that is going to be a part of the programming we have to review. Thresholds will have to be reviewed as we look at the cost of living in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 5-16(1): Senior Housing Programs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, why should the Housing Corporation have first rights to the proceeds of a sale of a senior’s home who accessed a repair program and yet they would have absolutely no issue with somebody selling their house, putting the money in the bank and getting free housing? I am not trying to take that away from the people who do get that. That was a program in place. People accessed it. Good for them. That is the parameters that we set out, but it is highly discriminatory. I will tell you another thing that is highly discriminatory with our housing is that the government comes into the community, they build units and duplexes.

Do you have a question, Mrs. Groenewegen?

How can you discriminate on the grounds of marital status? That is against the human rights code to do that. How can you tell a couple you can have a free seat here, and then leave somebody alone, a widow or a widower by themselves trying to support an independent housing unit?

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 5-16(1): Senior Housing Programs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, obviously the Minister that I assign the Housing portfolio to will be busy from day one trying to get a grasp of the issue again for the Northwest Territories.

---Laughter

Through the years, programs have been set up, adjusted, tinkered with, amended and changed. I think this is a prime example of where we, as a government, need to look at. The programs we have in place, how were they developed? Are they meeting the needs that they were intended to? Some programs were put in place from almost the inception of the Government of the Northwest Territories or when a program is transferred from the federal government. So we have a challenge before us, as Members, to re-evaluate the programs we deliver to the people of the Northwest Territories. Are they meeting the needs they were designed for? Are they still needed in this environment? I think, with the cooperation of Members of this House, that is something we need to do, is have a serious look at the programming that we have in place and how efficient and effective it is. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Roland. Supplementary, Mrs. Groenewegen.

Supplementary To Question 5-16(1): Senior Housing Programs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The programming for seniors is a very good program in the Northwest Territories; however, it needs to be fixed. I am not suggesting we take anything away from it. However, I am saying we create a level play field. At a high level, in terms of principle, will the Premier agree that we, as a government, should not discriminate against people on the basis of their income nor on the basis of their marital status? Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. Mr. Roland.

Further Return To Question 5-16(1): Senior Housing Programs

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, first and foremost, I must apologize to the seniors of the Northwest Territories. I use the term old folks and that is one I grew up with in the community of Inuvik, so I must apologize. Properly, it is seniors of the Northwest Territories. So with that, the question about the discrimination or the balance, I believe we do have to look at where we are. Ultimately, throughout the Northwest Territories and, in fact, it is quite a coincidental question because the alignment of income support and Housing Program was trying to make a level playing field for everybody who accessed the government programs. That is the thing we need to look at. Are we creating a level playing field? At some point, income is going to play a role in the decision-making or a cut-off for the Northwest Territories. We just can’t afford to have an open plate for anybody who came to the door in the Northwest Territories for any specific program, whether it be housing or so on. But we do have to recognize the importance that seniors play in the Northwest Territories. I think we have tried over the years. I think, if we compared ourselves to the rest of the jurisdictions across Canada, we have one of the better programs in the Northwest Territories. We need to make sure we maintain an appropriate level of care and a fair, level playing field. Thank you.