Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That would be on a five-year basis, yes. That would be a portion of the Mackenzie Valley Highway and other projects.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. That’s quite a considerable amount of dollars here in terms of what the Minister has quoted on a five-year plan. I ask because of some of the infrastructure that’s desperately needed in our communities. We are hoping to see them come onto the capital plan in putting some good investment in there. I just wanted to thank the Minister for those numbers and the significance of the type of investment we need in the NWT in terms of our infrastructure within the GNWT.
It looks like we are going back to the general discussion, but just as a point of clarity, I didn’t say the $2.5 billion was part of our plan, it’s part of our needs. That’s a little different from our plan. Thank you.
Indeed, thank you, Minister. Anything further, Mr. Yakeleya?
No, it’s okay.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. So once again, committee, we are on page 5-2, the departmental summary for Department of Public Works and Services, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure investment summary, $14.302 million. Committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Does committee agree that that concludes the Department of Public Works and Services?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. I also understand we also have the Department of Education, Culture and Employment before us. Mrs. Groenewegen, do you confirm that?
I just wanted to find out, Mr. Chairman, what time is it now.
Four.
Oh, we’ve got lots of time. Yes, let’s proceed with Education, Culture and Employment. Thank you.
Thank you, Mrs. Groenewegen. I’d like to thank the Minister of Public Works and Services. Thank you, Mr. McLeod, and thanks to your witnesses. Could I ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort the witnesses from the House.
I would like to ask the Minister of ECE if he would like to bring in witnesses today. Minister.
Yes, Mr. Chair, I would.
Thank you, Minister Lafferty. May I ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort the new witnesses into the Chamber.
If I could ask Mr. Lafferty to please introduce your witness.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. I have with me Mr. Dan Daniels, deputy minister of ECE. Mahsi.
Thank you, Minister. Welcome, Mr. Daniels. Committee, we have on page 8-2, the departmental summary and we’re going to defer that for Education, Culture and Employment until we’ve completed detail. So advanced education is pages 8-3 through 8-5 and we’ll look at the financial summary for this section, this division on page 8-4, Education, Culture and Employment. Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I did make some comments on the opening of the capital budget. I made some comments about education. I am particularly concerned that the Education, Culture and Employment capital plan doesn’t include any projects for the city of Yellowknife. We have a number of schools within the city that were on the plan last year. When we reviewed capital last year, there was some indication that a couple of schools would be on the plan for this year and they are no longer.
When you look at the capital plan, there are really only two major capital projects in the ECE plan this year. One is Diamond Jenness School in Hay River and the other is the two schools in Inuvik. Those are ongoing capital projects which have been going for a couple of years and they will go on for a couple more years.
But I asked some questions of the Finance Minister and the Minister for Public Works, when they were here during opening comments, about the 10-year education facility plan for Yellowknife. That plan has been in the works for awhile. It was finished, I believe, in May of this year and it was shared with some Members. So I asked the Minister, during opening comments, why the recommendations from that Yellowknife education facility plan were not reflected in the capital budget that we have before us. The answer that I got was that the YK school plan is something we think will be a very valuable document; however, the document was not completed at the time we put our capital budget together.
I would like to ask the Minister of Education why, if this facility plan was done in May and was shared with Members sometime in the spring -- I can’t quite remember when, I think it was in May or early June -- that would seem to be to me quite enough time to get at least one project or at least some indication where these projects will fit in a capital plan into this 2011-12 capital budget.
So having kind of a longwinded way around this, the question to the Minister is: Since we have a facility plan for the educational facilities in Yellowknife, and since we have an Aurora College lease which expires in 2012, why do we not have any indication of the recommendations of this facility plan in this current capital budget? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Minister.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. This particular plan has been completed in May that deals with the Yellowknife facilities. Part of the reason why it wasn’t, as the Member alluded to, part of this capital planning project that is before us today is that we wanted to consider all options that were before us to consider as we move forward. At that time it was still in the works concerning those options. But now we have those plans in place and this will definitely be part of next year’s capital planning process.
We talk about the facilities in Yellowknife and they have been highlighted. The college that the Member talked about is also part of the package that we are going to discuss for next year’s planning process as well.
We realize the expiry date on the lease is 2012 and time is of the essence right now. So that’s earmarked for next year’s capital plan. Mahsi, Mr. Chair.
I appreciate that it will be into the next year’s capital plan, but that’s fiscal year 2012-13 and if the Aurora College lease expires in 2012, that is going to be a pretty tight squeeze to get any kind of a facility ready for Aurora College in the year 2012 when that’s the capital budget year. But I will leave it at that in terms of the timing.
I am particularly concerned with two schools in Yellowknife: Mildred Hall School and J.H. Sissons School. Mildred Hall has recently had a renovation, but there was a portion of that renovation which did not get done due to a lack of funds, from what I understand. Sissons School is very due for a renovation and an addition. It’s a school that was built in the ‘70s and it’s an open classroom concept. It was on the books a year or so ago and now it is not.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. It sounds like you are onto the next division. We’re sticking with advanced education. Aurora College questions are completely appropriate here, but if we are talking about schools explicitly, that would be the next section. I’ll let you clarify what we are asking about here. Thank you. Ms. Bisaro.
My apologies, Mr. Chair. I got caught up in the moment. It’s a facility plan for all of Yellowknife, so I will keep my question until later. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. I understand the complexity of this, so let’s complete this section, committee. Any other questions, committee, on advanced education? Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The capital infrastructure for colleges, under the budget there’s minor capital upgrades to various college facilities. I noticed that in Yellowknife Campus or college, a lot of students from the Sahtu have come to go to school here and also they have used their facility to upgrade or attend some of the courses here. Some of them have vehicles, and parking space is very limited around the college campus. Also, winter is coming and they use their vehicles to go back home and they need proper plug-ins or insulation at this campus. I’m not sure what the process is or if the department can look at this situation. When it gets cold, these vehicles could freeze up and it’s going to cost more for these poor students, who just barely make it on the funding that they have, to look for additional costs to get their vehicles repaired if anything happens in terms of freeze-up. Has this been looked at by this department, minor capital infrastructure for colleges, for plug-ins for parking stalls at the Yellowknife Campus here?
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. This particular discussion that the Member is referring to is small capital projects. They could be part of the discussions we will continue to have with the college. The college usually identifies minor or major repairs to the facility. We realize that the parking area is of concern for students. So those are discussions we will have with the college. We will be meeting with the college board of governors within a month, I believe. This discussion we’ll be having with them as well. Mahsi, Mr. Chair.
I certainly hope the Minister keeps us informed as to the results of their discussions with the board of governors and the college and whether there is going to be any type of small infrastructure dollars go into having a proper parking facility with proper plug-ins for the vehicles. A lot of these vehicles don’t have plug-ins. I’m also speaking from last year’s experience and this year’s experience. This issue has yet to be addressed in a serious manner. I am very cautious as to the Minister’s caution on continued discussions. I’d like to see where there is an implementation plan to put in these proper facilities for our students who are in college and who want to obtain a higher degree to have a very good career for themselves. This is one of the things they need to be concerned about. Sometimes we need to allow our students to focus more on their studies so they can have a good career in life. So this is something I look forward to; the results of his meetings with the appropriate bodies to make this happen.
Yes, this will likely be an item for discussions, because we are planning for next year. I am meeting with the chairs -- that includes Aurora College -- at the end of next month. We are discussing various areas of programming and also capital infrastructure. There are three parking stalls slated for students at the Aurora College. It hasn’t been brought to my attention specifically, but the Member is alluding to that, so we can definitely discuss this area. Mahsi.
Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. We have Mr. Ramsay next.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to talk a little bit about a dedicated campus for Aurora College here in Yellowknife. I’m starting to sound like a broken record. Year in and year out Members talk about getting out of the facility we are in here in Yellowknife and getting into a dedicated educational setting, a stand-alone facility here in Yellowknife. That’s something that has to be a goal of the department and the college. That needs to happen sooner rather than later. The lease is coming up in the next couple of years at the current location and I think we should be exploring all options when it comes to getting a dedicated campus facility here in Yellowknife. So, again, I’d like to ask the Minister where exactly in the planning is the dedicated, stand-alone college facility here in Yellowknife. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Minister Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chair. This particular piece of work has been an ongoing discussion for a number of years now. It has been brought up in this House as well. As you know, the way things are going with our economy, this could be a $60 million or $70 million infrastructure. We need to start talking about that as part of our capital project for the next few years. We are also talking about potential partners out there that we are exploring options. We’ve been approached about lease-buyback and various options that various organizations have offered. Those are just some of the discussions we are having, Mr. Chair, as we move forward on the options of possibly having a stand-alone infrastructure for the college. At the same time, we’ve offered options to the school boards as well. Those are in the planning stages. We’ve given them an opportunity and now that will be part of next year’s planning process for the capital projects. Mahsi.
I thank the Minister for that. When you are looking at potential partners, it’s often been discussed locally and in this House and certain circles around the Territory about the lack of a university north of 60. I think if you are asking the right questions in pursuing the federal government, there may be some dollars there if a university is going to be built north of 60. I’d like to see it built in the Northwest Territories, built here in Yellowknife hopefully.
Obviously it’s going to be a big capital expense. I think 60 or 70 million dollars would be on the low side. If you look at the school in Inuvik, that’s $120 million. So I think it would be something in the magnitude of that type of expense.
We just don’t have those types of capital dollars right now. I guess I’d implore you to seek out the federal government. Start talking university. There’s no reason why we couldn’t have a university here in the Northwest Territories, a degree granting institution -- I think it’s long overdue -- and the research dollars that would go with that. There are options out there and I think we need to, again, look at everything.
The facility needs assessment that was conducted last year, how the college fits into that and whether or not you could have gotten something into this capital plan, I guess that’s a little bit debatable because we did have that and that was a year ago. So I’m a bit disappointed. I think nothing related to the college shows up in this capital plan. But I know it’s a big one and I know you guys are working on it, but again I think there was some time there to come up with a workable plan, a solution, and it’s just not here. That’s just the way it is. So, again, for next year I think we have to be working towards that. The utilization of existing facilities has to be addressed. We have to get down that road. If that involves a dedicated college campus for Aurora College, that’s something we need to know.
Again, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I hope to be around next time when it’s discussed again. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. A comment there, but, Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. This particular discussion that we have been having about the university of the North, I have met with the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs Minister Strahl, when he was still the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs Minister at that time, and discussed the possibility of having a university bricks and mortar, but at the same time they want to expand on our existing campuses as opposed to bricks and mortar.
There was a recent announcement from the Prime Minister, or a statement on reintroducing discussion on the university of the North, so we are trying to get more detailed information from that particular statement that was made.
At the same time, I did meet with the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs Minister’s representative on the university of the North and tried to get more information as to what was said, and we are working closely with Mr. Duncan’s office, John Duncan, the new Department of Indian and Northern Affairs Minister. It is not only us as the Northwest Territories but also Yukon and Nunavut. I am working closely with my colleagues, both Ministers, and the discussion we had the last time we met with Minister Strahl was building on our existing campuses, but now it sounds like the focus has changed and we will be pursuing even further with Mr. Duncan.
I put in a letter to Mr. Duncan and other federal Ministers to meet with them to discuss this further, and I am hoping that we can see some positive outcome out of that. Of course, we want to see that in the Northwest Territories, but that will be a battle I will have with my two colleagues. Mahsi.
I would like to see a university north of 60 as well, but, like the Minister said, there is going to be competition for the first university north of 60 with Nunavut and the Yukon. And even though we work closely with both of our friends to the east and to the west, this will be a competition, and the Department of Education, Culture and Employment and the Government of the Northwest Territories has to put their best foot forward if a decision is going to be made and some sizeable dollars to build a university north of 60. We need to, I’d say, get out in front of this and develop a sales pitch and plan to take to the federal government. I don’t think we should be just waiting for them to come to us, I think we should go to them and it should be a full court press on the federal government showing them the existing infrastructure that we have here in comparison to, let’s say, Whitehorse, and you could include Iqaluit in that.
There are campuses, I believe a dedicated campus in Iqaluit, but there is one in Whitehorse too for their college system. We would have to get in and get a look at what the competition has and make a case for the Northwest Territories being the location of that university. I wish the Minister well and if there is anything that the Regular Members can do to help in those efforts with the federal government, I would like to know that, because we would be more than happy to help. Thank you.
I totally agree with the Member. We have to tackle it from all angles in all venues where we possibly can. Like I said, I am working with representatives from the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs office. One area that we highly stress is scientific research funding through the federal government, so that is in the works and we have shared that information with our federal counterparts.
Just so the Members know, I am also the spokesperson for my colleagues, Nunavut and Yukon, when it comes to talking about the university of the North, so it has been a very productive discussion so far. The next step would be, of course, to meet with the new Minister. Another venue that Members can possibly promote more of this would be NWT Day that we have been talking about. So those are the discussions that we will continue to have with our federal counterparts.
Just in closing, I want to again wish the Minister well with the discussion with the federal government. I think we are a central location, we have geography in our favour, obviously, being in the middle. We have a need, we have a lease expiring on a very expensive piece of real estate that we are currently occupying and the need is there. I think it is up to us to show that we have the need, that we need to get out of a costly situation that we are currently in. We are going to be looking at building a dedicated college campus, so it would only make sense that if we are going to do that, then we should talk to the federal government about getting some capital dollars and making it a degree granting institution and university.
All I can say is this is an area of high interest for us as a department, especially with a lease that is coming up and due. We have had some discussions with the federal government and will definitely push with our existing current infrastructure right now, the pressing need. Like I say, we will continue with pressing the federal government. Mahsi.
Thank you Minister Lafferty. Committee, we are on page 8-4, advanced education. Next I have Mr. Yakeleya.
Mr. Chairman, I do agree with Mr. Ramsay’s comments in terms of the North needing a university. It seems that we have some pressing issues that we need to put together for the Minister. As Mr. Ramsay indicated, there are some things that we should really take this opportunity to press hard with the federal Minister to look at a university in the Northwest Territories for building our case. I hope that we have the opportunity to make a strong case to the federal government.
The Minister alluded to the NWT Day as something that we could do. I think that the North does need a university now, we are at prime time to have a university and I think with the funding that we do have with our leases, it certainly can go towards a university in the North here. I think the most logical location right now would be in the capital city here. We need to have that discussion with all Members here, as to this opportunity here.
I think, Mr. Minister, you need to let the Minister know that we need a university; bottom line, that is it. Let’s start putting our things together.
I want to ask the Minister, in terms of infrastructure dollars and the opportunities that he may see within his department or within other departments in terms of the Sahtu has been asking for a technology training institution and what type of infrastructure dollars that the Sahtu leadership can tap into if they were to build an institution. Would the department be interested in leasing it off them when looking at facilities? There are some goals and aspirations of the leadership to build a Sahtu institution of technology, so I want to ask the Minister has he an indication as to what type of opportunities are there for the leadership to put together a package to build a Sahtu institute of technology training centre in our region and if it is possible to have some discussions with our leadership on this very specific potential project. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. Definitely the option is there for the Sahtu leadership to pursue that. We will need some sort of a Sahtu needs assessment as we move forward to next year’s capital planning project. We did already hear bits and pieces of the training centre at the Aboriginal Student Achievement Initiative while we were in the Sahtu, so it is in our discussions. Definitely if the Sahtu leadership want to push this further, then by all means they have the options to do that as well. But we do need the needs assessment.
Certainly the Minister is correct; he did hear it from the aboriginal chief at the initiative symposium we had in the Sahtu on our leadership’s wishes. What in the capital infrastructure, capital planning dollars, study dollars, needs to keep the process to look at a planning study or needs assessment that would, you know, you have to do one step at a time to have a university in the North or a Sahtu institution of technology training centre in the Sahtu off and running. What would it take for this Minister to say yes, let’s put this into a five-year capital plan or even a 20-year capital plan?
We do have regional representatives in each region that can definitely work with the community leadership. If they want to pursue certain projects or capitals in the region, we are in support of that, having our representative there.
We need to start planning for next year. What are the essential needs in the regions and communities? As the Member alluded to, what is the process? The process will be to sit down with the leadership and if it needs the involvement of the school boards, then they are there as well. ECE is represented from the region and my department is willing to work with that as well.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Committee, we’re on page 8-4, Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, advanced education, total infrastructure investment summary, $1.387 million. Is committee agreed?
Agreed.
