Turn to our next division, education and culture, which ranges from page 8-6 through page 8-8 with the financial summary for this division. Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to ask the Minister, in the area of early childhood development, what the overall plan to address daycare needs is. I’m talking about capital here, physical structures, daycare space essentially. In the two communities that I represent, one community daycare and any of the early child care work that is so central to both communities is in an old trailer. They’re constantly putting money into it. I don’t think the department owns the trailer. I think it’s actually rented from the band. The other community of Lutselk’e has no daycare space at all. They’re in the community hall or I think they’ve tried a couple of other buildings. I just want to know if the department feels they have a responsibility to provide daycare space in the communities. That’s it.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. When it comes to capital for, let’s say, child care or a daycare, we do not provide capital infrastructure funding but we do provide O and M to cover the operational costs. We’ve had similar requests in other regions as well, but some other regions have been successful in obtaining some partnerships, whether it be the community First Nation or a corporation that forms a partnership with a certain organization. They’ve come to us to seek funding on the O and M costs. We’ve also geared them towards the federal area as well, because there are different piles of funding and they could possibly access some sort of capital dollars through that venue. With our GNWT, through the ECE department we don’t provide capital for child care or daycare, but we do provide O and M costs.
I feel that this is a good place for capital for daycares. I think that the students that are starting kindergarten that have gone through daycare and have been in some preschool programs that run usually out of daycares come into the school quite advanced and ready to take on kindergarten when the kindergarten age comes around and they go into the schools and so on. Because of the importance of this to education, if the daycares were to be somehow incorporated into the envelope of the schools in these communities, would the department consider looking at capital costs of providing daycares to the communities?
The current and existing daycares and child care facilities are run by not-for-profit organizations or private sectors. So we don’t own those buildings. That’s part of the reason why we haven’t gotten into capital projects for that specific area. We’ve made some changes to our programming. It does reflect on some of the mortgage payments. Just thinking or changing our policies to reflect on the cost of operating, we do have some or have made some changes at that level when it comes to O and M and try and be creative and innovative. There have been some changes on the mortgage payment for daycare facilities. That’s the area that we continue to improve on.
I’m just recognizing what the tangible assets are, I guess, capital assets or something that the GNWT has ownership of. If the GNWT does not have ownership of the daycare buildings, is the department in any sort of position to do infrastructure contributions to the communities to upgrade or build new daycares in the communities?
I don’t have the numbers right now, but we do have a vast variety of child cares and daycares in the Northwest Territories. When it comes to infrastructure, they will fall under that as well. There are quite a few. We’re talking millions, not a couple hundred thousand. I think we need to be very careful on approaching this particular area. We have discussed it in the past, but, like I said, with O and M we can be somewhat flexible in making those changes.
I understand where the Member is coming from and I need to work with that with possibly through the O and M, what else can we improve on so we can strengthen or provide more of the improved programming dollars or O and M dollars to the facilities that the Member is alluding to. I’ll leave it at that. O and M is definitely an area that we can look at for improvements.
Just shifting gears for a minute; high school career and technology studies. I was wondering if there’s a plan to put high school career and technology studies into all high schools.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. I’m assuming that’s restricted to the capital aspects of it as well. Mr. Beaulieu.
Sorry, Mr. Chairman. All schools that have high school students. That’s what I meant. Just to clarify.
The way the process works is that usually the school boards provide us applications on their needs. If CTS is required, or for upgrade, then there is funding available for that. I believe it’s upwards of $400,000. Those are numbers that we work with. It’s all based on the application from the school boards on their needs.
That’s good. I know the CTS is going to be opening a shop, I think, after so many years of having a shop in Fort Resolution. Deninu School closed and we’re having an opening in November. Also, I guess because I’m aware that my concern has been trying to find space and include some sort of a career technology studies for the high school students in Lutselk’e. With the information that the Minister has provided me, I will contact the schools and proceed that way.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Next we have the long-delayed question from Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ll try not to do such a long preamble since I kind of did it once already. I’m referencing a couple of schools in Yellowknife, particularly Mildred Hall School and J.H. Sissons School. Mildred Hall has fairly recently had a renovation but it wasn’t all completed. Sissons is long overdue. Well, I shouldn’t say overdue, but certainly due for a renovation, and I believe it was a priority on the department’s list for renovations as much as six or eight months ago. I’m dismayed to see that neither of these two schools have any... There are no plans in the capital budget for either of these schools and no plans in future years either. I’d like to know from the Minister where both of these projects are. How urgent is J.H. Sissons School renovation and addition, and where on the timeline is the finishing of Mildred Hall School?
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Chairman. For J.H. Sissons School there was a request that’s been brought forward on Public Works and Services to complete an updated 2002 technical status evaluation. This review was completed in September 2010. Although the building does require renovation, there are no immediate health or safety issues identified at this time. This could be part of next year’s capital plan as we move forward. That’s part of the reason why it wasn’t part of this, along with other pressing urgencies of other projects. I’ll get Mr. Daniels to address Mildred Hall and maybe if he wants to elaborate more on J.H. Sissons as well.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Mr. Daniels.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The overall Yellowknife facility needs are things that we’ve been examining here in the past year. With the changing enrolments that we’ve seen in the schools, we’re looking at a variety of options of how to move forward with addressing not only the needs for the Yellowknife schools, including Sissons and other schools in Yellowknife, but also the college. There are a couple of things, as the Member has indicated, where there were some renovations that were not included in the latest upgrade to Mildred Hall. Again, that’s something that we could look at in terms of bringing forward in our future capital planning process to further work on the options for the Yellowknife facilities plan. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, I will talk about Mildred Hall first. I appreciate and I am thankful to hear that Mildred Hall is going to be considered at some point in time. I look at the capital needs assessment that we received a little while ago and note that there is no money indicated for Mildred Hall until the fiscal year 2013-14, which is a fairly long time down the road. I would hope that the finishing of those renovations is going to be before that.
With regards to Sissons, the Minister mentioned a technical study was just recently completed and did an analysis of one of the things he mentioned was safety of the facility. I guess there is no urgent need to do renovations at that school, because I think the Yellowknife Public School Board has done an extremely good job of keeping up on the various schools and their system. They do an excellent job of maintenance and upkeep of the schools.
I need to reference the safety issue. All schools in the NWT now have a lockdown procedure in case of any kind of an emergency. Sissons, due to its open school concept, is unable to be put into a lockdown situation. Certainly Mr. Abernethy has expressed this before and I would agree with him, that then creates, in my mind, a safety issue for the students and the staff of J.H. Sissons School. If there ever was an incident within that school where a lockdown is required, they cannot be put into a safe situation. Where is the issue of an inability to do a lockdown in a school? Where does that sit on the list of safety issues and the list of priority issues for a building? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Mr. Daniels.
Mr. Chairman, the safety issues, of course, are of primary concern to everyone involved with school projects. We will be undertaking some discussions with YK1 with how we might be able to address some of these safety issues even though we don’t have the item in the proposed capital plan. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, I appreciate that it is going to be discussed with YK1, but I really don’t understand how solving the issue of a lockdown can be accomplished when you have no doors on classrooms. It really, to me, is not a safety issue that can be accommodated. If it is a bomb issue, you could move the kids out of the school, but if it is an issue of a gunman in the school, you can’t move them out. It is a safety issue.
I guess I just want to stress to the Minister and to the department that Sissons should be higher on the priority list than it seems to be. I would certainly hope to see it in next year’s capital plan. There is the beginning of planning study money for studies, et cetera, and that we do have this particular project on the books next year. That is all I have. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Committee, we are on page 8-7, education and culture. Mr. Jacobson.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just in regard to the capital plan for Mangilaluk School in Tuk, we have planning monies ahead for this coming year. I am just wondering -- I guess it was two years ago now in the House when we put Tuk on the five-year capital plan -- why is it not showing in the capital plan under renovation and why is it showing as a study? Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. Mr. Daniels.
Mr. Chairman, we have done some further work through a consultant who worked with the school and divisional education council to complete an education report on the school, how the space could be used and how we can make improvements. As a result of that work, we have identified funding through a planning study to undertake some potential renovations to the school to make the improvements that are needed. Thank you.
Just in regard to that comment that Mr. Daniels made, the capital plan for Mangilaluk School, Mr. Chairman, there is no shop, proper home economics room, storage office space. There are teachers crammed up probably 60 inches in a tiny little room that they are trying to do their papers and whatever they have to for their planning day for the students. Again, there is one washroom that they share out of 20 people. That is just not right. Ms. Bisaro said in regards to safety; I would say that is dirty. With that being said, on the capital plan, I know it is in there, allotted as a study. We have enough studies that have been going on. The small communities need this for our students. We are tired of waiting. Somebody, YK1 wants something. They are ready to say, okay, we will get the materials that are needed. Why aren’t they doing this for the communities as well?
Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. Minister Lafferty.
Mr. Chairman, the thing we are doing at $140,000 has been identified to do a study plan, because what we have identified here with the consultant was they did their report and the report identified related renovations to an existing building, a high school entrance, an addition to a stand free shop facility and provision for cold storage. We need to do more planning study within the school. I know the Member has raised this issue in the House. We want to have a solid case that we can bring forward as part of our capital plan projects for next year. That is our overall plan. That is part of the reason I want to do this study, so we have a complete package, Mr. Chair. Mahsi.
Mr. Chairman, if the Minister is telling me he wants a complete package, I will wait the extra year before it could get on the five-year capital plan. If we could get that proper shop, home economics room, bathroom, storage office space for all the staff and not just the two items that he said, we will wait for that. But something has to be put on paper before, you know as well as I do, anything gets done. I think that we are in a position now to make a difference in the communities. We have a chance with the Minister and the department to make a difference and providing a small, remote community with a proper school for the students from K to 12. I look forward to meeting with the Minister and his staff to make a go of this.
Moving on to my high school teacher in Sachs Harbour, is it possible... I know the Minister will always say it is Beaufort-Delta education that is going to do it. He always refers me to them. The Premier is going to give me the funding to provide that service out by Sachs Harbour. At the end of the day, I know the same thing was the school in Sachs should be looked at for renovation as well. It is a small little school. The high school should be brought up an extra classroom or two to provide K to 12 in the community of Sachs, because we are having so many issues in regard to schooling and sending our kids out into Inuvik for the school. I know we have to fill up the super school next year, so we don’t want to take the outlying communities’ kids to do that. But if we could put on paper again, if we could make a bunch of renovations for Sachs Harbour. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, if Sachs needs some sort of renovation, then items should be also discussed if we want to add that as a capital project for next year or the following year. We know that the Tuk school is up for the planning study. We wanted to identify funding because this has been addressed in the House. So it is in the works, Mr. Chair, and we want to make some changes as well; as the Member indicated, a proper school. We definitely want to have that and, of course, we want to have our community members attend school in the community. That’s the overall goal, so we will continue to strive for that excellence.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. We are on page 8-7, Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary. Mr. Yakeleya.
Mr. Chair, I want to ask the Minister, in terms of his method of ensuring that some of the small communities are receiving some of the facilities that they need, in terms of career, in terms of, they call them shops, I think -- industrial arts when I was in high school -- in terms of those types of facilities. Certainly, I know that the education boards have to put together some good proposals to acquire an extra teacher just to have a shop program skills trades into the schools. I want to ask the Minister, in terms of the Sahtu schools, in terms of the facilities that are like that in our schools to promote the skills of trades for our grade 10, 11 and 12 students. Thank you.
Minister Lafferty.
We’ve been to a number of small, isolated community schools and we’ve identified some needs in the schools. We’ve been to the Sahtu and Colville. We’ve toured a school as well, a small school. So there is a need for some upgrades that have been identified by the principal and the school boards.
This is the type of discussion that we continue to have at the chairs meeting that’s slated for the end of next month. Most of the discussion that the Member is alluding to is also being addressed at that level. The CTS is an area that we continue to improve into the schools, based on application from the school boards.
As I stated, we do have $400,000 that’s slated for the schools to either upgrade their facility of CTS or have the establishment of CTS into their schools. We will continue to improve in those areas. If we identify additional funding, if we can find additional funding to increase the $400,000, we will definitely work towards that. Mahsi.
Certainly, Mr. Chair, these funds are application-based in the school. I want to ask, in terms of the application, when there’s these small communities that have activities that are in their region or in and around their communities, that certainly where there’s much needed skill to be learned there. Is this how this works in terms of the funding application?
I know that at one time the schools in a southern area were building housing units for some of the elderly people and these grade 10, 11, 12 students earned credits on the courses they had to take. Right now, what I’m finding out is that our schools in our region in the Sahtu are scrambling and finding it hard to get initial dollars to hire a qualified instructor to come in and teach these skills. We may have the facility but they need the dollars to have somebody on deck to work with the kids there.
Again, it’s good to have these facilities. It’s nice to have them up and running, but you need the bodies in there to make it happen there. I want to ask the Minister, in terms of the application basis, in terms of the smaller, isolated, remote communities, what chances do they have in terms of making sure that they are not left out of this process here.
Mr. Chair, the quickest answer would be they have all the chances if the school board identifies them as a priority. Again, it’s the school board that makes the decision, because they are the expertise when it comes to the schools in their region. We can’t go into a community and say this is what you should have. Most of our discussion is from the school board level, from the community level. They provide us guidance and advice and we base it on that with our capital infrastructure and others, along with the Members providing us some suggestions. But it does come from the school board, because they provide that expertise as well.
I have just been informed that there’s a departmental committee that reviews these proposals as well. So we’re working closely with the communities, the superintendents, the board chairs to identify those needs and priorities of the communities. Mahsi.
The community does… I won’t get into it because it would take it to another debate; however, I thank the Minister for informing us and hopefully the communities that I represent have a fair chance of looking at some of this funding in its applications.
There are needs other than what we’re talking about within our schools and sometimes you have to decide which ones you want and it’s a priority and there are a lot of things that go on between. However, I look forward to having these facilities in our small communities where our kids can also take pride in going to school and staying in school to get a good career out of their education.
I want to ask in terms of the capital infrastructure of the community museums and the uptake for that type of funding. I know the Norman Wells Historical Society has been one of the successful stories within the GNWT and the community museum, and I know they want to look at some expansion because that little museum now is overgrown in terms of its capacity. Is this the type of dollars they can apply for in terms of capital infrastructure to expand their facility in Norman Wells? Mahsi.
Mr. Chair, yes, the museum area is based on an application basis. So the quickest answer would be yes. Mahsi.
Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. We’re on page 8-7, Education, Culture and Employment, activity summary, education and culture, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure summary, $27.132 million.
Agreed.
We will now go back to the departmental summary on page 8-2. Education, Culture and Employment, department summary, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure investment summary, $28.519 million.
Agreed.
Does committee agree that this concludes the Department of Education, Culture and Employment infrastructure?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. I would like to thank the Minister of ECE and Mr. Daniels and ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort the witness from the Chamber. What is the wish of the committee? If I can call on Mrs. Groenewegen.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move that we report progress.
---Carried
I will now rise and report progress.
