It’s nice to see, for a change, that the other side of the House is listening to our side of the House, but I don’t seem to remember seeing a fuel tax. I remember a sales tax in that list.
Mr. Speaker, I think I heard from the Finance Minister’s little special speech there, which he had seemingly prepared, that he recited carbon tax and resource tax. Why aren’t you putting your focus into those ones that we suggested as opposed to some of these red herrings, such as sales tax? You’re really wasting our time, your time and the public’s time. Why didn’t he do that?
First it was Dijon mustard; now it’s red herring. I don’t even particularly care for fish.
However, clearly, Mr. Speaker, we have left everything on the table. As we look at concluding the consultation process, we will look at all the options that are there. I laid out yesterday some very significant potential revenue generators in terms of the territorial nominee program for immigration that we believe could bring in as many as 150 new Northerners a year plus their families. I also suggested and laid out the option to look at fully using the SEAs, socio-economic agreements, which are bilateral agreements with the mines, where we could bring, as the Member for Kam Lake has raised in this House, hundreds of those current fly in/fly out workers who could actually take up residence in the North. We are going to look at the whole range of options.
Once again, I do appreciate the Member’s feedback. I would ask him to bear with us through the consultation process, but clearly their feedback is critical as well. Thank you.
Speaking on that line, has he heard anyone out there say that they wanted a sales tax? Because if we open that door — whether it’s 1 per cent, 8 per cent, whatever per cent — we’ll never shut it. Has he heard anyone glowingly say that this was a good idea? Where did this crazy idea of a sales tax come from?
What I have heard people across the land say is that there is a level of service the government provides that they have come to expect and count on, that we have huge needs out there that we need resources to meet. We are taking the steps on the revenue side, but we’re also looking to control our expenditures. Nobody necessarily likes taxes, but we have to weigh whatever taxes are going to be there against the value that they bring for the common good in terms of the programs and services for the people of the Northwest Territories.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You know what? A lot of people want to know how much this is going to cost when they find out what a waste of time has been conceded by Cabinet. I mean, you could have spent a lot of time…. Just an extra meeting with Regular Members to say that these are the good ideas you should maybe take to the public. We’re not saying that it has to be these ideas, but we’re saying these are the ones that I’m sure they’ll be willing to listen to.
So how much is this little fiasco going to cost the general public to just hear no, no, no? Thank you.
I don’t agree with the label of “fiasco.” The Member himself has asked in this House, if I can quote from page 1194 of Hansard, June 12, where he asked the Finance Minister of the day:
“What is he doing on revenue options? What is he doing to put new revenue options on the table for the Territories to go forward so we can make up for these ups and downs in our revenue stream?”
He further goes on to say:
“The issue really is: when are we going to deal with this issue? The fact is that there are no revenue generating initiatives in this. We’ve heard: We’re going to think about it. We plan to do it. We hope we’ll get $10 million in our revenue stream. But people are asking when. From my point of view, I need to know when we’re going to do this. Mr. Speaker, will the Finance Minister tell us today when we will see this discussion paper?”
Mr. Speaker, we have worked hard and long over the course of the summer to comply with the very specific request from the Member for Yellowknife Centre. I would hope that he would be a tad more appreciative of the work that has gone in, approach it in a constructive manner and offer us his best advice during this process.
Applause.
Oral questions. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m having trouble hearing you over all the raucous noise in the chamber.
In my statement I spoke about suggested ways to reduce expenditures and save money, and I asked a specific question in my statement. I’d like to address the same question to the Finance Minister. Has this government given serious consideration to the implementation of electronic distribution of annual reports for our departments, our boards and our agencies, and if not, why not? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The honourable Minister of Finance, Mr. Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. That suggestion has been made. We believe, as the Member does, that there is potential there. That matter is currently under review to see how we could do that to meet all our obligations and to put a cost on not doing it as opposed to doing it electronically to make sure that we have the proper records and such. That is a suggestion that we think is a good one.
I’m glad to see that occasionally the other side does listen to us, because I believe I made that suggestion some time ago. That came from a constituent, by the way, so I think that is evidence of what I was saying in my statement, that there are a lot of suggestions out there which we would be well advised to listen to.
I’d like to ask the Minister when we can expect to see a conclusion of the review that he says is ongoing.
As I indicated in the House yesterday, the process is going to carry on until the middle of October. We’ve asked people to provide feedback. We’re pulling together the work from the two day round table, at which point we will print up and release the document with the results and recommendations from the round table. At the same time, we’ll be considering all the feedback. As I indicated, then we will start building our suggestions and recommendations into the business planning process that we’ll be starting in mid-November.
I thought I heard the Minister talking about the round table recommendations, and I hope he means that the review of printing reports is part of that consideration of the stuff that came from the round table.
I’d like to ask the Minister, as well, if he can tell me whether or not we have any policies in place that guide the use of print advertising by our department.
Yes, there are.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thank you for that very brief answer, Mr. Minister. I wonder if you could tell me what those policies are.
Yes, I can, but the rules of the House preclude me giving them in any great detail. I will commit to the Member that we will forward to the Member the luminous policies that are there in regard to print advertising.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to follow up on my Member’s statement on the net metering issue. It involves, I believe, the Minister of ENR for renewable energy, the Minister of NTPC, Mr. Roland, and the Minister of PUB, Mr. McLeod. So I don’t have a druthers on who this is directed at, but I’d like to begin by finding out exactly what regulatory process is required to set up net metering for Yellowknife and the Northwest Territories.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The Hon. Premier, Mr. Roland.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The issue of net metering is one that has been looked at. In fact, a recommendation was made by the PUB through, I believe, the 2006–2008 General Rate Application. At that point there was direction given to look at what opportunities there were and come back with a proposal on that. It affects a number of areas. For example, when an individual or a company is generating power for themselves and they want to hook up to the system, there’s the interconnection guidelines that have to fall into place. They’ve been working on those.
The Power Corporation itself is open to having discussions with individuals who would like to hook up to the system. There are a number of factors that do fall into this, though. It is, for example, building into the rates if they’re going to buy power from a company or an individual. Standby rates the Power Corporation would have to take into consideration. As well, there are some hook up fees.
One of the other areas that they’re trying to deal with is the metering system. Right now it’s to have a meter be able to record the existing pattern going in one direction and then flowing back the other if the individual or company needs to draw down power from our existing grid.
Thanks for those comments. I think that if the Minister were to look into this, the process actually began a number of years before that. I wonder if I could find out exactly where we’re at right now and when we can expect the capability for this operationally to be in place.
We are working on coming forward with all the information, and I will get the additional information on exactly where, for example, the metering system is. I know from the Power Corporation side they’re open to having discussions. There are a number of factors, for example, to buying back the power, standby rates and some of the safety issues there. I will commit to the Member to get back the detail on just where we’re sitting today with that.
I appreciate that offer. That sounds wonderful. The experience in other jurisdictions — and I want to stress that this has been done for millions of households, so this is off the shelf technology. But where it has been done for the first time, typically the utility or some powers that be end up putting barriers in place through, for example, requiring unrealistically expensive meters and so on. I wonder if we can expedite this process by just getting all the players together at the table. I think this is a modus operandi of this government.
Would the Minister be able to facilitate getting people together on a very practical basis to come up with an efficient way of getting this done and then having it approved through the regulatory process but very much expediting this process?
I think there are a number of factors that are occurring as we have this discussion. In fact, I think Northland NWT is in the final phases of coming up with some of these arrangements that would see an agreement in place between a customer and their own company. That, I believe, has gone forward to the PUB for review. So these things are coming in place, and if there are areas with problems, I’ll gladly look at ways we can bring the appropriate parties together to try to make things happen.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mr. Bromley.
Great. Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thanks again to the Minister for those comments. Again, I just want to stress that the experience in other jurisdictions is that when they tried to do this sort of thing, they’ve had to go through a long process because of the unreasonable requirements that initially come out of the utilities. It’s just sort of a heads up and an opportunity for us to expedite the system in an efficient way by dealing with that.
Maybe I’ll just ask if the Minister would be willing to at least be aware of that and be keen should the opportunity come up to deal with that issue before the years go by again.
We are looking at a number of ways to try to reduce the cost of living in the Northwest Territories. The Member is right; this is not a new area. It is fairly new for the Northwest Territories or at least for the Power Corporation. Yes, we know that we need to step up to the plate in this area to look at what we can do. There has to be recognition from all parties, though, that there’s a fixed infrastructure in place for the Northwest Territories and our communities. Although we’re trying to transition away, for example, from diesel generation, there’s still that fixed cost, the backup that we have to take into the equation when we talk about setting up these agreements and standby rates and so on.
So those are things that come into the mix, and as I’ve informed the Member, we’ll be looking at ways we can try to step up to the plate here and make it happen. I’ll be glad to sit down with the Member and go through more detail as well.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. Oral questions. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Minister of MACA, who is also the Minister responsible for consumer protection in the Northwest Territories.
I’ve been receiving a number of calls and complaints from residents about fuel pricing here in Yellowknife. I’m having trouble helping them or explaining to them how pricing is arrived at here in Yellowknife. I can’t explain it. World oil prices go down; prices in southern Canada go down corresponding to those world oil prices — in some cases just recently 12 to 15 cents a litre. But here in Yellowknife it takes a week or ten days before an adjustment is made to the prices at the pump or the fuel truck. Then when oil prices rise, it’s almost an immediate hit at the pump and at the fuel truck for residents here in Yellowknife.
I’m wondering if the Minister can help me and help residents in this market in Yellowknife explain why that is.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Ms. Lee.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The consumer protection branch section of MACA is responsible for responding to complaints from consumers about business practices that are unscrupulous or unethical. So far we have not had a direct complaint about gas prices and the possibility being raised by the Member.
Having said that, Mr. Speaker, I am appreciative of the concerns out there. The rising gas prices are a concern. As far as I know, and having done research in this area in my other capacities, the gas price at the pump is fixed. About 85 per cent of that price is fixed by the crude oil price and some taxation by various levels of the government — federal, provincial and territorial. Incidentally, territorial taxes on the fuel have not gone up since 1992.
There is room there where the prices are determined by not just the cost of bringing the fuel up to destinations but by what’s called rack price, where they look at what other retailers are charging. So there is room where the operators seem to decide what the price is that they think they can sell it for.
Mr. Speaker, I thank the Minister for that. I’m familiar with the Yellowknife market. If you look at the retailers here in Yellowknife, everybody seems to have the same price, which would lead me to believe that there’s some type of price fixing going on.
Like I said, there is no corresponding decrease at the pump or at the fuel truck when world oil prices come down, like there is in southern Canada. I do believe that there should be an investigation. I do believe that the consumer protection division at MACA should work with the federal Competition Bureau and look at this, have an investigation. I think the residents here in Yellowknife and maybe in the other market communities.... I’m not familiar with those outside Yellowknife. Maybe we should have a look at that.
I’d like to ask the Minister how her department can work with the federal Competition Bureau to have an investigation on fuel pricing here.
The Consumer Protection Act that my department of MACA works under does not have a legislative mechanism to control price changes and frequency and how much. Also, the NWT is not one of the jurisdictions that regulates fuel prices. There are four in Canada who do that.
I’m also aware of situations where there are occasions where price fixing or coercion charges were looked into, and those have not been found to be the case. The only example we know of is an isolated case in Quebec.
Now, having said that, all are options we could consider — it’s not a MACA responsibility — as a government, and we could work with the federal government on how to address this very pressing issue. I’m willing to work with our Members of the Cabinet and the Members of this House to see what options are available for us to address these issues.
With winter coming I think it’s very important. I want to get a commitment today from the Minister that the government will engage the Competition Bureau of Canada to have a look at the price fixing that’s obviously going on here in Yellowknife and perhaps in other market communities in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.
Charges of price fixing or gouging or coercion are very serious. I don’t have any evidence to prove that right now, but I am willing to see what mechanisms we have in place to look into that and what options are available to the government and work with whatever agencies are out there to see if we could address that question.
In Yellowknife, though, we have a free market. I understand that the Direct Charge Co-op chose not to increase their prices. The other retailers did. Eventually everybody started buying gas at Co-op and the other parties lowered their prices — another situation of free market answering that question in an immediate way.
Thank you, Ms. Lee. Final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ve lived in Yellowknife for almost 29 years, and I don’t really recall there being any difference in prices at the pump for any extended period of time whatsoever in that 29 years, and I’ve been driving since I was 18.
Again, I want to ask the Minister: will the Government of the Northwest Territories engage the federal Competition Bureau to launch an investigation into fuel pricing in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.
I will undertake to look to see what they can do and what the process is, and I will provide that information to the Member. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. About my Member’s statement in regard to the notices that have been issued to communities on the cancellation of services, especially in the areas of health care and the clinics, which will not take appointments or be able see a doctor…. I would like to ask the Minister: exactly what is her department doing to deal with the nurse shortages in our small communities in light of the desperate situation we are having in Inuvik? Again, the health and well-being of those residents are critical. Ensuring that they have health care being provided will ensure that we have healthy communities and healthy people. I’d like to ask the Minister: exactly what are you doing to try to resolve this situation where we are shutting down health centres for emergency cases only?
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all, I want to advise the Member that notices that the Members get and the Member for Nunakput gets with respect to any reduction of services in health centres — I get a copy of them, and as soon as I get them, I inquire to find out what is causing those reductions in services. Sometimes those causes are very…. We had a water situation, in fact, or sometimes it’s a scheduling problem and other situations.
But I do agree with the Member. By and large, we continue to suffer from a lack of nurses and other health care professionals in the Territories as well as in Canada. We are looking on a daily basis to make sure that reductions of services are avoided as much as we can. Having said that, I consider this my number one priority is to address the service needs in smaller communities.
We understand that we have a fiscal environment that we have to work in. We understand that we have the pressures from national and international environments with respect to health care professionals, but I consider it’s the most important job I have as the Minister of Health to look at everything possible. I believe that the only change we can really make is to look at the territorial staffing model of doctors, nurses and other health care professionals. I am working on a proposal to come to our Standing Committee on Social Programs to work with our Members and perhaps a joint committee on rural and small communities to see how we can improve the access to services and levels of services in small communities in all social envelope areas for which I am responsible.
Mr. Speaker, this issue has been around for some time. I know that the Inuvik Health Board had looked at some alternatives. One of them was looking at the possibility of recruiting professionals from Asia, the Philippines, and bringing them to the Inuvik region. They would work in those communities if those positions were available to them, but because of the collective bargaining agreement and under the Health Act, there were some challenges there. I think that was one of the solutions that was looked at to resolve that issue.
Has the department considered revisiting that situation, especially for the Beaufort-Delta region? Because this seems to be a systemic problem specifically to the Beaufort-Delta region.
That will be one of the things that will be looked at, understanding, though, that Nunavut tried that method and that it didn’t quite work out as well as they had hoped. Obviously, that is one of the considerations, but we want to make sure that we do it right.
The second thing is the nomination program that Minister Miltenberger has talked about, bringing more people from southern jurisdictions. That has an implication for making it easier for the professionally trained people to come from other areas. We have to work on the licensing issues. We have to work on making it easier for them to come.
Another thing we need to work on is to provide incentives for people to practise in rural communities, and that is not easy to do because of the collective bargaining situation and the financial restraint that we have. But I’m committed to looking at everything we can to see how we make this happen. It will not be easy, but I am working on a proposal.
