Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Question has been called. I call upon Mr. Menicoche to conclude debate on the motion.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I would like to state that I am encouraged by my fellow committee members for moving this motion forward, and I appreciate their support. As well, I would like to request a recorded vote.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The Member has requested a recorded vote. All those in favour, please stand.
Mr. Menicoche, Mr. Ramsay, Mrs. Groenewegen, Mr. Beaulieu, Mr. Hawkins, Ms. Bisaro, Mr. Krutko, Mr. Bromley.
All those opposed, please stand.
Mr. Jacobson, Mr. Yakeleya.
All those abstaining, please stand.
Mr. Lafferty, Ms. Lee, Mr. Miltenberger, Mr. Roland, Mr. Michael McLeod, Mr. Robert McLeod, Mr. Bob McLeod.
Okay. The results of the recorded vote on the motion are eight in favour, two opposed, and seven abstentions. The motion is carried.
Committee motion carried.
All right; next on my list is Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to ask several questions about the department here. The first has to do with the safety of the winter roads in terms of the region I represent, Sahtu region.
The winter roads have seen an increase in traffic and activity. We also have seen a number of projects happen that would improve and enhance the quality of our roads. I would like to see if there are going to be continued road safety signs; realigning the roads from the curbs, from the hills; and what this department proposes to do with the amount of traffic. We saw last year in Sahtu heavy equipment passing with rigs on them, chains on the tires. Traffic is coming all hours of the night. People in my region take advantage of the winter roads, as they open sometimes in January, sometimes a little later. They close in March, and that window of opportunity closes for them.
There are lots of concerns coming from my region about the big rigs coming in. Sometimes they get quite scared when they travel. Usually the best time for travelling on the Mackenzie Valley winter road is at nighttime, because you can see the lights; that’s the only way they know that other vehicles being used by oil companies are on the road.
I’d ask the department: in terms of enhancing the quality or safety of our roads what is the department proposing to do on these winter roads up in the Sahtu region?
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Neudorf.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. We have quite a number of various projects or programs underway to look at safety on the Mackenzie Valley winter road. The Member mentioned a few initiatives that are underway.
On the capital side of things we’ve invested quite heavily in the winter road for the last half a dozen years or so. We look at what’s in front of the committee here now; that will continue. A number of different bridges are going to, we hope, be constructed shortly, including the Blackwater River bridge and a couple of others.
We also have ongoing money for grade improvements to the winter roads. We’ve done an assessment of the winter road and identified those areas where a correction of the horizontal or vertical alignment might be required. As the Member mentioned, one of the major ones there was the bypass of the community of Tulita, where we moved the winter road out of the community of Tulita to address some of those safety issues. We also did the same thing with Norman Wells a couple of years ago.
We hope, as well, to keep improving the communication and partner with industry and make sure they’re aware of all their requirements. We do have an ongoing dialogue with industry and the users of the winter road. We’ve structured our contracts on the winter road so that when they have some extraordinary use of the road, they would contribute to the department to account for any additional work that’s required to construct the road or to operate and maintain the road.
We do think that with those initiatives, as well as with continuing to improve the signage, the road is becoming safer all the time.
We certainly look forward to the department’s initiatives with the community; safety initiatives they could also implement from the community in terms of what safety initiatives could be undertaken. The community has some fairly good ideas about what should be done and what can be done. Some of the signs on the Mackenzie Valley road up in my region are on trees. Sometimes those signs fall down for whatever reason. We want to look at some of those signs in terms of safety measures.
The deputy minister alluded to the bridge program, and we certainly appreciate the bridge program coming to our region. There’s one bridge that’s between Fort Good Hope and Norman Wells called the Oscar Creek Bridge. It’s just sitting there as a monument, and people are wondering when the department will put in the approaches to it. It’s been there for a couple of years now. It’s very dangerous and hazardous.
When will the department, in terms of its priorities on bridges, fix this bridge? They’re going to start on other bridges, but this bridge has been in the spot, sitting there; it’s an eyesore. Actually, it’s starting to become a joke to my people of the Sahtu region, because it’s not doing anything. If this bridge was down somewhere in the south part of the territory, it would be done just like that. The priority is the Oscar Creek Bridge.
There are other bridges, I know, from Big Smith, Little Smith — bridges that need to be up and running. I’d ask the deputy or the Minister: when will we see the Oscar Creek Bridge completed, rather than just have a monument there?
Thanks for the comments. Of course, there are many priorities, many areas where we could improve the Mackenzie Valley winter road. We have, as I mentioned before, made quite a few improvements to it already. One of the projects that is underway is the Oscar Creek Bridge, as the Member mentioned. We do hope to get to that very shortly.
We’ve been hearing “very shortly” for a bit here. I’m not too sure what the definition of the deputy’s “very shortly” is in terms of the time frame. Can we look at something in terms of having the commitment that this bridge will be done and finished? It’s sitting high and dry with no approaches. My people want to know when this bridge will be completed. It’s sitting there. It’s an embarrassment for the government. When will this bridge be done? You have the dollars. I’d like to ask the deputy to expand a little more on this “very shortly” answer.
As I mentioned previously, there are many different priorities for work on the Mackenzie Valley winter road. We are proceeding with the Blackwater River bridge, which is taking up the majority of our staff’s time at the present moment. On Oscar Creek it’s a matter of doing the engineering work for that to identify all those requirements. It’s on the work plan, and we hope to have that engineering underway this fiscal year yet.
There are lots of bridges, and people are very happy that the Blackwater bridge is being looked at. But I’m saying this bridge has been sitting there for about two years. It’s been sitting there. How long does it take an engineer to say, “We want to build approaches on both ends to complete it”? I don’t want to get into too much detail on the Oscar Creek Bridge in terms of the work that needs to get done there, but by God, you have to have that work done in the next couple of months. It’s been sitting there for two years.
Blackwater is not even on the banks of the Blackwater River, yet now let’s focus on Blackwater bridge, let alone Bosworth or Bear River bridges. There are investments going into the Sahtu. There are millions of dollars going into the Sahtu oil and gas, and our return on investment is not too bad. But they could stay longer if they had those bridges there. They have the Blackwater bridge in there. Bosworth, I understand, is a temporary bridge. Oscar is just sitting there. They also got the Big Smith.
We have major investments going into the Sahtu region for oil and gas, mining exploration. We’d better have a good return on them for our people, because our roads are only open from January to the end of March. That’s it. Our cost of living is high. People who want to go out and take advantage of the winter roads to have a vacation, drive their vehicles down, are very limited compared to other regions that have all weather roads. Our people are starting to demand that these priorities take place in our region. Right now we don’t have that opportunity. We use the highway as the Mackenzie River.
When I go back home, they say, “Well, the other MLAs and other regions have roads. They have opportunities.” People in Délînê have to cross the Bear River Lake. They have to wait, and now that climate change is taking effect, they have to wait longer. They have companies in Délînê that want to do work. We can’t open the Bear River Lake ice crossing; it’s too warm. They’re losing millions, thousands of dollars.
That’s why I’m asking this department to put some emphasis on the region that doesn’t have all weather access roads. Put in a little higher priority. Our food might go down. That’s what I want to ask. I think I’m making more of a statement, Mr. Chairman, and I’m asking the department to have some leniency, some goodness in their hearts to look at people who live in the Sahtu who have these types of challenges before them.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Mr. Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. After that impassioned plea I’ll ask Minister Michael McLeod if he would care to respond to that specific request.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Mr. Michael McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to say that there has been some significant focus in the area of the Sahtu, the Member’s riding, for some time now and for all the reasons that he’s listed, including the short time frame where the communities can access the south for shopping or visiting or things of a personal nature. There’s also the consideration among the communities in the Sahtu to be able to have the communities connected during the winter months so they can travel back and forth.
We have been focusing some considerable investment through the strategic infrastructure initiatives. We’ve managed to target many bridges, along with grade work, in the Sahtu. We would like to have all 42 bridges that we have identified over the years as immediate done over the next while. We indicated, as the deputy has indicated, in the very near future, because in some of the cases we don’t have all the resources identified.
We have targeted over the next while two bridges we’d like to get done, and that’s Jackfish Creek and Bosworth Creek. Oscar Creek is also something that is part of what’s being considered. If the Member feels we should focus on Oscar Creek as a priority, we’d certainly consider that. There is still some work to be done, as the deputy has indicated, but we’d gladly sit down with the Member to have that discussion on where the priorities for investment in the Sahtu are. We don’t have the resources to do all the projects. There are some dollars that may be available down the road through the Building Canada Fund, but we’ve indicated to the Members that we’d like to have that discussion before we make any commitments.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Next on my list is Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, looking at this capital plan, I’d like to thank the Department of Transportation for putting some money into Highway No. 6. I had an opportunity to discuss this budget, or the plan to put this money in, with the community of Fort Resolution. Highway No. 6 is the highway that goes from Hay River into Fort Resolution. It’s not right from Hay River but from what’s referred to as the Big Buffalo River camp into Fort Resolution, 90 kilometres of highway. For the most part, about 70 kilometres of this highway is in fairly decent shape. It’s not in good shape, but it’s in decent shape. The majority of this work I’d like to have the department look at, just concentrating on 17 kilometres of highway that goes from the camp at Little Buffalo River into Fort Resolution.
My understanding from talking to some of the people who live in the community is that that highway was originally put in as a temporary road. I was told it was just a road that was put in to originally make the road passable for regular traffic, but it was always the intention to actually get the road up to specs. So this is our first opportunity since then to get that portion of the road up to specs.
I think I did make a Member’s statement asking the Minister to take a look at getting the project started as quickly as possible. The budget goes back to this current fiscal year, so there should be nothing impeding the department from starting the project as soon as possible. I’m hoping I can get an opportunity. I do believe the department has then given some direction to travelling to the community with me to take a look at this road. I’m hoping that it gets down to a point where we’re focusing on the worst areas of the highway.
In addition to that, I have a question for the Minister. The various highway chipseal overlay program has probably, aside from the bridge work, one of the larger budgets in the Department of Transportation plan over the length of the term of this government. I was wondering if the department or the Minister — whichever, the infrastructure Minister or the Minister of DOT — could advise me if the various highway chipseal overlay program is scheduled to go into Highway No. 6 at this time. That’s my question for now. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Neudorf.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Member is correct. We have a four year, $1 million per year project to reconstruct and put additional chipseal on Highway No. 6. That project started this year. We’ve been doing some engineering work and have been trying to arrange a meeting with the community. We hope to arrange that shortly, in the next month or so, to get the communities’ input on their priorities.
In our own investigations that we done so far, we think that the priority is, as the Member suggested, the last 25 or 30 kilometres that go into the community. I think we’re aligned there. After the community meeting there will be some work out to tender. It’s not on the road work this year, but it would be producing granular materials so that we can get ready for some of the funding that’s coming next year and begin some of the reconstruction and drainage work that’s required prior to putting the chipseal on.
The second question is in terms of the chipseal overlay. There is a budgeted amount there. It is to rehabilitate the existing chipsealed surfaces on our highway system. It’s the amount of money that we need to ensure that they are — at the end of their life cycle — being rehabilitated and replaced as required. We do have an estimate of where we think the priorities for work are, but it’s always finalized in the spring of the year. After the winter and getting through the drainage time when the subgrade is at its weakest, we go and inspect all of our chipsealed surfaces and decide what the priorities are for replacement and then go and get the work done. The Member’s portion of Highway No. 6 that’s chipsealed would be evaluated along with all the other sections at that time. I believe it was about two years ago that we had gone and actually put a new surface on a section there, so I’m not sure that it would be up for renewal right away.
I thank the deputy minister for the answer. Just for more information on the chipseal overlay on Highway No. 6, there are only about 15 kilometres that are chipsealed. The department did add an additional five or six kilometres of chipseal beyond what used to be the community of Pine Point. If those are areas that would be considered under this program, then it does leave the rest of the highway for the budget that’s scheduled for Highway No. 6. I’m happy with that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. There is no question, so we’ll move to the next person on the list. Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’d like to ask the Minister of Transportation if he can give me an update in regard to the Building Canada Fund and how community projects can be added to that fund. I know of previous commitments from previous Ministers to looking at the Aklavik access road to the gravel source. I know there was a meeting last week. I’m wondering about the possibility of getting an update on what the status of that is. What type of a timeframe are we looking at to basically develop a proposal, submit it and see if we can access the funds from the Building Canada Fund to do that project, similar to the project in Tuk?
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would refer that question to Minister Michael McLeod.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Minister Michael McLeod.
Mr. Chair, as the Members are aware, we had a very busy year this year working on the Building Canada Fund, first of all to sit down and negotiate with our federal counterparts the framework agreement that spells out the different areas that would be considered for investment and the different issues that we’d have to negotiate. Following that, we did come to a successful conclusion on the dollar amount and the criteria areas that would be considered for investment. We also put together the listing of projects that would be brought forward for consideration and negotiation with the federal government and the management committee. For ’08–09 we did have that concluded.
We have now submitted the second year’s listing of investments, and we are waiting for a response from the federal government. We’ll have some discussion on that with the management committee. We are now in the process of firming up future projects and areas that this government would like to consider for investment in the areas of transportation infrastructure and also municipal infrastructure. We did provide one briefing to the Members to give us a status report and an update of where we are. We are now evaluating projects within the Department of Transportation, and the municipal governments are also doing the same. We are compiling a list.
As things move forward, we are also expecting that we will be looking at a response from the committees to hear what their recommendations are. We also expect to have that firmed up sometime over the next while and to be able to move forward with that.
I’d like to thank the Minister for that. We also realize that in order for projects to get on the agenda for the Building Canada Fund, they have to be at a certain stage of assessment and validation in looking at the capital costs of those projects. So that’s the challenge a lot of our smaller communities have with our projects. We don’t have the ability to access the Department of Transportation or Public Works or infrastructure departments to assist us in compiling that information so that we can make the list, so I think that’s the challenge we’re facing. Also, out of the Building Canada Fund there was some $500,000 listed for research and development. I’d like to ask the Minister: do you have any idea of how that $500,000 is going to be expended by way of research and development? What projects are being expended for that $500,000 that had been mentioned?
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Mr. Miltenberger.
I once again refer that question to Minister Michael McLeod.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Minister Michael McLeod.
Mr. Chair, the dollar amount on the money that has been earmarked for research and development is actually $1.8 million over the life of the Building Canada Fund. We have a number of areas that we are interested in. We have criteria that we have to meet, and some of the criteria require us to look at climate change issues and environmental issues. It also gives us the ability to do the research. We have looked at and are considering some dollars to be awarded to the Aklavik Steering Committee that is doing some work pending that we move forward to some satisfactory conclusion and start to nail down what has to be done. We’ve just had some recent discussion in that area with that committee on the 17th of this month, and I am assuming there’ll be others. But as to an actual overall budget of where those dollars will be allocated and spent, we haven’t finalized that.
Mr. Chair, it would be good if the Minister could keep the Members on this side of the House and the committees informed in regard to how those expenditures are being made and who’s getting on the list and who isn’t. I think it’s important. Climate change affects people differently, especially where we have communities dealing with permafrost, shoreline erosion and the importance of gravel in those areas where we don’t have gravel.
I’d like to ask: has the department looked at what other initiatives are being contemplated? You talked about climate change, and you talked about different types of infrastructure and water treatment plants. Again, I think it’s important that we also ensure that we do have the flexibility and allowance for small community projects to be able to meet this list, knowing that a lot of them don’t have the capacity or don’t have the people on the ground to deal with this. There is going to be a need for dollars to be fronted to those organizations so that they can get the expertise that they’re going to need to compile a report or an assessment or a study.
I’d like to ask the Minister: what kinds of assurances can small communities get so that there will be resources for them to do the legwork that’s going to be needed for these programs or projects?
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’d refer that question to Minister Michael McLeod.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Minister Michael McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think all the Members recognize that the dollars allocated in this program are a far cry from what is actually needed to be able to accommodate all the different projects that are territorial in nature that are happening in the larger centres and in the small communities. We will consider all projects as best as we can. We’d like to be able to follow some of the earlier strategic initiatives that were put forward in terms of submissions to the federal government. We’d like to hear what the Regular Members have to offer in terms of recommendations. We’re open to communities coming forward.
It’s a real challenge, of course, to be able to deal with each issue as it comes forward. Communities and projects need investment to do the legwork, to do the research, to do the early investments to describe and figure out what the scope of work is. But we want to be able to leave it as broad based as possible and try to capture many of the initiatives that are being brought forward, then try to narrow it down in terms of importance and realistic investment as we can. We’re not going to be able to do all of them, but we sure can try to see which ones would make the most sense.
It’s the last, which projects make the most sense, that I have concerns about, because a lot of times the smaller communities don’t seem to be put on the same pedestal as large capital projects for specific departments. Departments seem to win out over small communities, and that’s the challenge that we’re facing here in regard to how capital is being allocated.
I’d like to ask the Minister of Finance if there’s any way of monitoring some of these projects to ensure that they are fairly distributed by way of geography, making sure that small and large communities have a fair balance on that, and also that we have projects north and south, that it’s not all in one specific area or specific region. I think it’s important to realize that with the limited resources we have, we have to ensure that we find that balance and that it’s fair to everyone. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. No questions. We’re on page 8-10, Transportation, Activity Summary, Highways, Infrastructure Investment Summary, Total Infrastructure Investment Summary: $57.833 million. Mr. Yakeleya.
Mr. Chair, the question I have is on the follow-up to Mr. Krutko’s question to the Minister in terms of the Building Canada Fund. I have a little file here that I have on the Great Bear River Bridge project being delayed, deferred, cancelled, postponed until further funding.
I’d just like to ask the Minister: when can the people in the Sahtu look at a bridge like this? They don’t know what to think, since this bridge has been on the books for a long time. They’re anxious to hear what the government is planning to do in terms of putting this bridge in place. If it does get in place, for us it will be water under the bridge, I guess.
I’d like to ask the appropriate Minister: can you tell the people and me what’s the plan for this Great Bear River Bridge? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. Minister Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ll refer that question to Minister Michael McLeod.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Minister Michael McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As I indicated earlier in my response to investment in the Sahtu, we’ve been trying to really offset some of the pressures that are being brought into that area by resource development, by the oil and gas industry, and trying to make the winter road more accommodating to the local traffic. We have targeted 42 bridges that are needed in the Sahtu region. We think we are in a position to do at least 41 of them.
We did have the Great Bear River Bridge as part of the projects that were listed under the strategic investment dollars. The budget line for that project was at $25 million, and it has since practically tripled in value. It’s not something we feel we can accommodate as part of our Building Canada projects, so we are right now looking to see if there are any other ways we can fit it into our budgeting process, including maybe work — if there’s some desire to move forward — on the Mackenzie Valley road or maybe other partnership arrangements. We do not have a plan at this point for the Great Bear River Bridge, but we have not lost sight of it.
