Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to recognize Brian Kardash, a schoolteacher from Fort Resolution from last year and Patricia’s husband, as you indicated. I never met his father, but I understand that’s Dan Kardash.
Third time lucky. I would also like to recognize Mr. Brian Kardash, a resident of Weledeh, and of course his father. I would also like to recognize Sue Bevington and her companion, also residents of Weledeh.
Mr. Speaker, it’s not very often I get a chance to recognize a constituent down from Inuvik: Conrad Baetz, who works out of the North Mackenzie District for Indian and Northern Affairs and, I believe, his mother, Greta, beside him.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to follow up on my questions to the Minister of Environment and Natural Resources with regard to, I think they call it, the Rocky Island barge spill. It was just south of Fort Wrigley. It happened in August. One of the barges ran aground.
The biggest concern, Mr. Speaker, is that there was slow response by authorities to access this spill. The other concern is that because of the slow response, the amount of spillage was not adequately reported. I’d just like to ask the Minister: what is his latest assessment of this grounding of a barge on the island just below Wrigley?
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Minister of Environment and Natural Resources, Mr. Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Transport Canada continues to investigate the situation. We, as well, have received the same initial information in terms of the amount of the spill, which was, according to the captain, estimated to be very small, between ten and 15 litres.
I know there have been concerns that there was an oil sheen or a sheen on the water that was quite expansive and extensive. Our people won’t even know. This is a Transport Canada issue. We were one of the first folks there. The issue was dealt with as quickly as possible. The formal numbers for the spill are relatively small.
I would like to commend our Department of Environment and Natural Resources for being there as quickly as they were. The federal department and the Coast Guard were very slow in getting there.
How do we do a balance of the fuel that was in the barge and the actual fuel that they did take out of that compartment? Once again, the constituents who were there on the site, as well, said that with the amount of sheen, the amount of spill seemed that it far, far exceeded the 20 litres that was reported. How can we get a good assessment of this, Mr. Speaker? Also, I don’t think it’s doing anybody any favours to be hiding any excess amounts.
Mr. Speaker, the barge contained 577,000 litres of fuel. The compartment that was punctured had about 85,000 litres of fuel. My understanding of the process is that the barge was hauled in to where it could be dealt with and repaired. The punctured compartment was pumped out, and the amount of litres that were taken out was of course measured against what was supposed to be in there. What those numbers are we don’t know yet. That information hasn’t been shared with us that I’m aware of. It’s still under investigation.
I don’t think that at this point it’s an issue of any kind of cover-up or folks hiding things. It’s fairly straightforward. The assumption is that when we see the report, they’ll be able to show the numbers: what was initially in the punctured compartment and what was pumped out.
I’m looking forward to any preliminary report that does come from the federal agencies or even ours. I’m just wondering if the Minister has any current report with regard to that spill.
Mr. Speaker, the investigation is still underway. I understand Transport Canada officials, the inspector, was in Hay River early in September to interview crew members as part of the investigation. I have yet to see any reports, preliminary or otherwise.
I will commit to the Member for the Sahtu and all the affected…. In fact, I’ll update all the Members once we get the report. Given the concern and the fact that this is a major river flowing down through the Mackenzie Valley, we’ll share that information with all the MLAs.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I guess what we need, as well, from our Government of the Northwest Territories perspective is a good post-mortem to see why some agencies didn’t respond in time. I’d like to ask the Minister at this time: will he be conducting an assessment from the GNWT perspective as to how effective the response was to this incident?
There is a plan to sit down and do the debriefing. We’ll see what Transport Canada comes up with in terms of the official report. We had officials on the ground in relatively short order, and they have perspective and some information and advice, I think, to bring to bear to ensure, as the Member indicates, that we do a proper post-mortem and debriefing to find out what happened and why and what can be learned from the incident to ensure that there’s no repetition in the future.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Member for Tu Nedhe, Mr. Beaulieu.
Mahsi cho, Mr. Speaker. Today I talked about the maintenance of heavy equipment assets in Fort Resolution and Lutselk’e and the need for the department to provide assistance to the communities. I’d like to follow up on my statement with questions for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs.
Will the department work with the communities in developing much needed maintenance programs for the heavy equipment assets in both Fort Resolution and Lutselk’e?
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The honourable Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, Mr. Robert McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As part of the New Deal the authority for capital infrastructure was transferred over to the communities. Along with that transfer came the responsibility for maintaining a lot of the equipment they have. Having said that, MACA does work with the community governments to establish preventative maintenance plans to ensure that equipment lasts for a while. There are also the community works advisers in each regional office to assist the communities in coming up with these plans.
I don’t believe the money allocated to the communities for this activity takes into consideration hiring qualified mechanics from outside the community or extra travel and accommodation costs for mechanics and, if parts are needed, expensive freight costs. Will the department look at increasing community budgets to allow them to properly maintain their equipment?
MACA provides O&M formula funding to all community governments to support them in operating and maintenance in their communities. They do a review every couple of years to see if there’s an increase that might be needed because of the high cost of living and supplying these services. MACA is always willing to support community governments to try to find the most cost-effective ways to take care of the equipment they have in the community.
Will the Minister and the department agree to do a mechanical assessment of all heavy equipment in Tu Nedhe to determine what needs to be done to assist the communities to reduce capital expenditures in this area?
As I said earlier, MACA is doing all it can and will continue and commit to working with the communities to identify their equipment and come up with any type of plan that they can. This is the early stage of the New Deal, and MACA is always willing help the communities come up with a plan until they’re to a point where the capacity is there to take care of all this type of information themselves.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At one time the Department of Public Works maintained an office and staff in Lutselk’e and also had mechanics in Fort Resolution who looked after the maintenance of all heavy equipment in the community. This was discontinued eight years ago. Would the Minister look at working with the Department of Public Works to assist the communities in maintaining their equipment, in addition to what MACA is doing?
As the Minister of MACA I can’t make a commitment of funds on behalf of other Ministers. However, I will commit again that MACA’s staff will work with community governments in Tu Nedhe to see what options they have and support them in ensuring their equipment and planning and preventative maintenance needs are looked after.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are addressed to the Premier. As I mentioned in my Member’s statement, the Premier believes that subsidies lower the cost of living. As I mentioned in my statement, I don’t agree with him.
All the Members in this House I think have expressed concern recently about the expected increase that we’re going to experience in home heating fuel. Some have suggested that the government must implement a subsidy to assist residents. I’d like to ask the Premier how a fuel subsidy will reduce the NWT cost of living.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The Hon. Premier, Mr. Roland.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The process we’re undergoing is budget preparations, as well as trying to look at cost effectiveness of programs. A number of initiatives we’ve started. The issue of subsidies is one we’ve looked at for quite a number of years. The total package ranges over $100 million, when you look at all the areas of housing, fuel subsidy and income support.
In the short term I’d say we have to look at the fact that we do limit the impact or stabilize the cost of living in many of our small and remote communities. Without that subsidy, the cost would go extremely higher. Our Territorial Power Support Program is an example of that. But I do believe in the long term that the market adjusts for those things. We do have to look at the way we spend our money in the area of subsidies and, as we go through our business plan preparations, be willing to hear from Members as to suggestions of how we look at things and ways we try to tackle this issue.
I thank the Premier for his comments. I didn’t really hear an answer — I guess I’m looking for a philosophical discussion here, but I didn’t really hear an answer — as to how the fuel subsidy will reduce the cost of living overall.
The cost of a litre of fuel is the cost of a litre of fuel, whether it’s subsidized or otherwise. A subsidy will simply reduce the bill to the building owner for heating that particular building. In my mind the only way to reduce the actual cost of living for the homeowner is to use an alternative or cheaper source of heat. I’d like to know if the Premier agrees with me.
I would agree with what the Member stated. The way we look at how we generate our electricity costs or just the generation of electricity and how it’s distributed across the North and then how we as a government deal with that side of it…. Again, our Territorial Power Support Program does limit and help with the cost of living in our more remote communities. If that full cost was passed on, then more dollars out of our constituents’ pockets would be spent on just utilities.
But we do need to look at other things. That is why, for example, the discussion paper has been launched by Minister Bob McLeod in the areas looking at alternative energies. As our budget preparation moves forward in the next cycle, we’re looking at trying to make critical investments in the area of other energy technologies so that we can look long term at reducing the cost of living. One of those big goals would be the hydro strategy.
Again, thanks to the Premier for his comments. He’s mentioned some of the things that we need to do, that we are doing, to try to mitigate the costs to all of our residents of actually living in this particular part of the country. I would like to ask the Minister specifically what actions are being undertaken to try and lower the cost of living for our residents in the short term. By short term I mean within the next six to eight months, over this winter.
Mr. Speaker, there are a number of things that are being reviewed in highlights of the upcoming budget preparations. More recently, for example, we’ve increased the Seniors Fuel Subsidy to limit the impact of the cost of living on our seniors who are on fixed incomes. That’s one of the areas, and again, that is short term. Other things we have to look at are mini hydro in some of our communities and wind technology to be put in place.
I think one of the other things we do need to look at, again, goes back to our main power source in the Northwest Territories and how we look at that. I stated earlier in this House that I met with the board and had a discussion with them about the fact that we could not leave any stone unturned in trying to limit the impact of the cost of living and the cost of electricity generation to Northerners.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you, Mr. Premier. I appreciate that some things are long term. I am particularly concerned, as I said, about the six to eight month period that’s upcoming. I hear that there are a couple of things there.
The Premier mentioned the increase in the subsidy for seniors for their home heating fuel. I have to state that I disagree that a subsidy is going to have an impact on the cost of living. The fuel is still going to cost the same amount of money whether there’s a subsidy for me as a senior or not. I’d like to say to the Premier that I think we have a disagreement in semantics. My understanding of the phrase “cost of living” I don’t think is the same as the Premier’s. I’d like to ask him if he agrees.
I agree to disagree, is maybe the term we can use. I look at the cost of living and I think a lot of us look at the cost of living as what we have pay out of our pockets to survive here in the Northwest Territories. Some of our steps are taken to mitigate that cost of living.
I agree that the cost for the real product is still there, and we have to work with that. For example, one of the other things we are working on through the Minister of ENR and his department, along with the Arctic Energy Alliance, I believe, is rebates on stoves and other equipment for homes. That, in the short term, can help individuals change over to a more efficient system that could help in their monthly costs as well.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My question is directed to the Minister of Finance in regard to the issue I raised about how fuel prices have declined greatly but our communities still pay a very high price. I used the situation in Aklavik, where the fuel increased by 3 cents to $1.76 a litre. To the Minister of Finance: do we have any consumer protection legislation in place that we can bring into force so that we can protect the consumers from these wide fluctuations in fuel prices?
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister of Finance, Mr. Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the small communities POL brings in the fuel. The resupply has been completed. Those costs and prices are set according to what they pay at the time of the resupply. In other communities on the road system that can be resupplied through the free market, there’s no regulatory regime in place to control prices, nor is there any on the books we have that I’m aware of.
Mr. Speaker, as we all know, the prices, especially with fuel commodities and gas, have no problem going up whenever there’s a fuel increase or there’s a hurricane in the Gulf of Mexico, but it seems like they have a real problem bringing down the prices when the price decreases.
Again, I’d like to ask the Minister, since we don’t have that legislation, if that is something the government would consider looking at, knowing that this problem does have implications right across Canada. I think as a territory we’re not exempt from that, especially when we do depend on provinces such as Alberta and elsewhere for our fuel commodities.
I’d like to ask the Minister: is that something this government’s considering in regard to reducing the cost of living and also having a system in place to protect the residents of the Northwest Territories?
The information I’ve seen from other jurisdictions where they’ve attempted to regulate gas prices just shows in the long term that there are no real long term benefits to the residents of that jurisdiction. In many cases it has a counterproductive influence, where if the prices aren’t right or if they’re too low, the folks who supply the fuel will just go to other jurisdictions where they can get a far better price. I don’t think, on the face of it, that we want to be running down the path setting up those kinds of forces in the market system we currently have.
Mr. Speaker, maybe the Minister can tell us exactly what type of authority this government does have, because it doesn’t seem like we are doing anything in this area. Does this government have responsibility in regard to consumer protection by way of a legislative authority?
We have some consumer protection authority in terms of the issue of regulating fuel prices. It’s not an area we are involved in. We do have the ability to set taxes on motive and non-motive fuel, but in terms of issuing instructions to the marketplace and putting in those types of price controls, it’s not an area we are involved in.
Thank you, Minister Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.
Mr. Speaker, again I’d like to ask the Minister if he can seriously take a look into this. I think we as government have the responsibility to protect our consumers from these types of unjust acts by big industry. I think it is an issue right across Canada, an issue in regard to oil companies making $30 billion profit. It seems like the consumer at the end of the day is the one getting the end of the pipe here. I’d just like to ask the Minister: will he seriously take a look at this and bring something back to the Legislative Assembly?
