It gives me great pleasure to join Mr. Lafferty to recognize another class, nursing students, from Aurora College: Jenna Alexander, Leslie Bader, June Bartlett, Heather La Foy, Lindsay Ransom, Shannon Rutherglen, Ayrma Schreurs and instructor Vee Faria. We would like to welcome them.
Mr. Speaker, it’s not every day that the women outnumber the men here in the House. I would like to welcome all the students from Aurora College, especially the students from the second year Social Work Program. I have two former constituents who are in the program, and I would to welcome them: Nellie Norwegian from Fort Providence and Cecile Deneyoua, formerly from Fort Providence and now living in Hay River. I’d like to say welcome to both of them.
Mr. Speaker, I would also like to welcome a constituent of mine who’s taking this valuable program for the people in the Sahtu: Ms. Dalphine Pierrot of Fort Good Hope, working in Norman Wells. I would also like to welcome Cecile Deneyoua, my sister-in-law.
I’d like to recognize Leslie Bader, at least a former constituent — perhaps still — and a practitioner of the arts. Welcome, Leslie.
I, as well, would like to welcome Cecile Deneyoua to the gallery today. She’s a constituent of mine from Hay River. To anyone else in the gallery that we’ve missed today, welcome to the House. I hope you’re enjoying the proceedings.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As all of us gave Member’s statements on the Power Corp today, I have questions for the Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corp. Can the Minister advise me if the NWT Power Corporation can re-examine their cost allocations in non-tangible areas such as profit, interest and amortization and try to lower the costs in those three areas?
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. The honourable Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation, Mr. Roland
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When the Power Corporation files for any rate applications or changes to its rates, it goes under review by the Public Utilities Board. It looks at the whole gamut of the operation in the Power Corporation. Those are areas that would be reviewed.
Amortization deals with the capital expenses of the public corporation and replacing assets that are on the ground that would need to be replaced, such as power poles, generation facilities and so on. We try to do the best we can in dealing with those areas. In fact, I believe we provide information to Members on the breakdown of those particular areas that affect the price rates that we pay in our communities.
Mr. Speaker, considering that the fuel resupply had occurred when fuel costs were at their highest, can the Minister advise if the NWT Power Corporation can do a comprehensive review of what they are charging the communities that are currently locked into the high cost of fuel that was resupplied this summer?
Mr. Speaker, the fuel resupply is something we work with the Department of Public Works and Services, Petroleum Products Division on. We combined the services I believe a couple of years ago so that we can enjoy a better sale price, if we can put it that way, on bulk purchasing of our product and our storage facilities in communities. The unfortunate thing is that when resupply happened, it was at about the highest price of oil throughout the season. That’s a difficulty we face. Already the Power Corporation is having to deal with the higher prices from future years. That’s why a rate application went into the system.
As for trying to go back and redo it and look at it for this fiscal year, that would be very difficult, because the Power Corporation operates under, I guess in a sense, the evaluation of the Public Utilities Board, which looks at the operation and what it can charge for rates in communities.
Mr. Speaker, in addition to the regulatory regime that directs the Power Corp and helps the Power Corp set their rates, can the Minister direct a comprehensive review of the NWT Power Corporation to examine its full operating costs, especially in the area of how they acquire the infrastructure?
Mr. Speaker, the process we’re involved with now is looking at the energy costs in the Northwest Territories through the Ministerial Energy Coordinating Committee as well as going through our business plans, looking at alternatives of operation. I met with the Northwest Territories Power Corporation board and discussed with them some of the impacts in the Northwest Territories. We need to definitely look at all of the operation. As Member Groenewegen stated, don’t leave any stone unturned.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It appears that other companies in other jurisdictions that provide power with hydro are able to provide that power to their customers at a much lower rate than the NWT Power Corporation is able to do. Can the Minister direct the NWT Power Corporation to examine a way to reduce the costs of hydro to the communities?
Mr. Speaker, the process that is in place right now is one, again, where the rate structure that’s in place is one the PUB operates under. We’ve heard one of the Members talk about community rate zones or postage stamp areas. In the last process when that issue was discussed, the Public Utilities Board stated that it would be up to the Assembly to decide what structures would be put in place. We couldn’t say for ourselves that we could direct the Power Corporation to lower rates in hydro communities alone. We would have to look at a structure through this forum here and decide if we want to make changes to our legislation that could affect how rates are looked at and then how the PUB would regulate that from that point on. So we’re prepared to look at all options that are before us in the Territories, but the direction for that side of it would have to come from this House.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Great Slave, Mr. Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Minister responsible for the NWT Power Corporation. I was wondering if the Minister could tell me what role he sees for the NWT Power Corp in the energy future of the Northwest Territories.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. The Minister responsible for the Power Corporation, Mr. Roland.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I guess the simplest way of saying it is that the role of the Power Corporation into the future of the Northwest Territories is one that’s evolving. Again, I met with the board of the Power Corporation. I stated that we have to look at how we operate and look at all facets of it. The fact that we have to look beyond the existing framework that’s in place is something that we shouldn’t shy away from as we look forward to how we generate and deliver power in the Northwest Territories.
Thanks to the Premier for that response. Could the Premier also tell me what kinds of partnerships are possible on energy projects?
Mr. Speaker, the partnership question is one where, as the Government of the Northwest Territories, we have to open the door on it more. In fact, there are already a number of partnerships that have been formed with the Power Corporation; ffor example, on some of our hydro facilities with aboriginal companies and corporations in the Northwest Territories. But if we’re going to go and look at the hydro strategy that’s been put before the Members, if we’re going to invest in that in the Northwest Territories, we’re going to have to partner up with companies that have deep pockets and as well have expertise in those areas. So, again, we have to look at our role as one that’s changing and evolving as we grow as a territory.
Once again thanks to the Premier for that response. Could the Premier also tell me what specific NWT energy projects could gain from partnerships with private industry?
Mr. Speaker, there are quite a number of projects that could benefit. There is a history within the North of partnering with some of the companies here in the Northwest Territories. The Taltson hydro project is an example of forming a partnership with aboriginal companies in the Northwest Territories. I think that is another example of how we move this project ahead when we get to the next stage after environmental review.
When it comes to the actual financing of the project, how do we move this ahead? The GNWT itself, as we talked about, as Members are aware…. The fiscal restraint that we face, our borrowing limit, all have an impact on the speed that a project of this nature can advance. We would have to look at projects like that. If we’re going to expand further, there have been discussions in the past with the Sahtu people about development of hydro there. We need to form partnerships with aboriginal partners in the Northwest Territories, and we’ll look for partners who have deep pockets.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mr. Abernethy.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and once again thank you for that response. Is the GNWT or the NWT Power Corp actively seeking partnerships on any energy projects in the NWT?
Mr. Speaker, there are some partnerships that have been formed, so the Power Corporation is involved in those. Are we seeking beyond that at this point? When I met with the Power Corporation board, the chairman as well, I stated that it’s something we have to pursue. The Government of the Northwest Territories side of it as well as the Power Corporation needs to pursue partnerships out there to come up with options. We shouldn’t always put our eggs in the basket of the federal government, for example.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d like to follow up on the questions for the Minister responsible for the Power Corporation. Does the current review of electricity rates that is in process include a review of the Power Corporation performance, its corporate innovation and so on?
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The honourable Minister responsible for the Power Corporation, Mr. Roland.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The work that we’re doing on the Ministerial Energy Coordinating Committee and looking at the structure, the rates, delivery, energy generation…. We’re looking at quite a number of options — opening the books, in a sense, to options that are out there. Members have suggestions when we go forward with this paper looking for further input as to other options that we may have missed.
Again, going on what has been stated before — I said it and Member Groenewegen said it earlier today — we should not leave any stone unturned when it comes to power generation and delivery in the Northwest Territories and the structure of the corporation.
I would like to acknowledge that there are many issues that the Power Corp is struggling with. There are some of the increasing efficiencies we’ve learned about and that are becoming available technically that make it harder to service the capital the Power Corp has to look after.
I think there could have been a much more innovative response to this and more innovative or progressive adoption of this technology.
Given this and the Minister’s comments, would he commit to starting a thorough and independent review of the Power Corporation which would include a possible restructuring to address all these issues?
Mr. Speaker, as we go through this process of developing the paper that we can bring forward to Members and looking at the option of what the Power Corporation is, how we deliver energy in the Northwest Territories, rate structures, regulation… There are a whole number of areas: the subsidy program itself, as well as what the Member has requested. I will take that message back to the energy coordinating committee and look to see how that can be implemented. We’ve had discussion about the distribution structure review. In a sense, as we go through these next steps, we as Members of this Assembly will be looking at those questions. Again, I’m prepared to sit down with Members and go through this in more detail and look at options that are available to us.
I appreciate those comments from the Minister. I think this is timely; a lot of our public are calling for it. I’m wondering if included in that could be the whole relationship with the Public Utilities Board. I haven’t heard the voice of the Public Utilities Board in this government. I wonder if there’s a way we could bring them to the table and get their perspective on this whole business. I know they’re saddled with some responsibility for at least the financial end of the Power Corporation’s business.
Mr. Speaker, the role of the PUB, as well as the role of the Power Corporation in the Northwest Territories, is one that is directed by the legislation that we as an Assembly control. There’s always opportunity to bring them in to have a discussion about the legislation they operate under. I stated earlier the need to look at some of the legislation that we can impact and that should pose potential changes for the future.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final supplementary, Mr. Bromley.
Perhaps I wasn’t talking so much about changing the Public Utilities Board as giving them a voice so that we can be fully informed. I think we are doing a review of the Power Corporation, or at least recognize the need for it. Where is the voice of the Public Utilities Board here?
That leads me to my final question. The last Assembly adopted, I believe it’s called, the NWTEC, Northwest Territories Energy Corporation, or something like that, that’s now the umbrella organization. How does that corporation fit with the responsibilities of the Power Corporation and protecting our consumers, working to the benefit of our residents?
Mr. Speaker, one could say the reason that legislation was adopted by the previous government was to protect the residents of the Northwest Territories. For example, if the Power Corporation itself, which is fully regulated by the PUB…. I must say, on the PUB side their voice is being heard through this process, as the Minister responsible seeks their input in some of the work he brings to the table. That aside, the rate structure, or the structure that was put into place around the hydro corporation side of things, was done in a way that would minimize impact on the rate base or the residential groups and commercial groups out there that are now regulated.
For example, if we were to do hydro expansion within the existing framework, all of those costs per capita would end up being borne by the rate base of the Northwest Territories or that region or community. It was felt that in today’s framework, that would not be affordable for individuals or companies. Instead, for example, the Taltson is outside that system. It’s going to be paid for by industry if the plan moves ahead as it’s been designed.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I, too, would like to continue the questioning with regard to the NWT Power Corp Minister.
I just wanted to lay out the land a little bit. During my travels in my constituency people are concerned about the government’s plan to increase taxation in various different areas. They’re concerned about the high costs of heating fuel and gasoline fuel that continue to rise even though they’re falling worldwide. Another concern is that now our government, in its infinite wisdom, wants to raise the power rates, Mr. Speaker. That’s something to which I’m fundamentally opposed.
I just wanted to lay out that the little people in our smaller communities are impacted. I just want to say that far before Joe the Plumber, there was Granny from Nahanni, and she’s impacted by all these costs of living pressures.
The Minister is responsible for the NWT Power Corp, which put forward the General Rate Application to increase the power rate. I’d like to ask the Minister, now, if he can withdraw that application.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Power Corporation, Mr. Roland.
Mr. Speaker, the rate application has been put forward to the PUB; it’s being reviewed. We’ll expect a ruling on that and take the direction from that process.
The problems…. I mean, it’s not as simple as my declaring that that rate application be pulled. The simple fact is that right now, in our existing framework, the Power Corporation has to work within the legislation as regulated by the PUB and has to show and cover the cost of operation. It goes through that process. What we do as the GNWT outside of that is, for example, through the Territorial Power Support Program, where we match the Yellowknife rate for every community outside Yellowknife that pays a higher price. That’s our way of limiting the impact. For example, the rate rider application that’s out there…. The majority of that will be caught by the Territorial Power Support Program.
I do want to make the case that the world has changed in the last six months, Mr. Speaker. Our financial world went topsy-turvy, and we cannot be relying on our old user pay system that’s there just because fuel prices are going up. We cannot go to Granny from Nahanni and ask for more money to pay the power costs in those communities. Because of that, I ask again: can we stop this current General Rate Application process? It’s based on old, erroneous information. Plus I do not believe that this General Rate Application includes the review of operating maintenance costs, which the people have to pay for, and the bonuses that are included. Mahsi.
Mr. Speaker, the Member talked about old, erroneous numbers. The numbers are tested quite thoroughly with the volumes of information that have to be provided to the Public Utilities Board about the operation of the Power Corporation and why it’s seeking any changes to its rates. That is something that is there. Those numbers are proven. Our question and further justification if required is given. That is a fairly substantial process with the volumes of information that have to be given at any application to the PUB around rate structures and changes to rates.
The bigger piece…. Again, I say that the government overall provides the Territorial Power Support Program, which minimizes the impact on individuals outside of Yellowknife who pay a higher rate than Yellowknife. That’s, I guess, the area that we would have to look at if we want to minimize further impact across the North.
As well, as I’ve already mentioned to a number of other Members — now that we are going through this process of looking at energy development, generation, regulation — that here’s the opportunity with which this House can give clear direction on how we proceed and how we change things going forward. Because I agree: we can’t continue doing business the same old way.
Once again, I believe that the General Rate Application is based on erroneous information, and I’d like to see that it is at least withdrawn until it is re-evaluated one more time. That’s something that people have been telling us as their MLAs. The will of the people also becomes the will of this House. And that’s something I’d like to bring to the Minister. Will he look at pulling the General Rate Application, reassess the application package and put in some consistent and current information?
The fact is that the information provided goes through much scrutiny and is tested. It is not erroneous information. That’s the environment that we have to operate in, the existing framework. Members want to change that framework. As I’ve stated already, we are more than open to looking at changing the framework we operate in, and that’s across anything from the rates to the regulations to the structure. It is time that we as the Government of the Northwest Territories look to the future of what we can provide and how that provision of services affects the constituents in our communities.
Again, much of this rate application will get picked up through the Territorial Power Support Program for those people who live within the 700 kilowatt hours.
