Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final short supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Once again, I say it’s an old system. It comes from I don’t know how many years back. It’s backwards, and it’s not working for the people. We’re asking people to save power in the smaller communities, yet in order to make money, the Power Corporation has to charge more. That’s a backwards system. I’d like the Minister to acknowledge that and look at changing that system and stop this General Rate Application and review it.
With the existing framework we have to operate under — that is, the acts that are in place, the Public Utilities Board regulation process — if we were to delay this process, then the potential is that next year we would have to go for even a higher request for operation.
The fact that individuals have been saving on their energy use, yes, is one that helps, in a sense. But, Mr. Speaker, I’ll speak from experience. I have a large family; I have a home in Inuvik and pay a higher rate than Yellowknife. For approximately 11 months of the year I keep — I should say, my wife keeps — the power consumption below the 700 kilowatt hours, and we live within that time frame. Now, not all people can do that, because of the quality of the homes they live in and the nature of the weather and weather patterns.
But, again, if we want to change the way it’s looked at, the way it’s reviewed and how we provide power, the opportunity’s here. I’m agreeing: let’s do that; let’s really look at how we deliver those services. Through the Ministerial Energy Coordinating Committee we’re working on a paper that we can bring to Priorities and Planning and set the direction we go in the Northwest Territories.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Jacobson.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In my Member’s statement today I spoke about the high power costs in my riding of Nunakput and the fact that longer winters mean the people I represent consume more power. My questions today are for the Minister responsible for the territorial power subsidy, the Hon. Michael Miltenberger.
Can the Minister explain to this Assembly how the figure of 700 kilowatts, subsidized to the Yellowknife rate, came into being? My understanding is that this is the cost to run a fridge and a furnace and few lights.
Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. The honourable Minister of Finance, Mr. Miltenberger.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. We inherited the Territorial Power Support Program when we took over the Power Corporation in 1988. The 700 kilowatt figure was, as I understand, sort of an average cost for your average household. It’s been there for some time, but I believe it’s for the total cost per household, as opposed to a fridge, a stove and a couple of light bulbs.
The Minister said in 1988; that’s a long time ago. I think I was 16 years old. Would the Minister agree that the far northern communities that I represent may need more than the 700 kilowatts of power provided to a minimum household?
Mr. Speaker, the 700 kilowatts is an average consumption figure, and most families across the North are able to live with that.
As Canadians, as Northerners we add more and more power using applications and appliances that drive up our own costs. We have things like vampires that just keep running 24 hours a day, waiting quietly to be called into use; we keep adding to our power consumption.
The issue is, is it more or is it conservation? The Yukon, I understand, has 1,000 kilowatts; we have 700. That’s an issue of debate. The commercial subsidy is another one that’s an issue of debate as well.
Will the Minister commit to examining the issue to determine whether the 700 kilowatt total is still relevant and whether the government should consider a tiered approach on the amount of kilowatts that are subsidized depending on where we live in the NWT?
The Premier has indicated today and it’s been mentioned in the past that we have an opportunity with the work that’s occurred and underway to look at the regulation, the generation and the distribution of power in the Northwest Territories: the subsidies, the differential rate zones that are currently in place, the structure of the Power Corporation. Those are all subjects that are on the table for discussion as we look at dealing with the cost of energy, the cost to the small communities, sustainable communities, conserving energy and greenhouse gas emissions. All those things are now here for us in this Legislature to put our minds to.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. Final supplementary, Mr. Jacobson.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would the Minister commit to sharing the results of such a study with the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Infrastructure?
Better than that, Mr. Speaker; we’re basically, as a government, reaching out to the Members to say, “Let’s engage together to look at this very complex, difficult subject, in terms of the redesign, the structures” — the very issues that the Members have identified as problematic. The opportunity is here. The work is underway. We’re looking at doing a lot of things in the next number of months that are going to be fundamental in terms of the changes they could bring. Collectively, we could do a very good job of this.
Thank you, Mr. Miltenberger. The honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I stated earlier, my question is going to be directed to the Minister responsible for the Public Utilities Board.
Mr. Speaker, this government, every four years, goes through an application process of some 33 applications that have to be compiled and submitted to the PUB board for review. The PU review board is the one that establishes the rates that are going to be implemented in the communities. It’s not the Power Corp; it’s the PUB.
There was a decision made in the early ’90s to establish postage stamp rates, which means that every community has to apply individually in regard to what the rate is going to be. This government alone spends almost $3 million on these rate applications for 28 communities, not counting the Northland Utilities’ application.
I did move a motion in this House back in February directing the government to approach the Public Utilities Board and make amendments to the Public Utilities Act to allow the Legislative Assembly to consider looking at levelized rates. I’d like to ask the Minister if he’s had an opportunity to meet with the PUB for them to bring forward legislation that will allow us to establish levelized rates.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. The honourable Minister responsible for the Public Utilities Board, Mr. Bob McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The motion that was moved by the Member and was approved by the Legislative Assembly I think will assist us in our review. As I’ve written to the Member, we are undertaking a review. We will be asking the general public, the people who pay the bills, to give us their feedback and direction as to how we should deal with this issue.
The PUB takes direction from this Legislative Assembly. Through the legislation we direct how they should operate. Once this review is undertaken and we obtain the results and we reach agreement as to how we should regulate it, we will then give the necessary direction to the PUB.
Mr. Speaker, as stated by the Premier and now the Minister responsible for the PUB, has the government considered bringing forward legislation that will direct the PUB to take a look at levelized rates?
Mr. Speaker, we’re looking at a wide range of possibilities with regard to rates. We want to hear from the people out there, the electricity users, whether that is something that would be supported. A levelized rate would mean that everybody pays the same rates throughout the Northwest Territories, whether you use hydroelectricity or thermal electricity or diesel electricity. At the time the decision was made to go with the postage rates, it was felt that rates should be accumulated by individual communities. With our review we will go to the communities, and we will find out what the users want.
Mr. Speaker, as I stated in my statement, this government alone can save almost $12 million. Right now we pay a subsidy of over $9 million a year. It costs this government a little over $3 million to do these rate applications. There are savings that could be major by simply changing the direction the PUB has taken by establishing the 33 rate system, where basically 33 applications have to be reviewed every four years. Has the government looked at the cost savings in regard to making this decision, unilaterally knowing that there are cost savings to be had here? Has the Minister looked at the cost savings we can derive from changing the way we do this?
The Public Utilities Board prides itself on the amount of money it saves the average consumer by disallowing some of the costs put forward by the Power Corporation. One of the things we have to take into consideration is if we don’t have the Public Utilities Board reviewing the rate applications, who will review those rates? Who will ensure that the costs are appropriate?
Having said all that, we are undertaking a review. We are looking at how the Public Utilities Board operates, and we’re looking at whether there are other regulatory mechanisms that would be more cost effective and feasible.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Krutko.
Mr. Speaker, as we’ve heard time and time again, everywhere you go, everybody wants to deregulate and make things straightforward and simple. I think this government should also be amenable to that.
I would like to ask the Minister, knowing from his last comment about who’s going to do it…. I think maybe it’s time the Legislative Assembly established rates through legislation, that we establish exactly what the fee structure is going to be and do it through legislation and simply leave it to a board that will do it. I’d like to ask the Minister: have you considered the deregulation of this industry and making it simplified by simply legislating fees on the floor of this House?
As we said, we are undertaking a review where we’re going to leave no stone unturned. We’re looking at every option, including if the Legislative Assembly wants to take on the responsibility for setting the power rates. If that’s what we want to do, we will look at that option. Somehow I don’t think we want to do that, but we will undertake a review, and we will come forward with the results.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.
Mr. Speaker, 42,000 people in the Northwest Territories own the Power Corporation. This government acts on behalf of the shareholders. We have a Minister that takes care of the Power Corporation. We now have a new committee of Ministers — the energy coordinating committee.
I want to ask the Minister of the new coordinating committee, Mr. McLeod, in terms of the mini hydro initiative. I talked about privatization and partnerships; it’s a very complex issue. I would ask the Minister if the mini hydro initiatives in Whati, Lutselk’e and Délînê are on target, are they going to be supported by this government in terms of reducing the cost of energy in their communities? Then we can look at some form of partnership, maybe privatization, in terms of that type of initiative that would bring the Power Corporation in line with the true meaning of partnerships. Would the Minister let the people know that these initiatives are on target, they are on the go, and we are going to fully support them?
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Minister responsible for the Public Utilities Board, Mr. McLeod.
Mr. Speaker, as a government we have released a number of discussion papers. We have an energy priorities paper that we have released, which identified all of our priorities. We are now entering the second phase, whereby we will be coming forward with business plans in which we will identify the resources necessary to undertake the initiatives we have identified. If the Assembly approves, then we will have the resources to be able to continue with these very important projects.
I look forward to the plans and to the reports in terms of the Assembly and the priorities on the initiatives. There are many initiatives set up by communities to own power. We are sharing the power, sharing responsibility with our communities — the same thing with the Power Corporation. Now it is the time to give that to the people, share the power with the people.
The question I have for the Minister in terms of this initiative is: would the Minister look at similar projects they did in Whati, where power information, educating the people in terms of how we best conserve, generate, save power in the community…? Whati did a very wonderful project in terms of conserving energy with the youth and elders. Is that something we’re looking at in terms of this committee — going down to Mackenzie Valley and saying: “We’ll share the responsibility; what we are going to do is educate you on what types of initiatives we can do to conserve energy in the North”?
Mr. Speaker, certainly we want to work with the small communities. Recognizing the high cost of energy in communities and as we roll out our business plans, we expect to have working with the communities be a large part of it.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. A short supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.
Mr. Speaker, in terms of the issue of privatization and how we go about it, the mayor of Norman Wells has said: “Why don’t we sell the Power Corporation?” — in terms of having our own communities look after energy issues in our regions. Would that type of discussion happen with our Assembly, with our communities, as to how we best get energy issues on the table that would seem to help our people in our region in terms of privatization? I know it is a wide spectrum. What things could the Minister bring forward to this type of discussion with our region?
Mr. Speaker, I too was at the meeting where we heard a number of mayors suggest that we sell some assets. These are the kinds of questions we are asking as we are undertaking our review. I think we have to be very careful. Some of these suggestions could have serious repercussions. If we’re going to privatize our electrical generating companies — and I also hear other Members saying we should have deregulation…. If you look at other provinces where they have had deregulation, where everything is in the private sector…. I am not saying it is a bad thing; our department has the lead for privatization as well. But we need to find out from the public how they feel about it. As we undertake this review, we will take everything we hear and then we’ll come forward with recommendations.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. A final short supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.
Mr. Speaker, the Minister sent a letter to the Members indicating the process to go through this Ministerial Energy Coordinating Committee in terms of how we’ll come to a discussion paper by next spring. The Minister has indicated that this will happen. I am grateful and I look forward to that; members of my region look forward to that.
I would like to ask in the short term, between now and springtime, what we can do to help our people. When we leave here, they are going to ask us what we’re doing to reduce the cost of energy. To share the power, can the Minister, through his committee, look at initiatives such as having smart meters put into the communities? If they’re getting close to 700 kilowatts, they would know that it’s time to start unplugging certain appliances so they can save money. Right now we have lights on, and we don’t know. Would the Minister look at that on an interim basis in terms of implementing a program like this?
We are undertaking our review shortly. We’ll be coming out with a discussion paper. I think it would be of great assistance for the community leaders and people to tell us what their concerns are and how they would like to see us operate. We’ll be coming forward with those short term/long term solutions through the business planning process. In the longer term, with the results of the review and feedback and direction from the Members here, we would look at making whatever changes would be required, including restructuring, new rates, what have you.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions are addressed to the Chair of the Ministerial Energy Coordinating Committee, Mr. McLeod. I stated in my Member’s statement that there needs to be a fundamental change to the NWT Power Corporation. We’re at the beginning of a review, as we’ve heard several times, that’s going to look at electricity rates, regulation and subsidies. But in terms of the Power Corporation itself, I’d like to ask the Minister: what kind of analysis is being undertaken for the NWT Power Corporation as part of this review?
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The honourable Minister responsible for the Power Corporation, Mr. Roland.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’m aware that the Member has asked the Chair of the Ministerial Energy Coordinating Committee, but I can respond as well in this area. We sat down together and looked at those options of what work is being done. We’re in the early stages of setting out options around regulation and around power structures and so on.
I think it will be when we have that paper delivered to Members and start to discuss what Members would like to see happening, with options, for example, that Members have discussed here. We’re open to looking at a whole number of initiatives that can have a serious look at the Power Corporation itself and how we deliver energy in the North.
Mr. Speaker, I thank the Minister for the answer. I am concerned, though. My question is specifically related to the structure of the Power Corporation and how it operates as a business. Not having seen the terms of reference for this particular review, I’d like to get some sense from the Minister as to what kinds of things, what kinds of analyses, are going to be done on the corporation as a business under this review.
Mr. Speaker, the review is quite open to a whole number of options. We can decide here, as an Assembly, what should be undertaken. The business operation in the existing framework is quite clear — the structure that we have to operate in. Again, as I said earlier, it is up to this Assembly if we want to change that; for example, the act that the Power Corporation acts under and how the PUB regulates the industry in the Northwest Territories. There are a number of things, right from programs we as the GNWT deliver. The Power Corporation itself is open to what the Members would like to consider in the review in that area.
We’ve heard about this review for some time now. I had understood, though, when it was originally put forward, that it was going to be well underway at this point. It sounds now as though it’s going to be some time before we get anywhere. From the Premier’s last answer, it sounds as though the terms of reference are not out there. Can I ask when we might expect the results of this particular review?
Mr. Speaker, the process we’re involved with incorporates more than just the Power Corporation itself. It takes in the whole gamut of power generation, distribution, regulation, the Territorial Power Support Program. That’s why we’re in the process here of coming up with a document. We should be ready, hopefully, before Christmas. We’ll be able to sit down with Members and go through the work that’s been done and what it entails and seek further direction from Members as well in that area.
Thank you, Mr. Roland. Final short supplementary, Ms. Bisaro.
