Thank you, Minister Lee. Thank you Mr. Beaulieu. Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, have a similar question in regards to the Minister and just looking at the statistics that we see from the department. In the Inuvik region, based on 2006 statistics, people over the age of 70, there are 250 individuals identified in 2006. Again, I think these numbers are a little low, from the information that I have been pulling together. I have tabled information in the Legislature in the last sitting in regards to the information that was pulled together from Fort McPherson, which identified some 122 individuals over the age of 60 and 86 people over the age of 70 in Fort McPherson. I know that Fort McPherson has raised this issue with the department. There was a motion passed at the Gwich’in Assembly requesting that they consider looking at some sort of a care facility for the number of elders in Fort McPherson.
Again, I think that with the policy decisions in other jurisdictions, in regards to Alberta and in regards to the 48-hour rule now in place, because the majority of people that we do send to the southern health centres are the aged, they are frail and also, more importantly, patients that are diagnosed with cancer and whatnot are going through that process. I think it is something that we should be seriously looking at.
But again, I think just looking at the statistics and the demographics of the different regions, I think that at some point the facilities that we already have are not going to be able to accommodate the growing population, especially the seniors population. I believe your information is a little... It is from 2006, but I don’t think it really includes all those individuals that I mentioned by way of the statistics that we have.
Again, I would just like to ask the Minister with the issues raised by my colleague from Tu Nedhe, in regards to the... We do have to have some means of community care in regards to elderly care, some sort of a transitional process so that as you age, you are going to move into a different structure regardless if you are lame, you need a wheelchair, you need wheelchair access, you have different needs because of physical needs, and the facilities that we have that can’t accommodate a simple home in our communities, you are going to have to make some revisions there. So I’d like to ask the Minister, in light of the issues that are being raised in our communities, what is this government doing to provide that care facility that may be less than a long-term care facility but more of having care facilities in our communities that actually offer something close to 24-hour care. I believe there is a need. There is definitely community support for this and regional support in the region I come from. So how open are you to look at those alternative care facilities in other communities, which will be provided either through arrangements between our aboriginal governments, Department of Health and Social Services and, more importantly, the NGOs and groups that do provide these types of opportunities so we can keep our elders in our communities as long as we can? Thank you.
This capital plan is for this upcoming fiscal year. We have based it on the long-term care planning facilities needs study, but this is not a final sort of document that’s not to be changed forever. The long-term care needs have to be reviewed every five years. The populations will tell us where the needs are and it is possible that Aklavik and McPherson combined for the Gwich’in Nation, that they may be able to establish a long-term care facility that they could jointly share.
The important part is that this is a template that we can work on, and I think the department has done really good work in terms of having a long-term kind of view on where we need to go. We have worked out a prototype on long-term care facilities, the staffing needs, what we should look like, what should be provided there so that you don’t have to reinvent the wheel every single time. Future Legislatures, this is something that’s going to be on us every year. We’re going to have to look at what the long-term care bed needs are in our Territories.
For now, we are presenting the best plan we can at the moment and at the same time supporting communities in a way that can allow our elders to stay in the community, create local jobs as much as possible, and they don’t necessarily have to be done 24/7. Home care is still a good option for many communities. That has to come hand in hand with long-term care facilities. The less we have people staying in long-term care facilities, the better. That means our population is being taken care of better. Modern technology and treatment options allow for that, but there will always be our people who need to be in a more acute care facility and we have to address that separately.
To answer the Member’s question, this is an ongoing concern. This doesn’t end here. We need to constantly review to see where the needs are, and these plans are subject to change. This is a plan for this year at this time on the information that we have. Thank you.
I think one of the biggest cost drivers we have as governments, and other governments throughout Canada or around the world for that matter, is the aging demographics that we’re starting to see in regard to the baby boomer population. It is now coming that that age and that’s going to be one of the higher population service areas in all governments and I think that we can’t rely on statistics from 2006. I think that we need to get more actual statistics on what those real numbers are. I think that we’re projecting 2026 in regard to that population.
So I think that just for statistical information we have an opportunity here coming up shortly in the next statistics in the Northwest Territories by Stats Canada, I think it’s 2011, and I think that’s something that we should very much demand is that part of the collection of data and information does look at the aging of population and the demographics in regard to the disabled, the frail and the actual type of care people need. So I think it’s something that we have to be cognizant of and realize the importance of community programs.
I think a lot of times when it comes to community programs we’re sort of the poor second cousins and all the bigger facilities seem to be built at the regional level. We need to start looking at developing these systems from the centre up, not from the community down. So I think that we do have to change that concept and actually see programs and services being delivered in those communities, and for the aging population that are being treated differently simply because of where they live, those days should be over.
I’d like to ask the Minister, you keep referring to the different types of care, regardless of if it’s in home care, but, again, a lot of times in our communities it’s treated differently because it’s based on population distribution. It’s based on half days, it’s not a full-time position. I think to be realistic about the programs and services, in order to make them work you have to have a full gamut of programs and services that work like any other larger centre such as the Inuvik region. The only community that has larger numbers than the Inuvik region, 250, is Yellowknife with 305. For 18,000 people having 305 elders over 70 compared to the Inuvik region of 250, that tells me demographically there are a lot more elders in the Inuvik region spread out over a wider area and in more communities than in Yellowknife. I think that has to be seriously taken into consideration.
So I’d like to get some assurance from the Minister that they will seriously take a look at this and ensure that we actually have programs that really work for the elders’ care in our communities and long-term care, regardless if it’s a long-term care facility or it’s one notch down from that type of care, 24-hour care. Make it 23-hour care and that way we’ll be satisfied. So we’ll give you an hour back. How’s that for savings?
Home care worker jobs are not inferior jobs. They’re not part-time jobs. It’s going to be a more important profession. They get schooled to do home care work. They do anything from post-op care or working with persons with disabilities, looking after the elderly, working with the nurses and doctors and looking after their medication. Home care is huge and it’s going to be a more and more important area for taking care of our residents all across Canada.
Those will become, actually I think those are better economic opportunities for our people in small communities where our people in our communities can take those jobs and they’ll be good paying, long-term jobs for years. Whereas, I think the Member would be the first to agree that not all of the jobs in the health care field are being taken by our local labour, and the Joe Greenland Centre right now, the plan is in place. So I think that’s a really good plan. I think the Member worked hard to win the battle, so to speak, and he has done that. The Housing Corp has committed to renovate that facility. That needs to be done and we will be able to accommodate a larger number of seniors than who are there now, and a large portion of the money we’re already using on labour. We will be able to have strengthened home care service in Aklavik and that is really good news.
I don’t think we should be judging the work of senior care by how many 24/7 care we have. I think we’ve got to look at the quality of care we’re going to provide our seniors. Thank you.
I just have a question for the Minister, maybe she can provide the information. Can you give me the information on how many northern aboriginal people are working in the health care system when it comes to long-term care facilities in the Northwest Territories and what are those statistics, since you keep saying that we have not been able to fill all these jobs? How many long-term Northerners and aboriginal caregivers do we have in the long-term care facilities in the Northwest Territories to date? Broken down by each community or facility.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. That question will be appropriate when we get into mains or during formal proceedings. Ms. Lee.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I could get that information, because every facility I go to there are many, many aboriginal people that work in these long-term care facilities in the Territories. I also need to add home care, because that’s what I’m talking about. Home care jobs are good jobs and they are jobs that our local people can take on. Home care has many aspects to that profession. I will provide that information to the Member.
Thank you, Ms. Lee. I ask the Minister and Members to stick to capital infrastructure here. Any further comments? Questions? Page 6-9, Department of Health and Social Services, activity summary, community health programs, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure investment summary, $800,000.
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. We will return to page 6-2, Health and Social Services, department summary, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure investment summary. Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’d like to ask the Minister about the Behchoko long-term care facility, which is going to be added onto the existing health facility. Right now there’s a long-term lease commitment for that facility in Behchoko. I’d like to know, once we make the investment of some $14 million, who is going to own that facility. Will we continue being committed to the long-term lease arrangement for the existing facility in Behchoko?
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. That’s appropriately under community health programs. Did you wish to return to that section?
I’m talking about the overall investment summary, so I think it falls within this department. It’s okay. It can be answered here, because it is dealing with the total amount.
You’re asking a question about the Behchoko community facility specifically which is under community health programs.
Okay. I’ll go back.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Does committee agree to return to community health programs, page 6-9?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Mr. Krutko, you’ve asked your question. Are you prepared to answer, Ms. Lee?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The land tenure issue or whether a building will be leased once built, those are all responsibilities under DPW. We apply for a project under function and once it’s approved, DPW takes care of that. I could undertake to get that information from the Minister.
Thank you, Minister Lee. Mr. Krutko.
Maybe just for clarification to the Minister, my understanding is the existing health facility in Behchoko is a leased facility from the local community development corporation. You have a long-term lease for that facility. What happens when you develop this new facility? Who will be responsible for that long-term lease? Do we have to pay it out or are we going to eventually take full ownership of that facility? Will there be some buy-out option to that lease arrangement? Are we locked in for the long-term of this lease commitment?
My understanding is that the long-term care facility is an NWT Housing Corporation asset. I think the Member might be referring to the health centre which we have a lease arrangement with. That’s separate from this project. Any future arrangements that might come to play would be something that would be done by DPW.
Under the Tlicho Health Authority, under the Tlicho Government, this facility, will it be a part of an asset of the Tlicho Government through the self-government arrangement with them with respect to developing assets in the Tlicho region?
No, this will be a GNWT asset.
Okay, just clarification on the existing facility. What happens to the existing facility in the Tlicho community in regard to the Lee Erasmus Facility?
My understanding is that building will come down and the new building will be built on that site to replace it. That existing building has flooring problems or roofing problems and where using the same site.
Under the new regulation it stipulates that you have to have, to operate under a new model that you’re using, you have to have 18 beds and it has to be adjacent to a Level B or C health centre. Will the health centre be in the new facility?
The B-C health centre has to be in the community so that we have access to physicians.
So who owns the Level B or Level C health facility?
I need to get more detail. I don’t want to get the facts wrong. I believe some of it is leased. Government is leasing from Tlicho the B-C health centre, but not the long-term care centre that is there right now. I will confirm that. I just want to make sure that I have my information correct. That’s my understanding.
Unless someone else has information that can answer that question, either Public Works or whatnot. I believe it is important that if we do lease facilities and we are building new facilities, is the objective of the government to own its facilities outright and get out of these leases and own our own health centres in our communities?
I thought I answered the question on the long-term care facility. It’s a GNWT facility. We’re going to build it. Health and Social Services will own it. It will be a GNWT asset. We’ll provide O and M for it. Tlicho Community Services Agency doesn’t have anything to do with it.
The reason I wanted to follow up is that I know we have some lease arrangement on the health centre for a part of it. I don’t know if it’s the office or what, because we’ve done some renovations there. They’re not related. That’s not related to this project. This is a GNWT facility.
Maybe I’ll allow the Minister to get that information, but I think it’s sort of irregular to have ownership of a facility on one hand and then telling the communities that you can’t formulate these partnerships or leases for other facilities such as long-term care facilities in other communities. Yet you’re allowing it to happen here with the lease of a health centre in Behchoko. I think it’s something that has to be taken into consideration in light of what precedent is being used in this case.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. We will await further information on who owns the current health centre in Behchoko. That will be provided by the Minister, unless there is somebody else here who can comment on that. Thank you very much. Committee, I think that I don’t see any more questions on page 6-9. Page 6-9, Health and Social Services, activity summary, community health programs, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure investment summary, $800,000. Is committee agreed?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Return to the deferred summary on page 6-2, Department of Health and Social Services, department summary, infrastructure investment summary, total infrastructure investment summary, $16.291 million.
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Does committee agree that this concludes Department of Health and Social Services infrastructure 2011-2012 Capital Estimates?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. I’d like to thank the Minister and her witness, Ms. Meade, and ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort the witness from the Chamber.
Does committee agree that we will next do the Department of ITI?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. I’ll ask the Minister if he wishes to bring in witnesses.
I do, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. I’ll ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.
Committee, I’m going to call a three-minute recess.
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Thank you, committee. I’d like to call Committee of the Whole back to order and ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.
Could I ask the Minister to please introduce his witnesses?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On my left I have Peter Vician, deputy minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment; on my right I have Doug Doan, assistant deputy minister. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Welcome witnesses. Committee, we have before us the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment. Page 10-2 is the department summary, which we will defer until after the detail. The first section is tourism and parks, page 10-3 through 10-5, with the financial summary on page 10-4. Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think that we do have to seriously look at the capital investment in this portfolio, especially in the area of tourism and parks. I think that, if anything, we, as government, have basically let this department down by the lack of capital investment that we put into the area of tourism and parks, especially for the Northwest Territories when we look at the economic sector when it comes to tourism and the increased amount of road traffic we’re seeing. We have more tourists and on the Dempster Highway we’re seeing more and more RVs coming up the Dempster from Whitehorse. Most of the tourists are from Europe off of direct flights between Frankfurt, Germany, and Whitehorse in the Yukon, where we’re seeing a lot of European tourists. Again, I think a lot of facilities that we have designed in the Northwest Territories were not really designed for that type of road traffic.
I believe that we do, as a government, have to really seriously make some major capital investment in the area of parks, and more importantly, the other parks that we established up and down our highway systems, especially for the amount of road traffic we are seeing in the area of tourism on all our highways, except the challenge of travelling Highway No. 7. I think, if anything, if that highway was in the shape that it should be, we would probably see more increase in road traffic on that highway.
Again, one thing that we need to very much look at is how we develop the capital planning process for tourism and parks. Most of the capital we do in the area of highways is building infrastructure based on a 20-year needs survey looking at actual replacement costs. I’d like to ask the Minister, in light of the lack of capital investment we’ve put into this area, what can we do to make more investment to improve or, basically, bring in more tourism revenues. More importantly, how can we make better use of those facilities that we have by bringing them to a better standard than they’re presently at compared to other jurisdictions such as the Yukon, B.C. or Alberta, in regard to their park facilities? I’d like to ask the Minister what are we doing to improve our image by way of the road traffic or RV tourists and, more importantly, having the facilities to accommodate them. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. Minister McLeod.
