Mr. Speaker, the issue of the land rovers coming in from B.C., these six land rovers that came very close to some very sensitive areas in the Sahtu along the Heritage Trail. These vehicles tear up the muskeg road. I want to ask the Minister in terms of him working with the Minister of Transportation in terms of some restrictions on this piece of road here. As you know, Mactung Mine, close to the border, has filed for some application to start up their project here. It will become very busy. The Yukon government has put thousands of dollars into upgrading the North CANOL Road. I want to ask the Minister of ITI if he would be working closely with the Minister of Transportation to restrict the use of vehicles like the land rovers in the Northwest Territories on the CANOL Trail.
As the Member knows, the whole trail is under the auspices of the federal government. It is federal land. It is under their control, but, nevertheless, we as a government will be spending funds to put up proper signage to make sure that all members of the public that enter into this area are aware of who owns the land. Also, I understand, the first 18 kilometres is Sahtu lands that have been selected by the Sahtu governments. We are also holding meetings with the Sahtu beneficiaries. We will be holding workshops to make sure everybody understands the importance of protecting the land. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, would the Minister consider adding some monitoring stations at the border here in terms of monitoring the use of vehicles on the proposed CANOL Heritage Trail?
We do work with ENR and we do have a checkstop there during the summer months. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final supplementary, Mr. Yakeleya.
Mr. Speaker, would the Minister consider having a working partnership with the Sahtu people so that if these land rovers ever do decide to come back to the Northwest Territories, they would be stopped there and not to go any further on this CANOL Heritage Trail?
The Member is getting into the areas of enforcement. Certainly we have to make sure that we are well within our authority to do that. As I said, the land in question is currently under the ownership of the federal government and the Sahtu aboriginal governments. This is something that we would probably have to make sure that we are well within our authority to do if we were to intercede with anybody who was enjoying their normal public use of the lands. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have a question for the Minister of Health and Social Services, the Honourable Sandy Lee. Mr. Speaker, I would like to follow up on my question that I was trying to ask last week, which was in regards to medical travel. Mr. Speaker, the issue at hand is, quite simply, this: in many cases, it is actually cheaper to rent a car than it is to be reimbursed for taxi fares in that particular case. Recognizing that sometimes that type of flexibility helps the patient, but it also helps the bottom line of the territorial government, because it is considered relatively reasonable and these rates are relatively well established.
Mr. Speaker, my question to the Minister of Health and Social Services is: would she be willing to amend the Medical Travel Policy that recognizes the ability to rent a car as a particular option rather than just having to seek reimbursement through taxi fares? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to thank the Member for giving me an opportunity to answer that again. I just want to advise the Member that the department has been reviewing this. There are a couple of complexities, but we are looking to see how this can be possible. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to know from the Minister today if she could express to me, or certainly this House, what are the complexities and what exactly are they reviewing that is holding up this possibility of an option, whereas renting a car can be seen as a reimbursable expense on medical travel. Thank you.
There are at least three things, Mr. Speaker, we are looking at. One is the liability issue. The second one is the fact that our NWT resident act says medical travel by many different ways. Some of them are covered by third-party insurance, like government employees. They are covered by a third party. NIHB receives the benefit in a different way than we have extended health benefits that go to seniors and those who make under $80,000. Those who make over $80,000 have different programs. It is often the case, whenever you look at these health issues, there are a lot more wrinkles to it. The third thing is, Mr. Speaker, it is true right now under this economy, some rental fees are cheaper than taking cabs, but that depends on the distance and size of the vehicle and everything else that is involved. Those are the things that, Mr. Speaker, we are looking at. We are looking at that. I should be able to give the Member a more definitive answer shortly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, the Minister really hit one of the areas that I am concerned about that is holding up this potential policy change. It is the liability issue, because I have done a fair bit of research on this issue. From the perspective that I have taken, as long as the GNWT is not renting the vehicle specifically, and certainly as long as the GNWT doesn’t put their name on the rental agreement, I am trying to understand what, from the Minister’s perspective, is left as a liability. From the research I have done, the government is not liable if it comes down to the person on the medical travel putting their name on as the person renting the vehicle, not the territorial government. Could the Minister clarify as to what she sees is the basis of this liability? Thank you.
It may be that that may the way it turns out, but we do need to look into it more, Mr. Speaker, because government sometimes gets to be found in a more onerous and responsible position than would a private person. If it is found that our government does fund for renting vehicles, there might be extended liability to the government, and also we understand that government faces liabilities in all kinds of things and we have waited to protect that by insuring it and it is not certain that we could cover that insurance to those who are renting vehicles for their use, but that they will be asking us for reimbursement. So there might be some element of extending the liability from the government to the private individual. It may not be the case, but we have to look into that further and that’s what we are doing. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Lee. Final supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can see a lot of thought is going into this problem and that’s certainly the direction of a solution in my vision that, you know, it does require a lot of thought. Mr. Speaker, what I’m talking about is that if somebody’s approved to go on medical travel, if that option is the one that they wish to pursue, which is rent a vehicle on their own, you know, it’s built around a flat fee that, therefore, they can’t seek reimbursement for anything else other than what they’ve done. Certainly, a waiver whereas in they acknowledge that they have to be the renter, because the issue is...I’m trying to understand; has the department done any work in comparison that puts the government in a more liable position if they’re seeking reimbursement from the taxi cab versus a car rental? From my point of view, it isn’t. It’s the exact same expense at the end of the day. Mr. Speaker, has the department compared the liability issue when someone rents a cab? Thank you.
As I indicated, liability is just one of the issues. For example, the Member just indicated we could just institute a flat fee. Well, even doing that we need to set out what is a flat fee, what is a reasonable rental fee, what vehicle are you allowed to rent.
I know that the constituent that the MLA is trying to assist, that particular assistant needs a wheelchair. So then what is the standardized flat fee for that rental vehicle? The additional issue is the fact that most of our residents may not be able to use this new provision if it was changed. What I want to say is that under NIHB and under third-party insurance and other insurance regimes right now, rental vehicles are not allowed and those are not areas that we could change. So if we were to change a little bit for a very, very small group of people and build up a whole infrastructure but it won’t really benefit others, that’s another thing. It’s hard to explain, but that’s one thing that we need to look into too. So we have a lot of work to do before we could say I will get back to the Member whether this is something that we could do right now and whether there is a benefit in that if we’re dealing with maybe up to five people who could possibly benefit. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Member for Nahendeh, Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I think it was two weeks ago I brought up an issue with the Minister Education, Culture and Employment in this House with regard to trying to get some resolution about guidelines for a young student from Trout Lake. I just want to inform the Minister, as well, that I was just informed today that the young student had to quit school. So I think that we failed this student. This student was a resident of the Northwest Territories and is a band member of the Trout Lake band. So I would just like to ask the Minister, how can we prevent a situation like this in the future? Because we stand up here, we espouse of how much we’ll bend over backwards for our students and our residents and yet we fail this young lady in this situation. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The honourable Minister of Education, Culture and Employment, Mr. Lafferty.
Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. It is unfortunate that the student had to drop out of school. Certainly our view is to have success in all students. There are certain protocols that we need to follow. One of the protocols is to work closely with district education authorities and divisional education councils as well. They’re the ones that have policies in place. If a student from the community wants to take on with home boarding, they’re the ones who made those decisions at the community level, because they’re experts at the community level. We work closely with them, as well, so we will continue to support those DEAs and DECs with the policies that they have and if there needs to be some changes, then, certainly, we are willing to work with that as well.
Absolutely, there are going to have to be some changes made. I think when I brought it up a couple weeks ago I was trying to make the case that we are responsible for aboriginal education here in the Northwest Territories, the Government of the Northwest Territories is, and it’s got to be the same, like a hunting right. Aboriginals can hunt anywhere and I believe that same right should extend to education, if anything else, and that’s the kind of flexibility that I was asking the Minister at that time, because even though the parents had left, the young lady was still here for about 11 months. I don’t know if there was a one-year guideline or whatever has to happen there. Maybe the Minister can inform me exactly what guideline or what rule was used for our government and our education system to not support her. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, I think the education council was quite open to have this student attend their school. It was just a matter of a home boarding issue.
As a parent, we’re also responsible for our kids. Like, if I send my kid to another community, I feel responsible to support my kid through the transition. I think parents also need to play a part with this. I realize that parents are working out of town, but they need to make prior arrangements, prior arrangements before the school started, because they knew that policies were in place, they needed to work with the superintendent, the education board. If there were issues, then they should have dealt with it before the school started.
Mr. Speaker, I think it’s important that we follow those terms. Our education is one of the best educations, the program that we offer. There is no denial to the student to access school. The school is still there. It’s just the home boarding aspect. We have to keep in mind that there’s a difference there. The education facility is still there and we very much support that as well. Mahsi.
Absolutely, the Minister is correct; we do have a very good education system and that’s exactly why this young lady wanted to continue the education in Fort Simpson. But then again, the rule was so inflexible. The parents left, not the student, Mr. Speaker. In fact, she was left here under the guardianship of her auntie. At the same time, education also means the provision of services to have that education, especially for people from small and remote communities such as was in this case. I would like to ask the Minister again: what exact rule was it? Was it a rule because her parents didn’t live here or was there a firm rule that there is a residency requirement for the student? Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, this is the Dehcho Divisional Education Council policy, the residence program that they have. There are certain criteria that they follow and that the parents would have to be residing in the district. So that’s the policy that they fall under and we continue to support those policies that are in place. Then again, if there needs to be some discussion on potential changes, then the MLA can certainly, myself as well can, sit down with the district education authority or the council on how it could be changed. But the final decision lies with the board. Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. Final supplementary, Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. The Minister, as the guardian of our education here in the Northwest Territories, I believe that he should take the lead role in trying to talk with our DEAs, DECs, and find some flexibility around these guidelines, because we should not be failing our students, Mr. Speaker. So I would like the Minister to commit to talk with the DEAs and DECs to see if there is a way that we can prevent this in the future, because I certainly would not like to see this happen again. Thank you.
We, too, don’t want to see this happening again in the future, but we must keep in mind that there are certain protocols and policies in place that we must follow as well. We must prepare our students to be successful in the schools. Again, parents’ responsibility, educators and also elected politicians, we do our part, and the department as well. So we’ll continue to make that happen. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Member for Kam Lake, Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to ask a few more questions about H1N1. I guess, as a parent now, I’ve got two small children and I worry. I mean, I worry for a living. I’m worried about them every day, every minute of every day. I’d like to ask the Minister what clinical experience exists currently with the Arepanrix H1N1 vaccine. What clinical experience is there out there as it pertains to children? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. The honourable Minister of Health and Social Services, Ms. Lee.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate that all parents do worry, and that it is important that residents out there, especially with young children, get the information.
Mr. Speaker, I’d like to inform the Member that since this vaccine was manufactured, clinical studies were done on young children in a number of settings including international clinical trials, and the results have shown, and it has satisfied all of the experts in the Public Health Agency of Canada, that the results are safe.
The second thing is, prior to this vaccine being made, there were some who knew about impending or possible H1N1 breakout, and all of the testing that was done with respect to the production of it, the ingredients, the quality of the ingredients, the manufacturing process, those clinical trials were done on humans as well as animals.
I’m not a scientist. I’m not medically trained. I think it would be inappropriate for us to talk in medical language, but I think it’s very appropriate for us to have questions answered about what are the experts saying. Mr. Speaker, I can assure the Member and the residents out there that this has gone through and passed the rigorous Canadian vaccination testing process that is required.
Mr. Speaker, I asked specifically about the Arepanrix H1N1 vaccine. Again, this is very confusing for people, confusing for me, confusing for the general public, because if you go to the product information leaflet on Arepanrix H1N1 right off of the Health Canada website, it says right here in healthy adults, aged 18 to 60 years and no -- I repeat no -- clinical experience yet in elderly, in children or in adolescents. What they did is use a different testing model on children and adolescents and the elderly. They didn’t use this. This vaccine has not, to my knowledge off the Health Canada website, been clinically tested in those areas. I’d like to ask the Minister: we’re administering a vaccine that has no clinical experience, Mr. Speaker, is that true? Thank you.
That is not true. In fact, even on Cross-Country Canada Checkup where there was an expert being interviewed for two hours, he made it clear that this is an evolving process. He said even 24 hours ago he could not say the relationship between flu vaccine and this new vaccine, the interaction, in a way that he could now. Things are changing. But I can assure the Member -- and I don’t know exactly what he’s looking at in the Public Health Agency of Canada -- information is changing and the latest information, I can assure the Member because I was there when Dr. Butler-Jones and Dr. Kami Kandola were reviewing the facts as they were coming about, and the clinical trials have been done on children, and they have found that they don’t need two shots for children, which they thought was originally required. They have found that one shot is enough. From my understanding, from a layperson’s point of view, less of this vaccine has proven to be effective and it has even proven to be that even for younger children it’s safe for them to use.
So, Mr. Speaker, I think it’s really important for the residents to know that all vaccines in Canada go through a rigorous testing process. This has been done. This has been done on people and children and it has been found to be safe. There is always a risk and benefit analysis being done. There’s always risk in any medication that you take, but as much as the Public Health Agency of Canada can tell us, they have done the testing. I think Members should know that information does change and the Public Health Agency is trying to get as updated information as possible. Thank you.
Thank you. Again, right off the product information leaflet, under elderly, it says no clinical data are available for Arepanrix H1N1 in this age group. Also, children aged from six months to 35 months, no clinical data available for influenza vaccines with ASO3 in this age group. So, Mr. Speaker, those are what is confusing to me and confusing to people.
I know I don’t have much time here, so I’d like to ask the Minister another question. In their H1N1 Slow the Spread information pamphlet that they have, they say the adjuvant in Canada’s H1N1 vaccine is made up of natural ingredients such as water, oil and vitamin E, which, yes, that’s in there. But, Mr. Speaker, there’s also something in there call Thimerosal, which contains mercury. Now that’s not in the information, Mr. Speaker.
Again, I think we just have to be upfront with people about what’s in the vaccine and how it’s been tested, because according to the information, like I said, right off of Health Canada’s website, this vaccine has not been clinically tested in its form that we’re administering it in. Thank you.
Thank you. It is actually untrue for the Member to say it hasn’t been tested. Now, it has been tested. Mr. Speaker, I’m asking people to go with the advice of Dr. Butler-Jones who was here on Friday and said that based on the clinical trials, that he is satisfied, that he will recommend this to the people of Canada.
Mr. Speaker, I think the H1N1 pamphlet that the Member is referring to was written quite a few weeks ago and it is true there is a little bit of adjuvant in this vaccine and it is there to boost the effectiveness of the vaccine, but I think that we should be careful that when we talk about what’s in it, you’ve got to think of all the doses, too, and how these interact. I think that only medically trained staff can answer that and if the Member wants me to look at any of the facts that he’s getting from the Public Health Agency, the website -- because I cannot verify what he has in front of him -- I’d be happy to take everything he has and have the doctors look at it and get back to the Member. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Lee. Your final supplementary, Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’d be happy to share this information, this product information leaflet on Arepanrix with the Minister so that she can see what I’m talking about.
Again, my concern, Mr. Speaker, is there shouldn’t be any confusion out there publicly. People have to have this information. I’d like to see this summarized for people before they get a shot so they can see what has actually been done with that vaccine. Again, this is a question I asked earlier, but will the Minister look at providing people who are going to get the flu shot with a list of all the ingredients that’s in the vaccine and also the information relative to the clinical testing that hasn’t been done in the children and hasn’t been done in the elderly according to this information I have, Mr. Speaker? Thank you.
The Public Health Agency of Canada has a website also about vaccine myths and it answers questions about that the vaccines don’t work, that there are many serious side effects from vaccines, that because the H1N1 flu vaccine is new it is untested and unsafe, myths that taking the regular flu shot could mean a risk of becoming very ill with H1N1, that another myth is the influenza vaccine can give you influenza, another myth is getting an influenza every year overwhelms and weakens the immune system and there is an answer to the question about the fact that the influenza vaccine contains Thimerosal, which is also known as mercury, which is harmful especially for young children, and that is found not to be the case. I would like to invite the residents to go to that. Another myth is that pregnant women should not get the influenza vaccine and the number nine myth is my child got the influenza vaccine last year so there’s no need to give it again.
So, Mr. Speaker, all of the Ministers across the country and all of the public health officers across the country are aware that there is a lot of misinformation going on and we need to make sure that we get the information out rather than half information. I think the ingredients are not the most important thing always, it’s how much is in it, because I understand on any given day all around us there’s mercury, but the dose that is in the vaccine is very, very low and it’s found not to be harmful. I need to disagree with the Member, because I keep telling the Member that this has been tested. I’m telling him it has been tested on people. So I’d like to make sure that the people know that I have information and we have information that comes out from clinical trials on people that says this vaccine is safe.
Thank you, Ms. Lee. The honourable Member for the Sahtu, Mr. Yakeleya.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to continue my questions to the Minister of ITI. Mr. Speaker, I’ve recently received some information that the Mactung, the tungsten mine at the border of the proposed CANOL Park, is going to go into some environmental hearings in terms of starting up the tungsten mine. This tungsten mine is one of the world’s largest tungsten deposits in the world and this is the start of the CANOL Heritage Trail. I want to ask the Minister what is his department doing to ensure that this piece of property, this part of the CANOL Heritage Trail or CANOL Park is protected in terms of the wishes of the Sahtu people.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya. The honourable Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Bob McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I’ve had the opportunity to visit the Mactung site this summer, along with the Member, and it was quite impressive. As the Member knows, all of the work that is being done on the Mactung site is on the Yukon side of the border. Having said that, I think there are opportunities to access that mine through the Northwest Territories, and we are well aware of the CANOL Park and we’re very prepared to work with the Sahtu to help develop that park. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
To access the Mactung Mine on the Yukon side, they have to drive from the Yukon into the Northwest Territories to get to the Mactung Mine. I wanted to ask the Minister in terms of the time frame in terms of transferring this piece of jurisdiction over to the territorial government for the Sahtu and the people of the Northwest Territories to have this park. I’m asking the Minister in terms of the time frame, because the notices have gone out to open up the Mactung Mine here. Can the Minister outline a time frame as to when this transfer will happen to see the new establishment of this park here?
The main thing that’s holding up the establishment of the park is the transfer of lands from the federal government to the territorial government. Those lands are such that a significant amount of work has to be done to clean up some of the environmental issues associated with this park. So we have been working with the Sahtu people and the federal government to clean up some of the areas. So until such time as the land is transferred, it’s very difficult for us to make the transfer or the establishment of the park proceed faster. Thank you.
