Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To my right is Ms. Lisa Cardinal, director of policy and planning and evaluation for the Department of Health and Social Services. To my left is Mr. Mark Aitken, legislative counsel with the Department of Justice.
Thank you, Ms. Lee. I’ll now open the floor to general comments on Bill 8. General comments? Detail? Is committee agreed that we proceed with detail on Bill 8?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. I’ll defer the title and begin the clause-by-clause. Is committee agreed?
Agreed.
Clause 1.
---Clauses 1 through 43 inclusive approved
Does committee agree that we have concluded detail?
Agreed.
Does committee agree that we have... Okay, Bill 8, Social Work Profession Act. Bill as a whole.
Agreed.
Does committee agree that Bill 8, Social Work Profession Act, is now ready for third reading?
---Bill 8 as a whole approved for third reading
I’d like to thank the Minister and her witnesses. Ms. Lee.
Thank you.
Sergeant-at-Arms, if I could please get you to escort the witnesses from the Chamber.
The next item on our agenda is Bill 9, An Act to Amend the Tourism Act. Is committee agreed that we move on to Bill 9?
Agreed.
Now that we’ve agreed to consider Bill 9 I will now ask the Minister responsible for the bill, the Honourable Bob McLeod, the Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment, to introduce the bill.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’m pleased to introduce Bill 9, An Act to Amend the Tourism Act. This bill addresses the proposed changes to the Tourism Act, specifically the removal of the Tourism Deposit Assurance Program.
The Tourism Deposit Assurance Program was established in the early 1990s in an effort to increase consumer confidence in Northwest Territories tourism operators following the demise of two large lodges on Great Bear Lake. No other Canadian jurisdiction offers a program like the Tourism Deposit Assurance Program.
This bill is an important one because the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment believes that the Tourism Deposit Assurance Program has not accomplished what it was designed to do. It has not increased consumer confidence in our tourism industry and the Tourism Deposit Assurance Program ultimately drains valuable resources from programs designed to develop our tourism industry development. The industry is much better served by encouraging tourism operators to adopt payment practices that protect their clients, such as credit card payments.
The removal of the Tourism Deposit Assurance Program from the Tourism Act is consistent with direction we have received from industry partners such as Northwest Territories Tourism. In June 2010 the chair of the Northwest Territories Tourism advised Industry, Tourism and Investment that its board had passed a motion recommending that the department eliminate the program from its legislation.
Removing the Tourism Deposit Assurance Program from the Tourism Act is also consistent with the recommendations of the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Infrastructure, which recommended that the Tourism Deposit Assurance Program be cancelled in March 2010.
Industry, Tourism and Investment and the Government of the Northwest Territories remains committed to providing a diversified economy that provides all communities and regions with opportunities and choices. It is our view that removing the Tourism Deposit Assurance Program from the Tourism Act and focusing our resources on programs and services that assist the development of our tourism industry will help us meet this important objective.
I want to thank the committee for its input into the review of the proposed changes to the Tourism Act. I would now be happy to answer any questions you might have about this issue.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. I would now like to ask the chairperson for the Standing Committee on Economic Development and Infrastructure, which reviewed this bill, to make comments. Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Bill 9, An Act to Amend the Tourism Act, revokes Section 13 and 14 of the Tourism Act that established the Tourism Deposit Assurance Program effective November 15, 2010.
The Standing Committee on Economic Development and Infrastructure conducted a public hearing on Bill 9 on September 27, 2010, in Yellowknife. The committee heard concerns and opinions from many outfitters as well as from representatives from NWT Tourism. The committee took everything it heard, both written and in person submissions, under advisement in its consideration of this bill. The committee also held a public clause-by-clause review of Bill 9 on October 13, 2010. Following the committee’s review, a motion was carried to report Bill 9 to the Legislative Assembly as ready for consideration in Committee of the Whole.
This concludes the committee’s opening comments on Bill 9. Individual members may have additional questions or comments as we proceed.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. On that, I would ask the Minister responsible for the bill if he would like to bring some witnesses into the House. Mr. McLeod.
Yes, I would, Mr. Chairman.
Is committee agreed?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. I will now ask the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort the witnesses into the Chamber.
Mr. McLeod, can I please get you to introduce your witnesses for the record?
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On my right I have Doug Doan, assistant deputy minister with the department. On my left I have Mark Aitken, legal counsel.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. We’ll now open the floor to general comments on Bill 9. Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. With regard to this bill, I was probably the lone wolf in the wilderness on this one because I was yee-yawing back and forth. At the end of the day the original intent of the bill that was brought in in the early 1990s was in regard to the closure of two lodges on Great Bear Lake and some means of protection for the consumer. I think there’s still that type of need in the Northwest Territories from what we’re seeing with the big game outfitters in the area of caribou hunts and polar bears. I think that we have to be cognizant of the fact that we are unique in our tourism ventures and we have some unique challenges in the Northwest Territories such as isolation, transportation, logistical challenges getting people in and out of the lodges, and our distance from southern urban centres.
I just wanted to state that as a member of the committee I was the only one who sort of opposed the bill, but for the sake of progress I will not respond to the bill or vote on it. I want to put that on the public record, because I do have concerns of not having it there to protect the consumer in an industry that basically has had to bring in legislation because of what happened in two lodges on Great Bear Lake. We are not immune to that today. We’ve talked to the tourism industry. We’ve talked to the lodge owners, and even they weren’t all unanimously on side when it came to this issue before committee. Again, I’d like to leave it at that and just like to state for the record where I stand on this. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr, Krutko. That’s more of a comment, but would the Minister like to respond?
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Our tourism industry has indicated they have a clear preference for departmental resources to be used to support operators with workshops, training and product development. Also, the protection of client deposits is better done through the use of credit cards.
In our opinion, the Tourist Deposit Assurance Program was created to boost confidence in the tourism industry but in actuality we feel that the program has had the opposite effect, because it shows that the government does not have confidence in the NWT tourism industry because they’re assuming that this industry will fail. In our view, that’s why we feel it should be changed. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. Next on my list is Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to just comment briefly on this. I want to start off by thanking the NWT Tourism and the board. They were in favour of Bill 9 and the deletion of the Tourist Deposit Assurance Program.
Given what’s happened to the barren-ground caribou outfitters in the Northwest Territories, I think the government’s got some bigger issues on its plate that it’s going to have to deal with. In the money that is being thrown at this assurance program, and it’s over $300,000, Mr. Chairman, that’s money that could be better spent looking at programming and ways to keep what operators that we have left in some kind of existence until caribou numbers come back or until we can actually count the caribou correctly in a two or three-year period where we know exactly how many caribou are out there. I think that work is being done. It’s going to continue to be done and, hopefully, the numbers aren’t as bad as they say they are and the industry will rebound, because it is a multi-million industry here in the Northwest Territories. We have to find a way to get our operators through these rough times.
Again, I support the bill. Like I said, this is going to happen, Bill 9 is going to happen, but we need to come up with a plan to replace, with that money, replace some support and some help to the outfitting industry here in the Northwest Territories, because they’ve been hit right between the eyes with the crash in the caribou numbers. We’ve got to do something about that, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Once again, more of a comment, but I will go to Minister McLeod for a response.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. In the past few years we recognized that there was starting to be a shift in tourism products so we undertook some research to determine where the future interests would lie and it was indicating there was a preference towards ecotourism and adventure tourism. We instituted the Tourism Diversification and Marketing Program which provided funding so that existing operators could look at developing new products. For the Barren Ground outfitters and the polar bear outfitters, they indicated that they needed to focus more on the marketing and their own specific sectors, so the government provided sports hunter outfitter marketing assistance. It started out at $150,000 a year, now this year we have $300,000 for the caribou and $300,000 for the polar bear. So that’s how we’re assisting them and we expect that for the future years there has been input into our business plan. Thank you.
I thank the Minister for that. Again, I think, given the fact that barren-ground caribou outfitting in the Northwest Territories is a multi-million dollar industry and provided a lot of spin-off business in our Territory -- hotels, taxis, restaurants, things like that -- I think the government… And I appreciate the efforts that the government has put into the Tourism Diversification Marketing Program that they’ve got but, Mr. Chairman, it falls short of what is really needed. I think what we need to do as a government is find a way to bridge that gap, whether it’s a year, two years, three years, four years, who knows how long it’s going to take for the caribou numbers to come back.
But one thing is for certain, Mr. Chairman, we had an industry last year and we don’t have one now. We have to ensure that it has the ability, when those numbers come back, to thrive again and to get right back into doing what they were doing before the caribou numbers crashed.
Again, I think we have to try to bridge that gap and the pain that our barren-ground caribou outfitting industry is experiencing. What shape or form that takes is yet to be determined, but we have to start working on that, Mr. Chairman, otherwise when the caribou numbers do come back, we’re not going to have an industry and that would be a shame.
As I said, we are spending money on sports hunt outfitter marketing programs for both the caribou and the polar bears. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. Next on my list is Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I do support Bill 9. I came to that support through the process that’s been outlined and the participation of many. I want to express appreciation to those who did contribute in the process and the considerable input we had, especially from small businesses and entrepreneurs, many of whom are currently very much struggling now in the face of our low caribou populations.
I just want to point out or comment or observe that our local resident businesses have, on the whole, been extremely responsible and have not been, sort of, the source of the angst that has generated this bill, and I want to express appreciation to them for that leadership. I know they have various opinions on this bill and I’ve appreciated that input, as I’ve said.
I want to observe again that comments were made encouraging the Minister to find other ways to show his confidence in the industry, and the Minister has indicated that he will do that and assist them in carrying on good business practices. I think we would like to, in particular, again, support our local resident businesses and as long as we register exceptions to free trade agreements that, of course, cause us to lose the ability to prefer our local businesses, we’ll be able to do that.
One question for the Minister: The Minister has mentioned a couple times that businesses can protect their clients through credit card payments. I’m sure many already use credit card payments, but I’m wondering if the Minister could say how that works and what the limitations are of using credit card payments and how that might protect their clients. I’d be interested in those perspectives. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Doan.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The use of credit cards is practiced by many in the industry already and essentially through the use of an appropriate credit card, not every single credit card company offers this, but many of the credit card companies offer an insurance program so that in the event that your payment is made by credit card and the product or service for which you have paid was not made, you can make a claim on the credit card company and they will undertake an investigation and they will repay any deposits that have been paid for which a product or service was not provided. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Are there any cases where outfitters have taken payments that credit cards would not be able to provide that protection? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. As was mentioned at hearings, at least one outfitter indicated that where deposits had been taken that would span several years, there would be the possibility of an issue there. But we have indicated that if they could file before November 1st, we will deal with all of the claims in one fashion or another. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for those remarks. I understand that and I guess I would just ask the Minister to consider a little research in this area and provide that research results to our businesses, our tourism operators, so they are operating with full information there. Thank you.
That will be our intention and we will do that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Minister. I have no other Members on my list. Is committee agreed that there are no further general comments?
Agreed
Is committee agreed that we proceed with the clause-by-clause review of Bill 9?
Agreed.
Okay. We will defer the title and go straight to the individual clauses. Clause 1.
---Clauses 1 through 5 inclusive approved
Bill as a whole?
