Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Next on the list I have the chair of the standing committee, Mr. Beaulieu.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, felt it was quite an experience to review the act because of the nature of the work that we did as a committee to go through and review the act and talk to the communities about how the act has impacted on the lives of some of the community members that came out and spoke at our meetings. I agree with the comments made by the two previous committee members and the people that supported us in our review.
Also, in addition to what they said, I’d like to thank the people that we worked with in Alberta. It was a good way to start to see what works down there. With the government down there, it seems like they had the masses in order and the money to be able to do a lot of things that we in the NWT probably couldn’t afford to do, but it was something that maybe we could look at scaling down some of what they do while capturing some of their ideas and making them work for the Territories.
Throughout all our meetings, we met with a lot of foster parents. I thought that there were many, many good foster parents who had all kinds of stories and were very hardworking and dedicated people supporting some of the foster children that they were supporting. I thought that was important.
I thought that one of the key things was in our review, was to try to find a way to make the social workers do social work rather than just child protection work. Social workers were so busy in the child protection area, apprehensions, court and so on, that they were not able to do the social work that is required of them to go into the homes and work on prevention. They’re so busy trying to deal with the issues at hand that it was hard for them to free themselves up to do social work, working with the families and so on, and do prevention.
I guess growing up in the Territories I have a lot of friends that were foster children and I know a lot of people in the Territories that were taken away from their homes at a very young age, and it’s not a high percentage of their people that turned their lives completely around to live in society today and function and so on; whereas, a lot of these foster kids have been jumping from foster home to foster home to foster home to residential school back to foster home and stuff. I mean, many of the kids were in residential school and at the end of the year had nowhere to go. When the school year ended they didn’t have a home to go back to for a couple of months until the next school year started and so on. We don’t want to see that type of thing prevail; some of the stuff I talked about earlier in Alberta where they had supported the kids that went to school throughout the summer and so on.
Another thing that I found that was a bit of a dilemma, I think, for families up here was a little bit of what Mr. Abernethy touched on, and that was there’s a fine line between the grandparents being paid weekend babysitters and foster care. Somehow throughout this act, we had to try to find a way where if the children are in jeopardy in any way whatsoever, that the social worker is in there working with the family, with the grandparents and so on and placing those kids in those homes and being supported by the department and by the whole foster parent program.
They have issues where if the foster kids are taken by the social worker and placed, then there’s compensation paid to the placement area where the kids are put or the foster parents. Yet the grandparents don’t want to take that risk, or families don’t want to take that risk so they intervene before the social worker intervenes and they end up protecting the child from apprehension, but the end result is that they don’t receive any financial support. That is one of the key items I’m hoping that can be resolved through this review, that when the grandparents are taking the kids and it is a legitimate issue where it’s not just because the parents are having an issue for the weekend or having an issue for a week or so, that the kids end up in the grandparents’ home -- you know, it’s legitimate and it’s necessary – and that’s where I feel that the social worker can go in and work with the families to support those family members.
I thought that was something that would free up a lot of time for the social workers to do other work, going back to that family and doing some social work and dealing with some of the issues and so on.
I guess to kind of close the loop on this, I thought that some of the access to treatment was a bit of an issue. I think that only one treatment facility is available in the Territories and that most of the communities we talked to felt that treatment right there in their hometown on the land, in cultural camps and so on was the way to go; by treating the whole family. Just sending one member to a treatment facility somewhere in the South or in Hay River, one member at a time, to try to deal with any addiction issues that may be causing issues with child care was not working. I think that this government should support the addictions counselling and addictions treatment closer to home.
That is some of what we’ve made recommendations on and some of the stuff that I felt was the big key items in our report that would improve the situation for our children and families in the NWT. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. Beaulieu. Next on the list I have Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am happy to provide some comments on the work that the Social Programs committee did with regard to reviewing the Child and Family Services Act. The most significant for me was that they came over to the community of Fort Liard as well as Fort Simpson. The residents were really pleased to see committee in their communities and they did share many of their concerns. Once we got the debate and the discussion going and the reason why committee was there, people began to understand and identify some of the core issues that they had every time they experienced apprehensions and the authority that the act provides over children in our smaller communities, and a lot of them are certainly aboriginal, Mr. Chairman.
What a lot of people were saying was that aboriginal culture and language has to be taken into consideration if and when we’re going to make changes to the act. The act certainly recognizes custom adoption, but when it comes to the opposite end like apprehensions or grandparents wanting to get involved, they can, they’re able to take care of their grandchildren, but legally that’s like an apprehension and there’s no authority for them to do it. But all they want to do is to take the child away from a violent situation. Well, it doesn’t even have to be violent, just basically drinking in the house, and they want to care for that child for the weekend, but the law just doesn’t provide for that. I think some of the people in Fort Simpson and Fort Liard raised that issue and I certainly support that.
As well, the review, and I’m sure committee heard, it’s actually in the report too just talking about the residential school system. Recently it opened up that whole debate about the residential school system and the act kind of brings back the direct experiences that ourselves had experienced at our age and our parents and the parents before them, because the residential school system has been in the North almost two or three generations, Mr. Chairman.
I think the key thing is that we are very happy that the act is being reviewed and very happy that committee came out to communities and wanted input. And they got input, especially in my riding to say, okay, you know we actually have a chance here to make some positive changes that reflect our cultural identity, that reflect some of the realities of our needs.
I think a few Members already commended the front-line workers and I would certainly like to do the same, because they are there day in and day out. I think the recommendations speak about providing more support and more training, and I certainly support that as well. Having knowledgeable front-line workers in the organization certainly helps with smooth transitions, especially because there are cases where constituents have come to me and they’re saying the law is overbearing, you know, I really feel that my rights have been violated.
However, the literal translation of the act does say that apprehensions have to happen and it’s kind of like a judgment call. At the same time there are alternatives out there in working with the community, knowing that we’ve got caring grandparents out there that you can call and mediate, and having people in our justice system because of the act when something could have been mitigated or else finding alternative solutions I think would help our system. But we’ve just got to work with the act and try and write these into the act at the time we’re going to make changes, Mr. Chair. So just a few comments.
Once again, seeing the amount of work that committee put into it, pleased to see the healthy communities. Once again, a pat on the back to our front-line workers who are out there doing this every day. I certainly, as an MLA and along with the other committee members, commend them for the work that they’re doing. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. Next on my list is Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I’m really pleased to be able to make some remarks with regard to the Child and Family Services Act Review committee report. It was very exciting to me to be part of this process and I think that the end result is a very valid one and I think it’s an excellent, excellent result.
It was a year, pretty much, from start to finish for the motion to get through the House until we submitted the report. It was almost exactly a year and it was an exhaustive process, it was a very comprehensive process and I think the end result shows that it was well worth the efforts on behalf of everybody involved.
I echo the comments that have already been made by committee members to thank the people who had a hand in assisting us with the report, making all our travel arrangements, making our room and our meeting arrangements, helping us within the communities, setting up meetings for us within the communities. The staff certainly did a huge amount of work relative to the report. Last, but not least, the people who did come to all of our meetings, all of our focus groups who provided us with their input. It was extremely valuable.
My belief, and I think it was pretty much confirmed by the people that we met with, is that the act itself is pretty good. There are not a lot of major changes required to the act, but there are a fair number of changes that are required in the implementation of the act and that, from what we heard from the people that we met with, is basically the problem. The implementation of the act needs fixing.
In particular what struck me, and I have to say it’s interesting that I can listen to other members of the committee and their comments on the report and we all have a different approach, each one of us, to how we are commenting on this report and it’s wonderful that we all heard the same thing. We went to the same places, we worked on the same project, but we obviously are coming at it from different perspectives and that’s a very good thing. What struck me particularly from I would say every one of our meetings and with stakeholders and with individuals in communities, and also in our discussions in committee, what struck me probably the most is the need that was expressed to keep children at home either with their parents or with an extended family member. Removing the kids from the community was seen as an absolute huge difficulty and it was one thing which I would say, if anything comes out of this report, we need to make huge efforts to keep kids within the community. The recommendations from the report reflect the need to keep children within their family, within their home, within their community.
The thing that is necessary, though, if we do that, if we keep the children in the community, we have to then provide adequate supports to either the parents, the child and family services committee within the communities, to extended family members if they’re caring for the kids. There is a lack of supports within the communities that does not allow for adequate implementation of the act and it creates a lot of problems. If we remove a child from the parents and require the parents to undergo some sort of counselling, is that counselling available within that community? In most cases no. That’s the sort of thing that we have to do. If we’re going to provide supports, we need to make sure if we’re going to keep kids at home and in the community we then have to provide supports to the parents and the families in the community.
We also heard a great deal about a very large hole in the act, and that’s the lack of services for children between ages 16 and 18. That gap was identified a number of times. I think it’s one that was evident before we ever started this review, but it’s one that absolutely must be filled. We have any number of children who are left without any kind of services because they happen to be between the ages of 16 and 18.
The report has many recommendations which are directed towards the administration of the act, basically what’s being done at the department level and by the GNWT personnel. Like my colleagues, in terms of front-line staff, I absolutely wish to commend the work that they do. It is a very difficult job, it’s certainly not one that I could do and I’m grateful that there are people out there that can do jobs that I don’t feel I can do, and this is one of them. They do a great job, but they don’t necessarily have the services and the policies that allow them to do the job that the communities want them to do. So, many of the recommendations relative to administration of the act are geared to try and make the job of a social worker easier, more efficient and that then makes less apprehensions and makes it less difficult on families.
It’s been mentioned already, but I want to also say that the recommendations emphasize that there’s changes needed in the kinds of measures that we use to deliver social services, and particularly in light of child apprehensions. We tend to, at the moment, work against families, and the underlying principle has to be to work with families, not against them. So the recommendations talk about advocacy, they talk about collaborative processes and it’s a different way of thinking. There’s not a lot of basic structural change required, but it’s a different way of thinking and instead of being adversarial -- I think that word was mentioned already -- if we don’t start from an adversarial position, we start from a collaborative position. If we can do that, it’s going to solve the problem before it gets to be a bigger problem or before it gets to court.
We certainly heard a great deal about child and family services committees, mostly that people didn’t know that they had the opportunity to establish them. When we mentioned them, I would say, to a community, they believed that that was the right way to go. In my mind, establishing those committees is going to be key to putting into place the recommendations that we have made in the report. I firmly believe that we need to give power to the communities, to the people in the communities. They know best what works for their people in the community and for their community as a whole. At the moment we’re not doing that. We say that we’re listening to them, but I don’t believe we really are. If we can give that sort of power and interaction with people and families to members of a community, I think it’s certainly going to improve, it’s going to reduce the number of child apprehensions, I believe that absolutely, and it will solve problems before they become a problem, which, again, is going to reduce apprehensions. The other thing that these committees can do is they can require, they can advocate, they can get the supports that are so necessary in the community to help families.
In conclusion, I would like to say that it could be said that this report was a labour of love on behalf of the committee members. We were all extremely, I would think, I shouldn’t speak for my other committee members, but I believe that we certainly were committed to this work and we felt it was very important. I think we also believe that it was well worth the effort and that the product that resulted was certainly a good one.
I have heard from committee members today and Mr. Menicoche, I appreciate his comments, but I really look forward to hearing from other Members of the House on their comments, from other Members outside of the committee, their view of this report and its recommendations. There’s a number of recommendations that were made not just to the Department of Health and Social Services but a number of other government departments and we spent a lot of time discussing whether or not we should put those in and felt very strongly that the recommendations affected other departments but it, therefore, needed to be included because they have an impact on child and family services.
It is a great report. I encourage other Members to give comments, I encourage the public to give us comments on this report. I think we would like to hear whatever comments are out there, good, better or indifferent. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you Ms. Bisaro. Next on my list is Mr. Krutko.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Before I begin I would like to thank my colleagues on the Social Programs committee, the research staff of the Legislative Assembly, the individual professional members we had travelling with us, the members from the Department of Health and Social Services who did travel along with us, and last of all a big thank you to those people who did come forward to make their presentations.
At times it was tough for the individuals, but even tough for ourselves, having to sit there and listen to some of the experiences these individuals had with the area of child apprehension or child custody issues and the effects it has had on especially the mothers and the loss of their children and, more importantly, the loss of the culture and values because of some of their experiences.
Mr. Chairman, I think this is something that, one of the things that as a Member who served here for some four terms, probably one of the higher achievements that I was able to take part of knowing that when this legislation first came forward in the 13th Assembly, the intention back then was to deal with exactly what we have been confronted with today and the whole notion at that time was because we were one Territory, we had some 58 communities that we represented, more importantly, that we had basically a majority of aboriginal Members in this House which basically were sold on the idea of community involvement and responsibilities by way of establishing a child and family services committee in all of our communities and allow the community input into the process and be able to resolve those issues at the community level, more importantly, find community solutions to these social and challenges that we face in a lot of our communities, more importantly, the economic and social conditions that most communities have to struggle with, regardless if it’s employment, high unemployment, and more importantly, the lack of programs and services. I think that we do have to take a close look at how these recommendations were formatted, but more importantly, for the Department of Health and Social Services to assist them in ensuring that when they implement these recommendations that they are doable, that they are basically achievable.
There is going to be some financial expenditures to implementing this, but what is the cost of not doing it, realizing we already spend in the range of $12 million and we have some 600 children in care in our system in one way or the other. I think we have to be able to realize what effect this has had on the children that find themselves in the system by way of having to be put in the foster care programs, regardless of their placement, regardless of where they are placed.
I think it is important to realize that this legislation, since it came into effect in 1995, that a review has taken place and that the numbers have drastically increased over the period of this program and the number of children that are receiving services in this care is well over a thousand. One of the gaps that we definitely identified is those children between the age of 16 to 18 finding themselves in a grey area of who really has responsibility for those children and exactly how do we work with those children and assist those children that may not find themselves back with their parents and might find themselves in a different community or also ensuring that they do have the means that they can take care of themselves or be able to have access to services that will assist them and be able to take care of themselves. Again, that is something that I feel we have touched on. I think that we have to show the rest of Canada that we are open to suggestions, recommendations, and realize that we are not alone in this problem. It is a national problem.
There are more children in foster care in Canada today than there were children in care in the residential schools. That is the scary phenomena that we face as Canadians, but more importantly, here in the Northwest Territories. One thing people don’t realize is there is a direct correlation between foster care, residential school and exactly the history that a lot of these children are talking about. You are talking families that go back decades in regards to being put in a type of care. In the region I represent, in the community of Fort McPherson, the first Indian residential school was opened in 1898. That is over 110 years ago. Also, in other communities, in regards to Fort Providence it was 1867, and yet we hear stories from our parents, our grandparents and now we are going to hear it from our children and our grandchildren of this phenomena that we talk about in regards to the best interests of the child. At the experience we face today in regards to the residential school phenomena, that effect does not go away simply from one generation to the next, to the next. Again, the only way we will break that cycle is we have to do things differently than we have done in the past, find solutions to work with the people, the families, the children, the communities to find workable solutions to our problems.
I would also like to correlate one of the things that doesn’t really spell out in the agreement, and I know a couple of my colleagues touched on it, is the area of poverty. A lot of these families are living well below the poverty line in Canada or, for that matter, looking at it as a third world country. Statistics have shown us that the majority of aboriginal people in the Northwest Territories have an income well below $18,000 per year and yet the majority of the other population, the non-aboriginal population, is $54,000. Even that in regards to our communities, we have large pockets of individuals that I have mentioned in regards to statistics that show that almost 45 percent of our people in the communities that I represent of Aklavik and in Fort McPherson, which is basically 43 percent make less than $30,000 a year. That is over half of our households in our communities. If the people are struggling just to make ends meet and struggling to provide for their children, their family and try to keep a roof over their head with that type of income, we have to do a better job of supporting the systems that we have and making sure they are really assisting those families, children and, more importantly, the communities to find ways of improving the quality of life for those children in our communities, the family members who are basically struggling, more importantly, find community solutions to our problems.
Again, in the area of child and family services, one of the areas I know a lot of my colleagues touched on is the area of child and family services committees in communities. Fort McPherson is one of the areas that I have been pushing for the last number of years to take advantage of that section of the legislation, but again it was a struggle to where we are today to realizing that there is a cost associated with putting these committees, yes, but what is the cost of not allowing or involving our communities and community members to assist us in making those tough decisions, finding solutions at the community level and ensuring that the community is finding solutions to their problems and not to leave that decision to someone else in a faraway office or in a different setting outside the home communities. Let’s not continue to repeat the cycle of knowing what’s best, but find solutions to ensuring that our children are protected and their best interest are met.
In closing I’d like to offer up that I think it is important that all Members of this House speak on this issue, regardless whether it’s Cabinet Ministers or Regular Members. I think this issue is essential to the well-being of the North as a whole.
Thank you, Mr. Krutko. General comments. Ms. Lee.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to acknowledge the hard work of the members of the Standing Committee on Social Programs and congratulate them on the undertaking of this very important task.
The review of the Child and Family Services Act was timely and has offered an opportunity for the Department of Health and Social Services to hear feedback from the most important source of information: the families and communities directly affected by the legislation.
The department will undertake a detailed review of the report and recommendations and develop a comprehensive response. Many recommendations will require the input and engagement of other departments and I will work closely with my colleagues to ensure a coordinated response across the department.
I have also instructed my deputy minister to work with other departments affected by these recommendations to develop interdepartmental responses as some recommendations are cross-government. I will commit to providing an overall response within 120 days.
From a preliminary review, some of the recommendations will require an investment. Many recommendations were policy related and can be addressed without going back to alter the act. A few recommendations will require a legal review. Some recommendations will commit future governments.
I can say that the department is very excited by the prospect of improving services for children and families and is prepared to make the most of this opportunity.
I’d like to conclude by thanking all of the numerous people who shared their stories and experiences and were involved with this review. Although there is much work ahead of us, the momentum is in place to make significant and valuable changes to the way we deliver child and family services across the Territory.
Thank you, Ms. Lee. General comments. Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I’ve got a few comments I’d like to make on the report. First off I’d like to thank yourself, Mr. Abernethy, and Mr. Beaulieu and the rest of the Social Programs committee for embarking on this ambitious piece of work. It took you over a year and I know many mornings you’d be here and on weekends as well, and I know the committee put a lot of time and effort and understanding into the issues surrounding the review of the Child and Family Services Act. It’s because of that work and commitment that I think we have a report before us that is one that speaks to a variety of issues.
The big one for me, and I’ve heard this from constituents, is that gap. We have to try to address the gap for youth between the ages of 16 and 19. I think that’s a big part of it. They’re too old for foster care, too young to receive income support. That’s a gap I think we need to address. Hopefully this leads us down that road.
I was listening to some of my colleagues speak earlier. The impact, the sheer volume and impact that alcohol, drugs and the abuse of those substances have on our communities, on our families, is devastating. I think we really need to, as a government, get to the root cause of family breakup and what’s causing things to go astray. I know we’re working towards that. We’re spending a lot of money in that area. The social indicators aren’t getting any better and I think we need to do a rethink on how we’re approaching things, especially on the prevention side.
I again appreciate all the time and effort that’s gone into the report. Hopefully we can find a way forward.
The other thing too, while I’ve got the floor, that I wanted to mention, was when families break up and the impact that has, it’s a very tumultuous time in a family’s life when the families do break up, the impact on the children who are involved in that breakup have. I’ve always been a big supporter of equal shared parenting in a way that both parents can fit into the lives of children. That’s something that I fully support too. The more we can get in and mediate circumstances like that, the better as well. Keep family issues and family law out of the court system as much as possible. That’s a good thing. We would be doing families a valuable service if we could do that; also benefitting the children that are involved in those family breakups as well.
With that, I do hope this is a tool that can be used effectively as we move forward. Once again, thank you and thanks to the Social Programs committee and to the Minister and her staff, and everybody else who was involved in the foundation of getting this report before us today.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. General comments. Mr. Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move to report progress.
---Carried
I will now rise and report progress.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Your committee has been considering Committee Report 3-16(5), Standing Committee on Social Programs Report on the Review of the Child and Family Services Act, and would like to report progress. I move that the report of Committee of the Whole be concurred with.
Thank you, Mr. Abernethy. A motion is on the floor. Do we have a seconder? The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.
---Carried
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Monfwi, that Bill 8, Social Work Profession Act, be read for the third time.
Bill 8 has had third reading.
---Carried
The honourable Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Bob McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, that Bill 9, An Act to Amend the Tourism Act, be read for the third time.
Bill 9 has had third reading.
---Carried
Mr. Speaker, there will be a meeting of the Economic Development and Infrastructure committee at adjournment today.
Orders Of The Day For Thursday, October 28, 2010, At 1:30 p.m.:
Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until Thursday, October 28, 2010, at 1:30 p.m.
---ADJOURNMENT
The House adjourned at 5:07 p.m.
