Clearly a one-size policy doesn’t fit anybody across the North. That approach certainly hasn’t addressed the adequacy issue. As I said in my Member’s statement, 928 people in Yellowknife alone, that’s 928 families alone are paying over 30 percent of their gross income on fixed expenses. I still haven’t heard how the Minister is addressing the affordability challenges in Yellowknife.
I’m not sure if the Member is referencing 930 that are paying 30 percent in market housing or public housing. I don’t believe we have that many public housing units in Yellowknife. Are we talking homeownership? Private homes financed through the bank? If the Member would clarify his question, I’d be prepared to give him an answer.
For clarification, I was referring to the Housing Needs Survey.
The Housing Needs Survey encompasses all aspects of housing in each community. Obviously, Yellowknife has an advantage over some of the other communities where the corporation is able to get into rent supp agreements with a lot of private landlords. Obviously, if there is a public housing shortage in Yellowknife, it is one that as a corporation we’ll have to address and see about getting public housing units into the capital. As well as looking across the Northwest Territories trying to get public housing into a lot of the other communities, because if you look at it percentage-wise, their needs are probably a lot higher than Yellowknife. Numbers-wise, Yellowknife is going to have the higher number.
I thank the Minister and I will agree that the statistics speak for themselves. It’s a matter of how you put them in order. With 928 households through the housing survey still in need -- and he may want to suggest they have other options -- but with almost a zero percent vacancy rate in Yellowknife, options are few and far between. If the Minister is interested in advice -- and he’s gone through several Members today and it sounds like he’s taking advice today -- I would highlight the fact that one multi-family unit being built in Yellowknife does not address the affordability and suitability issue.
Has the Minister considered or entertained the concept of rent supps which would directly go to households in need? As I pointed out, we have over 900 people who are paying over 30 percent of their gross income on fixed expenses. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, I’d have to check on the numbers. As far as I know, in the past few years Yellowknife has been fortunate to get a few more public housing units. As far as rent supps go, us subsidizing people to stay in private accommodation, when I speak of the rent supps, I’m talking about the ones that are rented to the LHOs and they administer them. As far as the rent supps go, I mean, 932, if we were to assist a portion of those, I mean, this would be a huge investment on the part of the NWT Housing Corporation. It’s something that we’d have to look at very carefully, because we don’t want to take away from the rest of the Territories. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Your final, short supplementary, Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. With capital money we’re investing in this capital budget, I think the money could go a lot further on a short-term investment immediately helping some of those 928 families in need. May I remind the Minister that we have approximately 289 units in public housing and the fact is that even if we bring in through a retrofit process of 25 retrofits this capital budget, it’s just a shell game, because you’re working on fixing 25 but you have to take 25 off the market. So you really haven’t changed the adequacy and affordability issue.
Mr. Speaker, that said, would the Minister commit to this House that he will re-evaluate those capital dollars so that money can be redirected to rent supps on a short-term basis, as I said earlier, that will immediately help people? Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, we’ve got 293 public housing units in Yellowknife, we’ve got 105 homeownership units and we have about 360 third-party projects. So to me that shows that the Housing Corporation is making a significant investment in the capital. And just to clarify, if we’re fixing up 25 units, we don’t have to take 25 units out of stock. It’s just the Public Housing Replacement Program. If we’re replacing public housing units, then we have to look at ways of taking some units off the backend because of declining funding. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Nunakput, Mr. Jacobson.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. How does the Housing Corporation decide, Mr. Speaker, on what the economic rent should be in each of our communities? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. The honourable Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, Mr. Robert McLeod.
Perhaps I can get one of our more experienced managers to explain that from up there. Maximum rent is looking at the cost to operate the unit in the community and you’re looking at the water and the power and all other utilities. So it’s actually the cost of operating that unit in the community. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, when the Housing Corporation does its Housing Needs Survey, affordability is always a big problem across the Northwest Territories. Even here in Yellowknife. Mr. Speaker, I assume the Minister agrees that $3,000 a month for a three-bedroom unit is not affordable, unless you’re making a lot more money than most people in our small communities. So how is affordability taken into account in the economic rent? How is it set for this house in Sachs Harbour?
Well, it would be set in Sachs Harbour as it would be set in all other communities. Obviously, the cost of operating a unit in Sachs Harbour is going to be a lot more than it is for a community in the South Slave. That’s where they would set the rate.
I have to add that there are very few tenants across the Northwest Territories that actually pay the maximum rent. I think we may have 12 or 13 people across the Northwest Territories. The last time I heard it was 19, but it may have gone down since then. Those are the people that we’re trying to graduate out of public housing and into homeownership. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, I’d like to know, the problems that have caused the rental arrears growing across the Territory, what happens to families who find themselves way behind on paying their rent and the situation of the Housing Corporation, a big problem in arrears with the Housing Corporation and being evicted. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, the process of being evicted is a very long process. It’s not one where the LHO gets to work and decides they’re going to evict somebody today. They’re given many opportunities to try, especially with the arrears, they’re given many opportunities to try and deal with the arrears. Sometimes all the LHOs ask is that you come in and work out a repayment plan and then you get to keep the unit. A lot of tenants have gone to the boards, appealed to the boards and they’ve been given a kind of last chance, last chance. It’s an awfully long process before they get to the actual eviction. They give out termination notices. Sometimes those are just designed to get the tenants’ attention and make them realize that they need to start dealing with some of the problems, especially the arrears problems that they’re facing. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Your final, short supplementary, Mr. Jacobson.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the Minister adjust the economic rent system so that the rental public housing is affordable so people can go find some work? Mr. Speaker, I also heard the Minister earlier today speaking about the Beaufort-Delta and the economic rent scale in regard to the pilot project. If the Beaufort-Delta housing would be able to get on a pilot project for rental, the calculations for the economic rent, to drop that rent scale down, is it possible to do a pilot project like the Beaufort-Delta, in my communities that I represent? Is it possible? Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, the Member is referring to the regional rates that I was referring to earlier. This is something that we are just in the process of considering right now. It’s something that we have to explore a little further. I mean, we’ve heard the argument on the difference in the rental from one small community to one that’s 20 minutes away. As far as using the Beaufort-Delta as a pilot project, once we decide if this is one that’s worth pursuing, then maybe we have to look at something like that, because the rental rates in the Beaufort-Delta are a lot more inconsistent and a lot higher than they are in the southern part of the Territories. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. The honourable Member for Frame Lake, Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Not surprisingly, my questions are for the Minister responsible for the Housing Corporation, and you can let the Minister know that he’s almost done.
I mentioned in my Member’s statement the Auditor General’s report, and in particular, item number 59 from that report is a recommendation that states that the corporation should finalize its strategic plan as soon as possible. It goes on to say that part of the plan should be: “incorporate all the various elements of housing into a comprehensive northern Housing Strategy.” The management’s response did not indicate that a strategy was forthcoming, so I have a few questions for the Minister.
I would like to know if the NWT Housing Corporation is acting on the Auditor General’s recommendation and, if so, what is the status of the strategy for the NWT Housing Corporation? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. The honourable Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, Mr. Robert McLeod.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This would fit into the overall Shelter Policy we’re developing right now and this would look at all aspects of delivery of housing across the Northwest Territories. The plan is to develop a policy in the next fiscal year. We see this as a bit of a way forward document to deal with a lot of the issues regarding housing in the Northwest Territories.
Thanks to the Minister. The Minister mentions the Shelter Policy that’s being developed. I also mentioned in my statement that there were two commitments from the Minister in the last eight months or so. One was to look at rent scales and one was to look at programs. I don’t hear in the answer today, and I didn’t hear in the answers from previous Hansard, that the Housing Corporation is going to look at everything with the Housing Corporation, polices, procedures, guidelines, everything that affects how housing is given out, how it is managed and administered. Could I get from the Minister, apart from the Shelter Policy, is there any intent on the part of the Housing Corporation to do a comprehensive northern housing policy review? Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, we see the Shelter Policy as doing an overall territorial housing review on all the different aspects of housing. As I mentioned a couple of times, we are actually doing a rent scale review. We are doing an evaluation of the whole Housing Choices program and those are just a couple of components. We see the Shelter Policy as an overall review on a go-forward basis on the delivery of anything housing in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, we have heard many comments from Members, as we have gone through our statements and questions today, about things that are not working relative to the way the Housing Corporation operates and the relationships between the corporation and the people that are in housing, things like very large arrears, things like housing suitability in terms of number of bedrooms where you don’t have three bedrooms when you get your kids back. It doesn’t sound to me like a Shelter Policy is going to encompass the actual on-the-ground management of some of these guidelines. Could I get a better explanation from the Minister of what exactly the Shelter Policy entails? Does it go to those kinds of details to which I am referring? Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, the Shelter Policy is going to be a component of the overall social policy framework. It will outline our housing responses to specific community-inclined groups. It is going to encompass anything to do with housing. This is what we see as a bit of an operating manual for the future of the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation, and how we can best respond to all the concerns that are raised by Members and by the public, and a few of the issues that the Member raised specifically will be ones, obviously, that will be part of the whole overall policy. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. McLeod. Final, short supplementary, Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Thanks to the Minister. I certainly look forward to seeing that Shelter Policy. If it is going to include the detail to which the Minister is referring, then it will be a valuable document and it will hopefully remove many of the roadblocks that our residents are encountering in regards to their housing.
I would like to ask the Minister if he can tell me when that Shelter Policy in all its detail will be available. Thank you.
Mr. Speaker, we are just in the process of developing the framework for it now. It is a comprehensive piece of work and it is going to take a lot of research. My best guess would be that may be something that is ready for the beginning of the 17th Assembly. There is a lot of work.
We obviously have heard a lot of issues concerning housing today, and not just today but every day in all of the communities we go to. We have to be sure. We have heard from Members on what they thought of the different policies, how certain things didn’t work and we want to make sure that we get a policy in place that answers and deals with all of the questions that the Members have raised. We want to make sure that this is one that is going to be done absolutely right before we even release it. Thank you.
Mahsi, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following document entitled Annual Report on Official Languages, 2009-2010. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Lafferty. The honourable Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment, Mr. Bob McLeod.
TABLED DOCUMENT 103-15(6):
GNWT CONTRACTS OVER $5,000 REPORT,
Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document entitled Government of the Northwest Territories Contracts Over $5,000 Report, Year Ending March 31, 2010. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I give notice that on Monday, November 1, 2010, I will move the following motion: Now therefore I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Great Slave, that the Legislative Assembly recommends that the NWT Housing Corporation change its programs guidelines in order to provide responsive and meaningful flexibility;
And further, that the proposed changes to guidelines should allow for the transition period, such as a gradual increase of the rent, for these tenants;
And furthermore, that the Government of the Northwest Territories shall provide a comprehensive response to this motion within 120 days.
Mr. Speaker, at the appropriate time, I will be seeking unanimous consent to deal with the motion today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Jacobson. Item 16, notices of motion for first reading of bills. Item 17, motions. The honourable Member for Weledeh, Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I seek unanimous consent to deal with Motion 19-16(5), Reduction of NWT Housing Corporation Maximum Rental Rate, which I gave notice of on Wednesday, October 27, 2010. Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
WHEREAS adequate and affordable housing is the most important concern of many Northerners;
AND WHEREAS without adequate, affordable and accessible housing, individuals and families lack the basis for healthy living, successful educational participation, security of employment and participation as full members in the economies, health and development of our communities;
AND WHEREAS the NWT Housing Corporation’s program guidelines set a rent scale which can result in a rental rate of 30 percent of assessed gross income and which normally results in rent comprising more than 40 percent of low net incomes;
AND WHEREAS other provinces and territories use different guidelines, such as 25 percent of assessed gross income;
AND WHEREAS the use of the 30 percent of assessed gross income guidelines for determination of rental rates can result in the levying of excessive and debilitating rents, especially upon low income earners;
AND WHEREAS difficulties in the reporting and assessment of rent can result in immediate rental increases and accumulation of arrears;
AND WHEREAS public housing tenants with rental arrears are ineligible to apply for homeownership assistance programs, which further prevents their transition from public to owned housing;
AND WHEREAS the Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation is undertaking a review of the Public Housing Program and other programs and policies of the NWT Housing Corporation;
NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Mackenzie Delta, that this Legislative Assembly recommends that the NWT Housing Corporation reduce the rent scale so the maximum rental rate is 25 percent of assessed gross income.
Mahsi.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. The motion is on the floor. Before I open the motion to debate, the Chair is going to call a short break, then we will come back and debate it.
---SHORT RECESS
We have a motion on the floor. The motion is in order. To the motion. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are unquestionably many issues to grapple with in the area of public housing, as the Minister well understands, at least by the end of today. I’m sure he knew about this before and I admit that these are often complex issues and difficult to move forward on. I’ve given great consideration, paid very close attention to the issues brought forward to me by my constituents and others. I’ve settled with my colleague in bringing forward this motion on a reduction of 30 to 25 percent of the rent as a maximum.
I think perhaps the best way to portray this is simply to go over an example looking at the numbers. So I’d like to start by saying the combined gross monthly income of two minimum wage employees is about $3,120 per month. Rent on that income at 30 percent is $940. The net income after deductions is $2,500. So once their rent is paid they have about $1,550 to live on for the whole month. In the case I mentioned, there were seven in the family. That’s about $220 a month to meet the needs of each person. A pretty modest amount.
Now consider the same situation at a rent scale of 25 percent. Rent on their gross income would be $780 rather than $940, leaving them an extra $160 a month to live on. One hundred sixty dollars may not seem like a lot to the average NWT family, which our statistics show is making about $100,000, but the people in public housing are not average. They live across a huge gap in income that is getting wider and wider each year.
Milk in Yellowknife costs about $2.50 a litre. That extra $160 is the equivalent of 50 more litres of milk a month. In our smaller communities where milk is five or more dollars a litre, it can make the difference between milk every couple of days and enough to meet each day’s needs. It might make the difference between presents or no presents at Christmas.
When we think about it, a reduction to 25 percent is little enough. This government sets the minimum wage scale, which is going up to about $10 an hour, but the minimum wage does not reflect the government’s belief that it’s enough to live on. The government recognizes that public housing must be provided so people can have shelter when the minimum wage can’t buy it for them. That’s an example of our interlocking system of programs and policies to help those most in need. Government’s recognition of the need to coordinate program policies to meet real conditions is the reason for adjusting the rent scale from 30 to 25 percent. Thirty percent simply isn’t sufficient to ease that hardship.
When people struggle to improve their conditions and get work, rather than relying on completely subsidized housing, we need to help them through with our policies. Moving the rent scale from 30 to 25 percent is a good step in tuning up that help, and on that basis I moved and will support this motion.
Again, Mr. Speaker, while many housing issues will require a range of responsibilities and the opportunity for flexibility in interpreting which is the most appropriate response, this is an example of an across-the-board, straightforward policy change that can help every public housing client in this situation. On that basis, again, I look forward to any other comments from my colleagues on both sides of the House and I will be prepared to give some closing remarks. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. To the motion. The honourable Member for the Mackenzie Delta, Mr. Krutko.
